Smuggler Archive

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Mozinski wrote:

I had a dream..well, more like a vision of getting to play a gung ho smuggler when I first heard about this game way back when, so naturally when it came out, I jumped right in to working my way to Master Smuggler....

I also dreamed of being a Smuggler and scooting through security check points and evading Imperial Scans. It was a dream to be offered that in a game, hopefully this will deliver that feeling.

skip the long storyline and fast foward nearly 1 year later.....

I am still a smuggler and will always be a smuggler and am very excited about what I am reading in this thread. The only issue, suggestion, recommendation (what ever you want to call it) is that smugglers be given not better fighting skills, but skills that will allow them to get out of a sticky situation. This may have been brought up many times as I will admit I have problems sitting through 27 pages of alot of repetitive statements in most threads of this nature.

With the changes that willincrease a smugglers "visibility"they need a way to slip through the cracks. After all, Han Solo didn't get Boba Fett off his back by standing toe to toe with him in a blazing round of gunfire....he gotLUCKY! Smugglers by nature are gamblers and risk takers, and luck is a big part of that.

Wasn't Han cough and Ice Cubed? Heh

My idea to incorporate some of this luck into the smuggler proffesion would more or less be a "timed" set of defensive perks. For instance, a Teras Kasi can get incap'd and hit Force of Will to jump back up and get into the fight but can't use it again for I believe an hour (haven't used it too much so I may be off on the time). This would work the same for "luck skills". If a smuggler gets caught in a check point by some nosey stormtroopers, or tracked down by that relentless bounty hunter, let him hit his "luck skill" to increase his chance to get away once the shooting starts, however, once he/she has used his "luck skill" his "visibility" will increase for a period of time and he/she will not be able to use the "luck skill" for another period of time.

Now I'm not saying make the smuggler totally invincable with this "luck skill", but more or less a substantialincrease in some defensive skills (dodge comes to mind right off hand) which will last for a few seconds to give him a chance to escape. Obviously there are holes in this idea. It's not like the smuggler could totally dissappear with targeting arrows and radar screens tracking his every move. Nor could he pull out a bike in the middle of combat and scoot away with the current system. Also I'm sure someone is sitting there thinking "instead of running away, I'll just close in and whack the heck out of of em while I'm in the enhanced defensive state". That one is easy to fix though (he loses the ability to attack as if he hit the "peace" button, and cannot re-engage until the state wears off.

I'm sure there are more flaws in this and I'm sure they'll be posted which is welcomed. This is just an idea for a more "smuggler feel" to certain situations.

Again, I love what I am seeing involving the revamp and can't wait for it to happen!!

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Galin wrote:

Ok, tossing in my thoughts. I have not read through the entire thread, but have read through a good portion of it.

I'm not a PvP'er. I'm not against it, and if everyone was mature about it I might participate, but as it is I'd rather not. I am, however, an RP'er and some of my characters were born to join the Rebellion in their Star Wars incarnation [I've been RP'ing these characters for years]. So I am covert. Sometimes I kill Imps and get a TEF. If someone does happen by and takes a few shots at me [and if you are careful like I am, that isn't as likely to happen], then it's my own fault. I understand the risks, and take them anyway.

I have an aspiring smuggler and I have to say I like the idea of illegal items being (gasp) illegal. The everyday player who carries a sliced gun isn't going to have much to worry about. A fair sized fine or a TEF for killing some Imperials, and a small increase in invisibility that would likely be gone by the time they get scanned again. Carrying highly illegal items, naturally, might get you into more trouble.

Moreover, I like the idea that any player could end up on the BH terminals if they get enough visibility [care would HAVE to be taken to prevent players from being able to put other players on the terminals in any way]. Again, players who are at least a little careful don't have anything to worry about.

The great thing is that several ppl have given great ideas to support your playstyle of PvP&PvE along with my hardcore PvE and hardcore PvP. It is great that some PvE'ers are thinking of participating in smuggler PvP... I think it will be good for some imersion for those playertypes

Also, as I have seen mentioned elsewhere, Image Designers could be used to reduce visibility. The more radical the change, the more visibility reduced... but it only works once in a certain time period.

I liked that idea, it will also bring ID'ers into the GCW without forcing PvP onto them.

Smugglers doing the high paying missions would still be at most risk for getting on the BH terminals.

Its been suggested by a few smugglers that maybe the high end smuggler paying missions could be how you consent to PvP over PvE play. Like you take a job from Jabba and fail to finish the job you would get a PC bounty on your head. This is just one of the ways to respect all sides.

The largest challenge to the developers [and to us] is balacing the risk vs. reward. If the reward is great enough, I'm willing to take a little risk at being hunted down.

We are all willing to take risks, and the risks should jump as the reward does. Just PvP is not the sole answer for "punisment" for failing. That is a great solution for PvP players but a bad idea for hardcore PvE'ers.

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Not much thought in changing or adding things except really one point.

When accepting missions I hope there will be not only danger in working for the suppliers but also upon delivery. An example would be, Working for Lady Valarian on several crates or illegal weapons plus box containing several vials of pure grade spice, glitterstim. This mission is paying rather well due to the planet you are haivng to smuggle the goods to, this being Corellia for example. The bigger problem is who you are delievery these goods to... Swooper Gang members. Your problem is you are not well liked buy this gang. To pull off such a successful score and keep Lady Valarian from showing her displeasure towards you by sending some of her thugs after your hide. You will need a false papers and or a disquise. Having such an item on you while wearing it in say either necklace or bracelet areas would give you a good chance at avoiding detection by the Swoopers to make your delivery and keeping Valarian happy while slipping a few vials of spice into your own pockets for resale once the deal is done.

This would add another layer to smuggling or this would force you to pick your missions more carefully rather then just the highest one you can fine. These Ident-a-cards or disquise would be made by yourself as a Smuggler (Ident-a-cards) or the later which being a disquise would be made by Image Designers. Personally I would prefer Smugglers making their own fake ID's but to keep the game classes more dependant on each other if ID's were called on to do this they would in fact have another way to make money and to expand their classes role in the galaxy, even if it's a darker side of the galaxy. These would be disposiable items that would only last a few uses until they would be uncovered by planetary securtiy or military forces. and a new one would be needed. Such items could be bought in bulk but they to would be classified as illegal on say... medium alert setting, and if found would be taken.

Other then this thought for smuggling goods I have liked what Green Marine has posted so far on this subject and it's depth. On a side note finally glad SOE is taking stronger measures to improve relations with the professions and players. Hopefull this will be seen as a great success when the Smugglers are revamped and well be used from now on throughout changes for the game.

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Ryutek wrote:

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Smuggler_Caylin wrote:

I'm here for a little bit only. Eating popcorn chicken and a 7-11 slurpee before I go back out to face the real world again and try to find someone will pay me for some kind of labor I'm capable of. I'm still on 'break' but this thread captured my interest.

Understood. This thread has been about the only thing that has brought me back into posting and debating again on the forums. Enjoy the time away, it really does help. Anyway, back to "business" I guess.

Ipseck, their arguments are quite valid and they are being quite clear.

PvP the common smuggler is not going to have a chance, while in PvE we have a variety of skills and set mechanics that the player can work with and interact around. I don't want to be killing nunas to have a 3k HAM buffed, composite wearing, pound me in the hindquarters BH come out of nowhere to shoot me in the head and go '**edit** NEWBIE PWNED!' and have my character raped by his pet bantha. I see that mentality too much in this game and I can certainly understand player who don't want to indulge them or even interact with them.

I agree with the sentiment Caylin, and understand the concern very well. However, I also side with Ipseck very strongly, so maybe it is time to look more towards what we can do to accomodate both ideas and not lose immersion. Ternque's idea is a good start, it just needs refining.

This is how I stand:

Having "Visibility" raised for using illegal signifies, to me, consent to a possible PvP encounter. Yes, the playerbase would have to be informed, quite clearly, that this would be a possibility, but that is it.

It seems to me your main concern Caylin is with our progression up the skill tree. The idea of a flag that could be set, preferably through the launchpad options to keep a player form changing it at will in the in-game options, would be the best solution. You could choose what type of encounter you wanted to have when your visibility reached a high point.

I would not go through the headache of seperating the two modifiers, and instead allow the flag to apply to using illegal items as well.

Thoughts?

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The problem I have with your idea is that it again regresses back into PvP again. To have a compromise we can not force players that are unwilling to PvP into an unconsentual PvP enviroment and simply telling them they have to use inferior equipment just makes that gab even wider by implying PvP playstyle players are granted a RIGHT to use the best equipment in the galaxy while PvE playstyle players should not have that right. Do you see the rift you are creating?

We need to find a solution that is acceptable to both parties that grant both parties the ability to use the same equpiment and resources in the game without causing a rift and forcing non-consentual pvp onto a playstyle that has no desire for it. It still all come back down to respecint both sides.

The best solution I have heard is the PvP/PvE "flag" option whether it be in the options control planel or a popup box. Your playstyle is no more important then mine is, it should get no more rewards then mine. You do not play the game better, you do not play it more often, you do not necesairly even excell better at combat. PvP vs. PvE is not about skills, it is not about who plays better, it is not about how much timey ou play the game per week.... it is about playstyles. I, as a PvE, just have a very huge distaste for PvP in any form but that does not mean I am any lessor of a player then you are and everytime I see a post saying that you need to PvP to get this or that or to be able to do this or that you are in fact implying I am a lessor player simply because I do not like PvP. That is what I, and I am sure others, have a problem with.

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RellikCro wrote:

Ok read over all the comments in here and Nerj I can sum up what you said in three words "Disrepsecting my playstyle". Why is it PvP'ers can not grasp the fact (are you all not reading what we are saying or is it that you really have no respect for your fellow players?) that us PvE smugglers (and PvE's in general) would LIKE harsher penalities for spice and slicing and the contraband flowing thru the system. I like the idea of not being able to sell it on vendors.. love it! I love the idea of feeling a danger when I enter a town or city. I love the idea that when I see guards or storm troopers I would be compelled to walk the other way. BUT, and this is where you all start to disrespect our playstyle, we want it in PvE form! Not PvP.

You, and other pro-PvP supporters, keep saying the same disrespectfull bs line on every post: "If you do not like it stop playing the profession you had since day one". No that is not the answer, that will only get a huge backlash from a largely PvE based game which will hurt all smugglers in the end. The solution is not to tell ppl to frig off if they dont like how it is turning out but to come up with a compromise and figure out a solution that will benefit both groups. This again is why having a mixed pve/pvp based playerset is a bad idea in the first place but that is done, we just need to find solutions.

As long as you are going to try to shove the PvP down my throat the harder I am going to work against anykind of PvP at all in any form. The faster the Pro-pvp base realizes that we need to find a compromsing solution the quicker we can work the details out.

Even if GM's vision was to go thru today as is.... the simple fact is the playerbase runs the game and the playerbase is 90% PvE, and they would protest till it got taken out completely. We have seen this with the artisian revamp and other patches put in. Live with that fact and come up with solutions to respect that fact.

Message Edited by RellikCro on 06-17-2004 11:05 AM

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I am sorry you feel I am "disrespecting" your playstyle, I cannot see where in my comments that is taking place. However, play the profession as you see fit, keeping visability low will keep you off of the BH terminals. Don't rip off Jaba and you won't have to worry about BHers coming after you. However, in order to get Phat loot there will have to be PvP bounties, that is why the FRS jedi are going to be overt all the time. That is also why reg Jedi wil show up on terminals. In the RISK vs. REWARD system, please do not limit MY ability to get uber loot without being a JEDI. If one is willing to take the RISK of PvP the REWARD should also be great. If you do not want the REWARD, avoid the RISK. But, do not think that you should have the same level of REWARD without that RISK

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RellikCro wrote:

The problem I have with your idea is that it again regresses back into PvP again. To have a compromise we can not force players that are unwilling to PvP into an unconsentual PvP enviroment and simply telling them they have to use inferior equipment just makes that gab even wider by implying PvP playstyle players are granted a RIGHT to use the best equipment in the galaxy while PvE playstyle players should not have that right. Do you see the rift you are creating?

Where is it regressing into PvP again? Did I not make it clear? You select a flg, and it is PvE or PvP, period. I did state that my personal opinion is that if you choose to use illegal items then you consent, but I did state that as a compromise I would agree to the other route of selcted the flag.

We need to find a solution that is acceptable to both parties that grant both parties the ability to use the same equpiment and resources in the game without causing a rift and forcing non-consentual pvp onto a playstyle that has no desire for it. It still all come back down to respecint both sides.

The best solution I have heard is the PvP/PvE "flag" option whether it be in the options control planel or a popup box. Your playstyle is no more important then mine is, it should get no more rewards then mine. You do not play the game better, you do not play it more often, you do not necesairly even excell better at combat. PvP vs. PvE is not about skills, it is not about who plays better, it is not about how much timey ou play the game per week.... it is about playstyles. I, as a PvE, just have a very huge distaste for PvP in any form but that does not mean I am any lessor of a player then you are and everytime I see a post saying that you need to PvP to get this or that or to be able to do this or that you are in fact implying I am a lessor player simply because I do not like PvP. That is what I, and I am sure others, have a problem with.

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The solution you mention is the solution I agree with. I think you misunderstood my post.

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HalasterTheBlack wrote:

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Ternque01 wrote:

Okay okay okay... how about this PvE/PvP disscusion takers?

GM's contraband system remains virtually untouched save for one small detail: when visibility crests to the point of sparking a BH the player gets this message box on their screen:

"Your visibility as a criminal has put a bounty on your head. Please select a PvE or a PvP bounty hunter below to take you out!!!"

End of story, people who don't want PvP don't have to tolerate it, people who do can have their fun

One note on the issue, PvE bounty hunters should be just as difficult to defeat as player ones. Having your visibility so high means that you are on the top scale of criminal punishments, and that should be felt. Hard crimes need hard punishments. This is Star Wars

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Except you STAY visible until a BH kills you, not until you kill a BH. Get visible and you're forever going to be followed and the only way out is death. You can kill every BH in the game and you still retain visibility. They can clone and try again and again and again.

That's a flaw in the BH system though, not this proposal.

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Good point. At one point it was suggested on these boards that not only will the bounty end upon BH death, but if a BH initiates combat, a bounty should last no more than 24-48 hours more. I'm not even sure if current BH missions even have a time limit on them already... but definitely if a BH dies in combat with his prey, the bounty should end!

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Ryutek wrote:

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RellikCro wrote:

The problem I have with your idea is that it again regresses back into PvP again. To have a compromise we can not force players that are unwilling to PvP into an unconsentual PvP enviroment and simply telling them they have to use inferior equipment just makes that gab even wider by implying PvP playstyle players are granted a RIGHT to use the best equipment in the galaxy while PvE playstyle players should not have that right. Do you see the rift you are creating?

Where is it regressing into PvP again? Did I not make it clear? You select a flg, and it is PvE or PvP, period. I did state that my personal opinion is that if you choose to use illegal items then you consent, but I did state that as a compromise I would agree to the other route of selcted the flag.

We need to find a solution that is acceptable to both parties that grant both parties the ability to use the same equpiment and resources in the game without causing a rift and forcing non-consentual pvp onto a playstyle that has no desire for it. It still all come back down to respecint both sides.

The best solution I have heard is the PvP/PvE "flag" option whether it be in the options control planel or a popup box. Your playstyle is no more important then mine is, it should get no more rewards then mine. You do not play the game better, you do not play it more often, you do not necesairly even excell better at combat. PvP vs. PvE is not about skills, it is not about who plays better, it is not about how much timey ou play the game per week.... it is about playstyles. I, as a PvE, just have a very huge distaste for PvP in any form but that does not mean I am any lessor of a player then you are and everytime I see a post saying that you need to PvP to get this or that or to be able to do this or that you are in fact implying I am a lessor player simply because I do not like PvP. That is what I, and I am sure others, have a problem with.

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The solution you mention is the solution I agree with. I think you misunderstood my post.

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Oh, sorry I see that now... I think I am getting tired and my eyes need a rest lol. I will go take a break and then come back after a few

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GreenMarine wrote:

This thread is huge! I'm working through reading all of this and I'm writing down notes. It will probably not be until Friday before I can post some responses (mainly because I'm fairly busy today and tonight).

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Maybe now you understand the desire for a solid, amazingSmuggler re-vamp? Perhaps now it is noted just how big ofa deal this is to us?