Smuggler Archive
Thread: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
JTGAlpha
Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:40 am
#612
Okay...FIRST OF ALL:
On player inconvenience:
No matter WHAT happens if something is illegal and that law is enforced, people who use and/or depend on said product are going to be inconvenienced. They're going to have to GIVE UP said item or take their chances, either with us, on their own, or both. There's no way getting around that.
Prediction: All of the above will happen. Some will stop using slices and spices. Some will just roll the dice. Others will just ask us to help.
SECOND OF ALL:
On Forced PvP: It's not forced. You run the RISK of PvP if you let your visibillity get to high. YES it will self correct and that could take time. How much is adjustable. And I'm sorry if that doesn't appeal to you but this game has time sinks, and before you go complaining about how long this one will be, we don't know how long it will be and it can always be shortened or lengthened. So slow your roll playa.
The OTHER way, which every opponent of this system has neglected, is by PAYING US to remove them from the list.
ALSO, if you don't want to wrack up MORE visibillity, we can simply escort you (smuggle you) from starport to the next. Maybe call us later and if we like you will get you back home. So...that's TWO ways in this system to avoid PvP as a civillian.
So...here's the general GREAT day for a smuggler.
Cust: Hey, can you slice this for me.
Smugg: Sure. 35% damage. X credits please.
Cust: Cool. Hey, how much for a crate of spice.
Smugg. X credits more.
Cust: Sweet. Deal. Oh, can you check the BH terminal to see if I'm getting close to a bounty or have one?
Smugg: Sure. Gonna cost you X.
Cust.: No problem.
Smugg: Bad news you got a bounty onyou.
Cust: think you can take care of that?
Smugg: Yep. X credits.
Smugg: Yep. X credits.
Cust: Lol You rule, but man you're gettin' all my money!
Smugg: It's what we're here for. /wink. By the way, want me to escort you into the Starport and to the next one for X credits to keep that visibillity at zero? I'm a master smuggler and have a 95% (or whatever) chance.
Cust: Sure! That'd be great. How about for Y credits?
Smugg: You're a good customer, sure. Y it is. Ready?
Nothing's forced. Unless the smuggler either fails the BH terminal slices, or gets caught in the Starport. Whole scenario takes however long it takes to slice a weapon, slice a terminal twice. Doesn't sound that bad to me.
KardenTyrell
Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:44 am
#613
/me bring a big cup of coffee for GreenMarine
You'll need it reading through all these pages
Ryutek
Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:46 am
#614
JTG,
I may be misunderstanding you, or I may be misunderstanding what some people are saying, but I don't think there is argument on consequences anymore, just on how to retain the player's choice about whether to participate in a PvP encounter.
SOE has always stated that it is the Player's choice to participate in PvP, and so a solution along the lines of the "PvE / PvP Flag" in an options screen is the most viable.
Yes, the consequences must be there, but the consequences can come from NPCs or PCs.
If I misunderstood you just ignore me, I'm at work so I could easily have misread 
Ternque01
Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:47 am
#615
KardenTyrell wrote:
/me bring a big cup of coffee for GreenMarine
You'll need it reading through all these pages
We're sorry, but caffiene has be now declared quasi-illegal. *beats up KardenTyrell*
Ha Ha, just kidding. Damn I can't wait until things are ACTUALLY illegal!!! *giggles like a little girl* */edit giggles like a fat, greasy smuggler*
DRWolfe
Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:50 am
#616
Ryutek wrote:JTG,I may be misunderstanding you, or I may be misunderstanding what some people are saying, but I don't think there is argument on consequences anymore, just on how to retain the player's choice about whether to participate in a PvP encounter.SOE has always stated that it is the Player's choice to participate in PvP, and so a solution along the lines of the "PvE / PvP Flag" in an options screen is the most viable.Yes, the consequences must be there, but the consequences can come from NPCs or PCs.If I misunderstood you just ignore me, I'm at work so I could easily have misread
Just check out the PvE/PvP Flag solution that's been worked on here. It's a good idea, really.
JTGAlpha
Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:58 am
#617
The inconvenience thing was finishing off my discussion last night. The PvP/PvE thing is discussed in the second part of my post.
Ipseck
Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:59 am
#618
also, they could potentially take an approach much like the one they took for Jedi.. Make the pvp portion of it content driven. ie, better merchandise for delivering/higher paying missions/higher stakes for the folks that decide to take the challenge and let the folks who just want to run missions, run missions. They need some sort of consequence though for being criminals.
Limbonik
Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:59 am
#619
Thanks for the 1-star, jackass. Sorry I wanted to get in touch with someone I thought might be a friend from my past. No worries, like always I will just spam my question everytime it's 1-starred until I know GM sees it. Thank you, drive thru please.
Limbonik wrote:
Sorry for the hijack everyone, but I just now noticed the name....
GreenMarine: Are you the same greenmarine from #uED and #unreal-ed waaaaaay back, by any chance?
silversaber
Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:59 am
#620
Ryutek wrote:
JTG,
I may be misunderstanding you, or I may be misunderstanding what some people are saying, but I don't think there is argument on consequences anymore, just on how to retain the player's choice about whether to participate in a PvP encounter.
SOE has always stated that it is the Player's choice to participate in PvP, and so a solution along the lines of the "PvE / PvP Flag" in an options screen is the most viable.
Yes, the consequences must be there, but the consequences can come from NPCs or PCs.
If I misunderstood you just ignore me, I'm at work so I could easily have misread
I agree with this.
But unfortunatly, many playerscome to a erronious conclusion that, unless the consequences are PvP in nature, there are no consequences at all.
It is that mindset that I challenge as utter BS, and reject completely.
KruddMan
Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:14 am
#621
Ah! Fake ID crafting! That'd be great!
Just one method of getting past patrols and landing in starports safely.
The expirementation/quality level would be how likely it is to be noticed as a fake.
I like the idea of Bothans getting bonuses in these types of things too. Bonus to Fake ID Experimentation. Makes sense to me.
I feel that sliced weapons should not be considered contraband, or give much visibilty at all, because wouldn't it take some skill in slicing to recognize that the item has been sliced? They'd have to open the weapon and examine it.
I've posted in this thread earlier that I'm against forced PVP just for taking part in smuggling missions, but I'm all for increased risk and danger. I'd love to be hunted by NPC bounty hunters, even ones I'd have to run away from 'cause they're so uber.
It'd be cool to be chased by the same UberNPC bounty hunter all over the galaxy. Relentlessly pursuing you through space and showing up in your favorite cantina.
If it were a player character doing this to me... I'd just be annoyed and frustrated. There is no end to players. You can't KILL them, really. When they die they clone and come back and may hunt you again some day. There's no way to get them off your back, permanently.
RellikCro
Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:14 am
#622
Rueger_Karde wrote:
I'm not talking about the relative equalness of PvE vs PvP. Im talking about just straight risk vs reward. I never said PvP was better, in fact I dont really do it that much, I do it only to defend my PAs base. Thats about it. Hell, im a pistoleer so you can guess how well I do.
Alright, to keep from going in circles, lets focus down a little bit.
Now, which are you arguing the most (we all have things we want, but pick one) the fact that smugglers shouldn't be forced into PvP or that the basic citizen shouldn't be forced into PvP.
Then we can discuss that aspect of the contraband system and its effects of each playstyle.
Actually forced PvP on any playstyle.I respect all professions and all playstyles, there is always a way to come up with a solution that will meet the widest playerbase playstyles and respect them.
I even respect the BH's wanting to have player bounties and we even came up with a solution that seemed very plausable to work all around and give smugglers the choice to partake in PvP or PvE and the ability to switch back and forth if they find out they do not like one or the other playstyle. This would also give BH's their player bounties... would this be what everyone wanted exactly? No... but it is a fair and balanced compromised for the majority of players and their playstyles.
Rueger_Karde
Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:24 am
#623
Even though I was trying to get a conceptual idea of "why you dont like this blah blah blah" so maybe we could figure out some more solutions, looks like it aint gonna happen because you wont work with me...
I have to say I dont like the idea of the screen popping up "Please pick how you will be attacked". Kinda loose a little emersiveness, which is really the point of this revamp in the first place.
The checking of the box someplace in profiles is better, but still reminds me of someone slapping a "kick me with a player" or "kick me with a non player" sign on my back.
The best idea so far seems to be HOW you have modled your character. So, you take the room on the left, the PvP room. Now players can attack you. Take the room on the right, only NPCs can attack you. Unfortunatly (as a modetsly skilled programmer) I have a strange feeling this could be difficult (I could be wrong). So in case it is just too much, I have been stewing on another idea...
Crap, I had it while posting, but lost it, dont worry, it was good. Be back in a few, (I think I need a bowl....of cereal).
KruddMan
Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:24 am
#624
Ah! Fake ID crafting!
Just one way to get past patrols and land in starports.
Experimentation/quality level could determine effectiveness of ID.
Bothans could get bonuses to Fake ID experimentation. Makes sense to me.
I have mentioned earlier in this thread that I'm against forced PVP for taking part in smuggler missions, though I do like the idea of increased risk and danger. I'd love to be hunted down by NPC bounty hunters. Even ones i'd have to flee from.
It'd be cool to be hunted by a single uber NPC bounty hunter. Relentlessly following you through space and showing up in your favorite cantina. Maybe offering you the chance to come with him alive and pay back what you owe to whomever.
While, if I was being followed around by a player bounty hunter... everywhere I go, everything I do... it'd get pretty frustrating. You can put them on ignore, but they're still there, even if you kill em.