Smuggler Archive
Thread: Combat Upgrade: Spices
ApollyonTB
Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:28 am
#40
I hope so...
/sigh
Its been so long...since Ive even spent the time making spices.
SBRD0C
Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:21 am
#41
I was in fact expecting this... but in any case, I'm happy =)
Balancing them now means they can add creative downers and intoxifying effects with our Revamp. muahaha
Sengis
Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:10 am
#42
what he said. stop offering stuff and start doing stuff soe.
lurdanta wrote:
HimFan wrote:
Not only would I like to see spices more usefull, I would like to see something illegal about them. As in rare hard-to-find resouces (but that might be a revamp thing).
/mood serious
I agree. I've long thought it was stupid for spices to be "illegal," yet they are sold openly on the bazaar. It's like selling crack through the classified ads. I think if spices and sliced armor and weapons are illegal they shouldn't be able to be bought openly on the bazaar.
It just doesn't make sense, and would seem to be an easy way to offer content to smugglers, which is why it will never happen, because that would mean the devs would have to do something nice for us, which we all know they don't like to do. Call me cynic (and I'm a master cynic), but I don't expect smugglers will ever get anything from the devs. Despite the honorable and Herculean efforts of our correspondants, I can't help but think smugglers are simply punching dummies for the devs, nothing more than people they keep around to abuse to release the stress of bending over backwards to give Jedi everything they want. I figure they need someone to abuse, and we're it.
I've played this game since day two and have never seen the devs do anything good for smuggler, on the contrary, they seem to do little but break it more and more, but I don't have to go on, we all know the story...I expect the next publish will nerf us again
/mood sarcastic
On the bright side, I'm glad Entertainers got content missions. I think it's important for entertainers, a profession so important to the Star Wars Universe, to have more to do than smugglers, who essentially are unimportant to the game and the galaxy. I mean who is this Han Solo character anyways and what did he ever do that was important to the story? He's such a minor character, I don't know why smuggler is a profession in the first place.
electricnomad
Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:24 am
#43
NickHeel wrote:
I just have one thing to add/say:
I am a SMUGGLER. I Smuggle spice to suppliers who then sell it to people. I do not craft it or make it...otherwise I'd be a Master Spice Dealer.
And I'm strongly apposed to keeping our 4th line just "Spices" and upgrading them and adding new ones. I don't think we'll ever get rid of crafting them unless they make a "Crime Lord" profession but we should limit to what we have, make them better, and all the new ones should be better and Smuggled in.
I'm in favor of keeping spices involved in the Fence line, but adding some new content to that line. You can find some of my ideas for spice (and other things)in this thread:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=smuggler&message.id=44969
But in case cutting and pasting that link is a hassle, let me just cut and paste what I'm referring to:
MAKING THE 'FENCE' LINE MORE FENCE AND LESS SPICE:
Following my review of many demands people made for Underworld (ironically enough), here's a preliminary set of skills I'd like to see appear in the Fence line of Smuggler.
Note: The branch is indeed called "Fence," which means dealer in illicit goods. The way I see it, this isthe Dirty Merchant of SWG. Part of that includes refining drugs, I believe. But part of it is just plain buying and selling with shady characters.
FENCE (Spice)
Universal trading capabilities
--allow inter-Factional trading between Coverts (low-level skill)
--allow inter-Factional trading between an Overt and a Covert (mid-level skill)
--eliminate all trading TEFs in participants (high-level skill)
Special contraband vendor
--no contraband will be able to be sold on a regular vendor or the bazaar, BUT someone with Business 4 and Spice 4 will be able to place a special NPC vendor that CAN sell contraband (I think it should have a small chance of being discovered and fined HUGE amounts of money, not confiscated). This skill would be akin to allowing an extra vendor, but not giving the command to /placevendor, kind of like getting Aim bonuses in Pistoleer but no /aim command unless you get Marksman Ranged Support 1.
--could be acquired from your criminal patron as a result of having performed enough work for them(see link and Underworld proposals)
--no contraband will be able to be sold on a regular vendor or the bazaar, BUT someone with Business 4 and Spice 4 will be able to place a special NPC vendor that CAN sell contraband (I think it should have a small chance of being discovered and fined HUGE amounts of money, not confiscated). This skill would be akin to allowing an extra vendor, but not giving the command to /placevendor, kind of like getting Aim bonuses in Pistoleer but no /aim command unless you get Marksman Ranged Support 1.
--could be acquired from your criminal patron as a result of having performed enough work for them(see link and Underworld proposals)
Linguistics
--speak all languages (currently in Underworld, but more of a merchant-type skill, ie, Fence, so move it here)
Spice refining
--process componentsinto refined, usable spice with useful effects. The components are acquired through missions for a criminal organization, which depends on Underworld skills. Model the system after Deadeye Serum from the third Cries of Alderaan missions.
--allow the current spices to be crafted without advanced components and left with their current effectiveness (which is to say, none).
--allow increasingly better experimentation as you climb the branch to Master. Someone with Underworld 4 might be able to acquiresome of thebest components and get great spice schematics from their patron(s), but someone with Spice 4 would be the best at processingeverything into usefulspice.Someone with more skillpoints invested in the entire tree would have an advantage from "content points," which wouldenable them to find better raw components and more of it.(You'll need to refer to the link to see what this last part means.)
--speak all languages (currently in Underworld, but more of a merchant-type skill, ie, Fence, so move it here)
Spice refining
--process componentsinto refined, usable spice with useful effects. The components are acquired through missions for a criminal organization, which depends on Underworld skills. Model the system after Deadeye Serum from the third Cries of Alderaan missions.
--allow the current spices to be crafted without advanced components and left with their current effectiveness (which is to say, none).
--allow increasingly better experimentation as you climb the branch to Master. Someone with Underworld 4 might be able to acquiresome of thebest components and get great spice schematics from their patron(s), but someone with Spice 4 would be the best at processingeverything into usefulspice.Someone with more skillpoints invested in the entire tree would have an advantage from "content points," which wouldenable them to find better raw components and more of it.(You'll need to refer to the link to see what this last part means.)
I also have proposals for a spice overhaul, but I really think it depends on what happens with Underworld. I like the idea of gathering the raw ingredients from Deadeye 3-style warehouse missions, then using the Fence line to refine the spice. In order to get better and larger pools of the raw ingredients, however, you would need to progress up the Underworld tree (to get access to crime syndicates as your patrons, ie shadow Factions) as well as the entire skilltree itself (to get access to better content, ie, missions that offer better spice ingredients, and more of it).
There may be some other things that you'd need to read in order to understand the context of those ideas, and if what's above doesn't make any sense, I invite you to check out the link above.
But basically, I want to make the line live up to the Fence name, and have spices be a component of it (and be processed, not created outright) rather than the central focus.
How does that sound?
DrakoonShao
Sun Nov 14, 2004 1:15 pm
#44
IndySWG wrote:
This is one of the reasons I was actually glad to see combat upgrade done before professions...
We should see some improvments thanks to buffs being redone (spices) and all the weapons, specials being redone.
Now if we could only get the combat upgrade to make dynamic pre-reqs an option
I wouldn't be surprised to see changes to our Slicing line as well. Slicing is a pretty important part in figuring weapons damage and speed and of course armor stats as well. Really starting to view the combat upgrade as the Smuggler revamp part 1. Hopefully part 2 will add content and make the Underworld line useful.
SBRD0C
Sun Nov 14, 2004 1:22 pm
#45
DrakoonShao wrote:
IndySWG wrote:
This is one of the reasons I was actually glad to see combat upgrade done before professions...
We should see some improvments thanks to buffs being redone (spices) and all the weapons, specials being redone.
Now if we could only get the combat upgrade to make dynamic pre-reqs an option
I wouldn't be surprised to see changes to our Slicing line as well. Slicing is a pretty important part in figuring weapons damage and speed and of course armor stats as well. Really starting to view the combat upgrade as the Smuggler revamp part 1. Hopefully part 2 will add content and make the Underworld line useful.
Yes Part 1.. CU, Fixes Combat Effecting Mechanics (DF Tree, Slicing Tree, Spice Tree).
Part 2.. Smuggler Revamp, Crime Upgrade, whatever... Add Content and new non-direct-combat related abilities... like adding spice effects(spice Tree), smuggler missions(underworld Tree), making more terminals/equipment sliceable (Slicing Tree).
Part 3.. GCW Revamp - Breath Life into the GCW Giving use to our factional type abilities (underworld)
Ahhh in a Perfect World... Now I just hope I don't wake up...
algiz
Sun Nov 14, 2004 2:22 pm
#46
for the record, i am ANTI-crafting read the descriptions on the spices most of them are artisan rejects anyway, booster blue, used to be a paint, droid lubricant... pretty self explanatory.. i say let the artisans have it. i also think that while they can make it the base spice will have no effect without smuggler intervention.. during the crafting process there needs to have two things happen,
1) there needs to be a form of spice introduced to the mix as an "active" ingredient. the only way to get this refined spice is to have our little artisan hop down to the local smuggler and place an order. our heroic smugger then talks to NPC's that for only will deal with smugglers with a certain level of spice. much like the bounty hunters and their spy net operatives. talking to these NPC's will allow our smuggler to attempt a mission (in which only smugglers can undertake, if there are any non smugglers in group these missions should be inacessable) and during this mission our smuggler has to sneak past stormtrooper patrols, RSF, CorSec, and the rest in order to get to a warehouse / factory. at this point i see it going like this, the smuggler can deliver supplies for the npc's in the warehouse to convert to raw spice, i.e. 1 unit of spice requires 1chem, 1metal, 1 organic, for low end spice, and more for higher end spice. or simply picks up (X) amount of spice and repeats mission as needed to get the quantity of spice needed to fill order. the smuggler then returns to the artisan that placed the order and delivers the cargo all while dodging patrols now looking for him.
2) there needs to be a "refinement" process at some stage of the spice production, either raw spice or finished product, and depending on the sucess of this refinement (or cutting) determines the strength of the effects and the strength of the downer.
for a truely hideous downer the user could randomly begin firing at anything that the player sees, thus requiring the player to uneuip all weapons and hide in a house untill the effects have passed (like many drug users do in real life) OR take the spice again like an addiction. this means that people wil have to be careful about spice use... the ones using it rashly will end up with the more dangerous consequences... the ones using it wisely will en up with maybe a minor tremor.
Iwould also like to see spices to counter the effects of downers... basicaly something to counter a half hour downer (which there needs to be) that would for two to five minutes make the player be unable to perform the most simplest of tasks as the spice flushed his/her system out.
these are just a few of my ideas on the subject and i don't really think they would be too hard to do get done.
Fenrir Thurisar -Smuggler -Commando -Bounty Hunter -Sneaky Bothan
"verdi, verchi, explodi. -i came, i saw, i blew it up"
JTGAlpha
Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:00 pm
#48
For everyone who doesn't think we should craft it, while I disagree, it doesn't matter. This has nothing to do with HOW we get the spices, the point is that spices themselves will be sellable, which, no matter what part of the supply/demand food chain we want to be on, the product has to be desired by the rest of the community. Which, as we all know, it is not currently. Baby steps guys, baby steps. We're not going to get revamped in the CU, but after it. Hang in there...
"Stay on target..."
TRDB
Tue Nov 16, 2004 9:23 am
#49
JTGAlpha wrote:
For everyone who doesn't think we should craft it, while I disagree, it doesn't matter. This has nothing to do with HOW we get the spices, the point is that spices themselves will be sellable, which, no matter what part of the supply/demand food chain we want to be on, the product has to be desired by the rest of the community. Which, as we all know, it is not currently. Baby steps guys, baby steps. We're not going to get revamped in the CU, but after it. Hang in there...
"Stay on target..."
Staying on target... With the CU upgrade for spices it is important that they become VERY powerful and desired. Not just to make credits right away, but so that they can be made illegal and still desireable to be smuggled for the playerbase in the future.
If spices are not made powerful enough to generate demand to be smuggled for players and make a nice profit then the ultimate revamp will fail, because no matter how well a NPC smuggler revamp is it will become boring in time. Making spices (and a wider range of them) VERY desireabe is the first step we need to have our eventual revamp work.
JinxM
Tue Nov 16, 2004 9:33 am
#50
holy cow, you mean the smuggler revamp is now AFTER the CU? it was scheduled for after JTL. now its after the CU??
someone earlier said it right, another let down.
adferoabeo
Tue Nov 16, 2004 9:33 am
#51
my friend posted a document that discussed this issue,
his oppinion was that there should be a new fullness meter
that would be used for doctor buffs and spice only, and
that doctor buffs be greatly nerfed to make spices
anywhere/anytime/anyone factor become what puts it
above the other buffs.
the original post is filled with ideas for the smuggler revamp
and information regarding most of the games major issues
and the solutions, for anyone willing to read it, it's located at:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=csystems&message.id=44447
hope that helps 
adferoabeo
Tue Nov 16, 2004 9:35 am
#52
oh and my freind is dying for some evidence that someone with a voice
has read his post, so WesBelden if you have time to check out the
thread i linked to and just post a simple "i read it" he'd be overjoyed