Smuggler Archive
Thread: Revamp Discussion: Overview
OdiousEncounter
Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:32 pm
#53
GreenMarine wrote:
As for sidekick... are we talking an NPC or some kind of benefit we can bestow on a person? Maybe both?
Sidekick is probably the last thing I'll post about...many weeks from now. I still have lots of ideas to think about. I posted it on the list to get more conversation stirring. I have ideas for either an NPC style sidekick or a player style sidekick. The idea is that a smuggler is a lonely profession, you can't trust anyone. Through many years of smuggling, eventually the smuggler will meet someone they can trust. Someone who can watch their back. Han had Chewy. Lando had Lobot. This isn't to generalize that all smugglers have to have a sidekick, but its certainly a profession where an extra set of eyes pays off in the end.
Sidekick is an optional idea we can develop. Enhancing the core profession takes priority over implementing a sidekick system and so it might not be something we have time for. Doesn't hurt to brainstorm and see if we can design something that is doable, though.
Was somewhat ironic when i got smuggler for my holocron, me being a male human and my best friend being a male wookiee.
HA-SuperNaut
Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:34 pm
#54
GreenMarine;
Sounds all fine and dandy, but please do not take away my ability to buy Faction.
lees
Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:45 pm
#55
GreenMarine:
I sit back and look at all the things you have said and your staff from all the prof's and i love the idea of the smuggler getting some love but my main question is this,
Are you going to give as much love as the chef got? or are you going to give as much love as the CH got.
CH is the most pothedic prof's and from some one thats mastered it i can say it scares me when you say the word revamp. I am not attempting to be nagitive i just cant help but to look at the past and say hmm.
ONE-ARM
Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:45 pm
#56
Smuggling bounties...
How bout relating this with faction...
High Jabba Faction... Tatooine Terms less likely to show you
Low Nym Faction... Lok More Likely to show you
Etc Etc? Also making sure that smugglers either have more power to fight BHers OR giving them more Skillpoint room to become fighters (That idea GreenMarine was talking about any basic skill set...)
How bout relating this with faction...
High Jabba Faction... Tatooine Terms less likely to show you
Low Nym Faction... Lok More Likely to show you
Etc Etc? Also making sure that smugglers either have more power to fight BHers OR giving them more Skillpoint room to become fighters (That idea GreenMarine was talking about any basic skill set...)
Istin
Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:49 pm
#57
Huzzah, even better than one designer for one day, we get one designer for a bunch of days =) (relating to a previous post in this forum).
Ok, first of all. If I think I have a really unique ideathat would be beneficail to this revamp, and want it in your face to make sure you read it, should I PM you (greenmarine) or just post in the smuggler forum.
Since it seems everyone's just throwing out ideas, as if we didn't already have enough in this forum, I'll throw out mine (thinking off the top of my head, I'm sure most of it's been thought of already)
1) Contraband rules
Should definately be a bit stricter than they are now. If oyu have contraband on you, and are not a smuggler, you should have like a 90% chance of being caught and fined (if imp, turned overt if reb). Also, having a high rank as an imp SHOULD count. If I were a corporal in the army, I'd sure as heck be reluctant to pat down a captain. As smugglers we obviously should get a scan evasion mod, and need it documented in the skill boxes.
2) Smuggling Missions
Fine idea. Oh, and the more you do, the more visibility you gain for BH terminal, much like the current jedi bounties, but with less bugs 
2/3) Smuggling missions + Underworld skills
These NEED to be related. Much like BH with investigation, I'd like to have smuggling XP or somesuch(can't think of any good names) that is required to go up the underworld tree. Personally, the underworld skills are only underutilized by the non-aligned smugglers. Losing less fp in PvP is AMAZING, especially since I tend to die alot. Buying fp is very useful, although it is TERRIBLY inconvenient. I'll have to wait for jtl to decide whether the other underworld skills are useful, depending on how good it really is (still a skeptic) these may become useful.
2/4) Smuggling missions + Spice crafting
There was a great suggestion integrating these two a few days ago on the forum. Creative, involving, and moreover it would feel like smuggling. Obviously, spices need to be revamped. It would be great to have a system where you had to utilize npcs to obtain spice rather than crating it. It would also be great to have more than 2 spices that are used in the game. You did the chef revamp green, so I'll let YOU throw out some ideas for these, since you'll know what will and wha won't tread on the chefs "territory".
5) Slicing
I'm fine with it atm. However, there have been a few suggestions. I like the tinkering/personal weapon suggestion. Smuggling is risky by nature, so I think we should keep the current not-being-able-to-choose system in place. However, at master, it would satisfy a LOT of people to have a smaller/higher range of slices. Like have armor effect/speed/damage go from 20-35% and encumb 25-45% at master. Another suggestion is to be able to slice individual ship parts so if you slice EVERY part that goes into a ship, it will have much higher capabilities than an "unsliced" ship. The banking terminal/safety deposit box would go very far towards satisfying peoplewhile being a relatively simple piece of code. Slicing travel terminals to get an insant ticket for someone would be great too.
6) Dirty Fighting
ugh, this is gonna take a godly amount of time to figure out if we start talking about changing pre-reqs. I won't even address it until you tell us what's possible/feasible to do with the pre-req system. If everyone just saves their ideas about this, we could avoid a lot of forum clutter.
7) Player casinos
.......umm....... Not really sure where you could possibly be going with this but I have an idea or two. Let smuggler be able to place casinos/hotels in cities, like docs get med centers and entertainers get cantinas. Next, have achitect crafted game machines put in the game. Smugglers can buy said game machines and then "set" the odds of each. Based on the odds set, a player could win or lose money. If the smuggler sets the odds in favor of the player too much, he/she starts losing money from the game machine maintenance pool, and the player will keep playing so they can keep winning. If thesmuggler sets the odds in favor of the player too low, the player plays a few times, then walks away. Money can be put intoor taken out of the game machine maintenance pool by the smuggler. The system needs to be dynamic enough that the smuggler can set effective odds for drawing people in. I've personally TRIED the current game machines and they are BORING as heck. I don't really know why, maybe there needs to be art/graphics for the roulette wheel and other machinesor something. Also, have there be pachaak games (or whatever that game is called, I saw TH mention it for jtl, I think) games with player vs player on casinao/hotel only tables.
8) Sidekick
.....umm.... Not sure, again. I don't know how this could effectively be placed in with much content. Maybe have it like a smuggler pet, like a faction pet. But those npcs are pretty useless atm. My imperial medic has a tedency to heal me when I have full HAM bars, but won't heal when I ask or am about to die. FAR too much room for bugs to slip in here.
Hope the colors made this a bit easier to read =/
scornnok
Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:03 pm
#58
The side kick would be our body guard as well a possibly being our mule for contraband and faction points? They should actually be a tough cookie ( no not wookie...lol) Not sure how strong they should be. With bounty hunters coming after us though we do want to be able to come out alive. We don't want to just be able to say sic'em and not have to worry about the BH either.
Istin wrote:
8) Sidekick
.....umm.... Not sure, again. I don't know how this could effectively be placed in with much content. Maybe have it like a smuggler pet, like a faction pet. But those npcs are pretty useless atm. My imperial medic has a tedency to heal me when I have full HAM bars, but won't heal when I ask or am about to die. FAR too much room for bugs to slip in here.
Hope the colors made this a bit easier to read =/
DrevenStrobe
Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:08 pm
#59
I, for one, could do with less "pets" in this game...especially if they'll just be more ineffectual cannon fodder.
And that's all I'll say about the idea of "sidekicks" for now.
As for the rest, I've got a few ideas on Slicing and such, but I'll wait until focus threads are posted, so I don't have to end up retyping stuff or copy/pasting the same stuff again...
Rogue135
Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:11 pm
#60
Slicing... this is where I make my lively-hood, nearly every credit I've got on me I made from slicing, so you can see why this is easily what I'm most concerned about. Please, tell me youplanto keep slicing random, not relying on looking for the best resources to make our tools or skill tapes. It's bad enough to see people advertising 99% tools now at overwhelming prices when it doesn't even matter, I hate to see how bad it would be if they actually produce better results.
Underworld and Spices I'm interested to see what you have planned too, but they're not really anything I'm "worried" about. Dirty Fighting, doesn't really bother me either, but what you've said about making it not pistol-dependant is a little strange... I'd hate to see a Rifleman spamming Last Ditch.
The casino and sidekicks seem interesting, I can't wait to hear what else you have planned for them.
Until the revamp, I'm sure I speak for everyone when I ask, can we at least get some notes in the boxes, specifically about our scan evasion (we do get that... right?) and slicing bonus at Master?
Crystalis_Jedi
Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:17 pm
#61
My design proposal:
Contraband Rules
Contraband as defined now is great. Sliced equipment and spices are and should remain illegal items. However, I think "dummy" items should be given by missions. These items are of no use to the player other than to deliever via smuggling, and should be considered contraband by default.
Scans should happen just like they do now, but I think it should also expand into space. Lager imperial ships should be able to scan any and all passing-by ships for illegal cargo. Smugglers can ethier "stash" the cargo or jettison it, at the expense of the mission giving NPC, of course. This could lead to some interesting predicaments, including bounties placed on the terminals...
Of course, a smuggler's skills and fast-talking should give a bonus to surface scans.. but in space it should be up to the players to purposely avoid and "sneak" past imperial ships for safe passage.
Contraband as defined now is great. Sliced equipment and spices are and should remain illegal items. However, I think "dummy" items should be given by missions. These items are of no use to the player other than to deliever via smuggling, and should be considered contraband by default.
Scans should happen just like they do now, but I think it should also expand into space. Lager imperial ships should be able to scan any and all passing-by ships for illegal cargo. Smugglers can ethier "stash" the cargo or jettison it, at the expense of the mission giving NPC, of course. This could lead to some interesting predicaments, including bounties placed on the terminals...
Of course, a smuggler's skills and fast-talking should give a bonus to surface scans.. but in space it should be up to the players to purposely avoid and "sneak" past imperial ships for safe passage.
Smuggling Missions
Here's where the meat of the profession comes into play. This will be the primary source of smuggling XP, as well as a healthy flow of cash if done right. If not done right, however, there can be dire consequences (after all, who wants a crime lord after them for blood?). Missions can range from "deliever cargo to destination" (contraband, of course) to "'aquire' documents/information from specific person". These missions should either be a mix of space (you can't transport cargo on standard shuttles...) or just ground-based. I don't know how feasible it is, but spawning simple "bunkers" from which to "aquire" goods from would be neat, and add a bit of flavor to the missions as well.
The delievery missions should break into two types. Retrieval missions were the NPC sends you to retrieve and return to the NPC unscathed, and package missions where the NPC gives you an item to deliever to another NPC.
The retrieval missions should futher break into "NPC to NPC" and "player to NPC". An example of the latter, a crime boss wants a"modified" scatter pistol.The smuggler must then seek out a player or vendor, aquire a scatter pistol, then slice it and return it safely to the boss. The "NPC to NPC" could also involved the above mentioned "aquisation" of items from a spawned structure. It could even involve interactive dialoge, or offering spice to 'persude' an NPC into giving up the desired item.
As a smuggler completes missions, he will gain respect from various NPCs. The more respect, the more rewarding (and deadly) the missions available to the player. If a player repeatedly fails missions (or fails a high-cost mission), the player can and will have a mark placed on them. A players underworld skills should determine how powerful their bosses can be. Higher skills means access to more powerful bosses.
Here's where the meat of the profession comes into play. This will be the primary source of smuggling XP, as well as a healthy flow of cash if done right. If not done right, however, there can be dire consequences (after all, who wants a crime lord after them for blood?). Missions can range from "deliever cargo to destination" (contraband, of course) to "'aquire' documents/information from specific person". These missions should either be a mix of space (you can't transport cargo on standard shuttles...) or just ground-based. I don't know how feasible it is, but spawning simple "bunkers" from which to "aquire" goods from would be neat, and add a bit of flavor to the missions as well.
The delievery missions should break into two types. Retrieval missions were the NPC sends you to retrieve and return to the NPC unscathed, and package missions where the NPC gives you an item to deliever to another NPC.
The retrieval missions should futher break into "NPC to NPC" and "player to NPC". An example of the latter, a crime boss wants a"modified" scatter pistol.The smuggler must then seek out a player or vendor, aquire a scatter pistol, then slice it and return it safely to the boss. The "NPC to NPC" could also involved the above mentioned "aquisation" of items from a spawned structure. It could even involve interactive dialoge, or offering spice to 'persude' an NPC into giving up the desired item.
As a smuggler completes missions, he will gain respect from various NPCs. The more respect, the more rewarding (and deadly) the missions available to the player. If a player repeatedly fails missions (or fails a high-cost mission), the player can and will have a mark placed on them. A players underworld skills should determine how powerful their bosses can be. Higher skills means access to more powerful bosses.
Underworld Skills
This entire tree should require smuggling xp. Each box would grant access to a more powerful crime boss, bonuses to avoiding detection scans on planets, and abilities such as "hidden panels" (which hide cargo temporarily in space to avoid scans). Also, as skills increase, certifications to use "modifications" on ships should be added. These modifications, like the above "hidden panels", would improve smuggling in space, or even add a little engine boost to ship speeds. These mods can be used on the smuggler's vessel, or when consented, another player's vessel. These mods can be crafted by either artisans or shipwrights, applied by smugglers, and will wear off after a certain amount of time. Maybe we could see vehicle mods as well.
Spice Crafting
Personally, aside from seeing a few more spices added to the lineup, this tree looks good. I would at least make experimentation affect the values, as well as some inter-crafter dependancies. Such as the food additives chefs use. Spices could usefood additives as well. Maybe even a new one to lessen the effects of the downers.
Personally, aside from seeing a few more spices added to the lineup, this tree looks good. I would at least make experimentation affect the values, as well as some inter-crafter dependancies. Such as the food additives chefs use. Spices could usefood additives as well. Maybe even a new one to lessen the effects of the downers.
Slicing
Slicing works well as is now, but the effectiveness of the slice should depend on tool quality as well as slicing skill. Also, the ability to choose the type of slice would be a well recieved bonus to either level 4 slicing or the master box. Also the ability to slice vehicles or ships would be nice, if the above proposal is reachable, then I'd much rather see that. Slicing should also play a part in some missions. Such as an aquisation mission, you could slice a door terminal to gain access to a room you couldn't before. Slicing a safe or lockbox to gain access to the mission objective, or in dungeons in caves, you could slice locked boxes to get the goods inside.
Slicing works well as is now, but the effectiveness of the slice should depend on tool quality as well as slicing skill. Also, the ability to choose the type of slice would be a well recieved bonus to either level 4 slicing or the master box. Also the ability to slice vehicles or ships would be nice, if the above proposal is reachable, then I'd much rather see that. Slicing should also play a part in some missions. Such as an aquisation mission, you could slice a door terminal to gain access to a room you couldn't before. Slicing a safe or lockbox to gain access to the mission objective, or in dungeons in caves, you could slice locked boxes to get the goods inside.
Dirty Fighting
A smuggler was never meant to be a front man warrior. Actually, a smuggler would much rather avoid a fight whenever possible. Yet, due to the nature of the beast, danger does follow, and as such, a smuggler should be prepared to end the engagement as quickly, and safely, as possible. Skills should focus on low damage, high control; such as knockdowns, knockouts, and any other means to escape certain death.
You need at least one knockdown, preferable two. Both low or no damage. One ranged and one melee, to give the smuggler a few options.
You also need some temporary "escape" manuevers. Things thatcoulddisable an enemy like warcry, where if they're attacked the effect is broken. You could have an advanced version where thetarget istemporarily knocked out, yet cannot be engaged in combat(similar to the smuggler's feigndeath), which would allow a smuggler to remove a threat from combat until it can be dealt with properly, or even to allow ample time to escape. The current abilities of the smuggler should remain, be fixed up, and rearranged in the skill tree to make room for newer and potentially more powerful abilities.
Player Casinos
Player casinos can include machines created by artisans, but must be placed by a smuggler with the proper underworld skills. Only higher level smugglers should be able to effective run the higher machines and table, as experience would teach them how to make the best use of them. In order to compensate for the increased earnings a smuggler might recieve, machines placed inside a structure should increase that structures maintainence costs. Also, high flow of credits would eventually reach the ears of more influencial casino owners, who would not want competition ruining their business. Thus, a smuggler could end up on the bounty terminals for generating too much revenue from the machines. Also, as the smuggler increasing in skill, he could slice the machines he places to adjust the payouts, and chances of jackpot. Basic cost to play can be set with novice smuggler. All things accounted for, this allows the smuggler to control just how much revenue the machines will generate.
As a rule, any machine or table would have it's own credit storage, and they all start at zero. The machines, revenue, and jackpots would be all dependant on player credits, with the smuggler recieving a percentage or his choice (from 0% to 50%).
As a rule, any machine or table would have it's own credit storage, and they all start at zero. The machines, revenue, and jackpots would be all dependant on player credits, with the smuggler recieving a percentage or his choice (from 0% to 50%).
Option: Sidekick
A smuggler's sidekick should also be a smuggler himself, even if just novice. When you select a sidekick, whenever you are in range of each other, you should both recieve bonuses to avoiding detection, combat ability boosts, and an easier time in some missions. When sidekicked, you should be automatically grouped (or invited to the same group as the other) at all times when in range. Also, being a sidekick isn't without it's risks, as the sidekick can recieve "kickback" from his buddy when a mission fails and a bounty is issued. The sidekick just might end up on the terminals, too.
Feel free to add to that, as it's just a rough draft and some ideas I've been tossing in my head. I skimmed over most of the speicific details, as this is simply a design document.
RozhlokLightningskull
Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:31 pm
#62
GreenMarine wrote:
Nolan, I'll read the link, but my current design for smuggler quests & changes to the contraband system will give a lot of content for bounty hunters. I'll post info on it soon. Tonight or tomorrow night. I want to pass over my stuff a couple of times first.
Smuggler bounties...and bounties on other professions that use contraband...would be a side effect of the changes to the contraband and specifically for smugglers, slicing & smuggler quest systems.
Message Edited by GreenMarine on 06-14-2004 02:16 PM
Just when I was ready to post a reply to JustG's post in the BH forum crucifing the guy for saying, "hopefully" you'll have your Jedi tracking bug fixed by P9 you come in and rescue the whole dev team. If I had a fertile womb and was a woman I would have your babies.... errr... well maybe not.... weeelllll... hmmmm. Let us never speak of this again.
BeigeKnight
Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:31 pm
#63
Sidekick eh? I've been hoping for the ole "wookie life-debt" but my lack of combat skills keep me from saving anything
BobbyJack
Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:34 pm
#64
As far as removing a smugglers dependency on the pistol how about making all prereqs for smuggler under combat XP and move the decimal over so it's 10 percent of the current numbers. Same goes for the skill tree itself, make it combat XP at 10percent of whatever the current pistol XP requirements are. That way players can pick and chose whatever weapon they want for smuggler profession.
Then offer a general ranged and general melee dirty fighting moves that work with all ranged or melee weapons, such as a KD, big hitting special..etc.Then we'd be completely free of the pistol, or we could continuing using it like we do now.
sweatyclimber
Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:46 pm
#65
GM-
great to see you posting in this proffession which needs your help. While I'm not a smuggler myself I've always felt that they needed a revamp and their role to be improved and if done properly it could really help rp when desired. One thing I would like to point out is that with the smuggler revamp PLEASE SCHEDUAL ENOUGH TIME. I say this because I see the smuggler revamp a chance to revamp a lot of other proffesions in how they relate to smugglers. I see it as a great way to add content to the whole game while improving a potentially great proffession. I am a mayor and entertainer. But just as you were saying BH's would be affected by smugglers, I can see entertainers and politicians affected if the time was put forth. For instance a player city friendly to the scum and villany that is the smugglers and BH's world might not be liked by the empire but really impart good effects to those afformentioned. Also in regards to the entertainers, a cantina is the life blood for contracting smugglers/ BH's and for them to find good information on marks or where to go and where not to go. So in summary please make enough time to do this proffession the best way you can which in turn would also help the entertainers/ politicians and bountyhunters. As for what you mentioned about taking it away from pistols I agree. I almost think it should be a novice prof but with a dif. req. like politician had (not ap tho). A smuggler smuggles, the skills they learn to help them along the way such as how to operate a starship (since its post jtl) or shoot a gun is something seperate that they learn. This would also help runsabres desire to make more things unique. I have many more specifics on this and how it could work but don't want to flood your thread which prolly will be already