Smuggler Archive

Thread: A humble question to our trigger happy mods

Aendracon
Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:59 am
#40







Tiggs wrote:

I think you misunderstood my statement. The moderators jobs are solely to moderate the forums. When a post is alerted the read the thread before and after the post was made so they have a better idea of what is going on in that discussion. Then a determination is made to either lock the thread or move the offending posts. Many times when a offending post is removed many constructive posts are moved also due to players blindly hitting reply.





You know Tiggs, this is quite lovely. I haven´t got an explanation yet why my original thread has been deleted and yet some moderator has started to delete posts in this very thread again. Yes, there was a minor argument betweentwo Smugglers in here, but we had that already sorted out before some Mod went E-Rambo again. This is exactly why tempers are flaring. Your modearators have absolutely no clue when to act and when action is uncalled for.Its thoughtless action like this that makes people think that someone at SOE is intending to set them off. RememberTH´s tuesday tip? That was another fine example of acting without thinking.And yet here we go again. Great job.





Ryian Coron - Elder Smuggler
"do not assume your customers are morons. odds are they know a lot more about the situation than you do because they live with it every day. listen to them, actually listen, and take what they say into account. you might save some money, morons."
- Fernas
fishbrains
Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:30 am
#41



Tiggs wrote:


DKShadow wrote:


Tiggs wrote:

We have around 150 forums that four moderators attend to (2 during the day and 2 at night). They very rarely have the time to go looking for posts with the amount of post reports they receive.


Ok normally I don't get involved in Forum politics, nor do I like to feed the trolls, I have NOT seen the thread in question, however I AM prompted to ask this question:

You have "moderators" of these forums that arbitrarily delete posts because of "reports" from normal users, in most cases without ever reading the post in question?

SO let's say there is this guy "Mike" last night he beat me in pvp, I am still quite sore about this, today "Mike" post in the Chef forum about Tatooine Berry Fruit Spawn rates. I hate "Mikes" guts for beating me, so I decided to get my revenge, I report his post to the moderator, in my report I claim that Mike is being subversive, using foul language and has a general overall Anti-Dev sentiment. So the moderator is thinking "oh great only 40 more of these and I can go to bed" so He sees mine, and deletes "Mikes" post without ever reading it. Since this was effective, EVERYTIME "Mike" posts something, regardless of the topic, I report it and it gets deleted, caught in the massive heap of other posts the mod has to delete?

That is not good business, and I am not a big complainer (less than 30 posts in over 2 years, and most of those are beta posts), I am just curious as to this business practice.

What it sounds like is you need more moderators for these forums, I of course volunteer my services, as for having been in the game every day for 2 years and not quitting and logging thousands of minutes on the forums (as a reader, not a poster). I would be happy to donate some of my free time to actually READ disputed posts and act accordingly, not delete posts because the more posts I delete the more work it looks like I am doing. You know my email, look me up if you want some real help.


Darkshadow - Valcyn - Master Rifleman/Creature Handler - Retired Bounty Hunter (again) - Inqusition Ace Pilot





I think you misunderstood my statement. The moderators jobs are solely to moderate the forums. When a post is alerted the read the thread before and after the post was made so they have a better idea of what is going on in that discussion. Then a determination is made to either lock the thread or move the offending posts. Many times when a offending post is removed many constructive posts are moved also due to players blindly hitting reply.



begging pardon Tiggs but could we please get some real answers to our IC stuff rather than answers to stuff like this.



Joras 'Godfather' Kal'lan/Aethen Dor

Master Smuggler/Master Officer
Sunrunner's Elder Smuggler


PersianLegionary654
Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:06 am
#42






I think you misunderstood my statement. The moderators jobs are solely to moderate the forums. When a post is alerted the read the thread before and after the post was made so they have a better idea of what is going on in that discussion. Then a determination is made to either lock the thread or move the offending posts. Many times when a offending post is removed many constructive posts are moved also due to players blindly hitting reply.




Ahh, so, we're "blindly" responding. Wow, didn't know we were so impaired. Also, can't you delete individual posts? You were doing so in this thread if I recall, so why not elsewhere.


Answer: Because that won'tget rid of constructive posts pointing out our failure.We need an excuse, sothis one is as good as any.


Now, I realize wearen't going to get any answers from you. You are a master of political acrobatics. You straddle fences, juggle books, and change horses in mid-stream without rocking the boat. You have no accountability and answer nothing. Amazingly, even after the forum riot yesterday, you DID nothing. No agknowledgement of the problems this latest patch has created, nothing.


Everyone, I think we should leave Tiggs to her\his\itfantasyland.




A rollback is coming, perhaps. We can't be sure, and the mods totally deny it, but IMO, that makes it all the more likely. Hang in there, it could come at any moment... All we've worked for may soon come to fruition...

-I support the firing of Julio Torres, out of a cannon, into the sun."
- I support keeping & balancing the original Pre-CU combat system
- I support not buying ToOW...and I was right about it
- I support anyone who stands against the implementation of the NGE
- I support being able to make jokes about Julio Torres.
Red-Dwarf
Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:04 am
#43






Tiggs wrote:

Many times when a offending post is removed many constructive posts are moved also due to players blindly hitting reply.




To explain this consider the following situations:


Thread A. 4 posts. all replies to original post.


First post is a flame attack and is reported. In deleting the first post the whole thread is deleted even if the three replies are all fair comments.


Thread B: 4 posts.


post 1 is a well worded suggestion on some game topic or other. post 2 is a flame of the poster for no reason. post 3 is a reply to post 2 but is a flame of them. post 4 is a comment on the original and is well worded BUT is a reply to post 3 as the poster simply hit reply on the last post but wanted to comment on the original suggestion not the flames.


The thread is reported and the mod chooses to delete post 2. In doing so lithium will delete 3 and 4 and there is nothing the mod can do to save that post - it's how lithium works.


Thread C: 4 posts


same posts as in thread B BUT post 4 is a reply to the opening post.


The thread is reported and the mod deletes post 2. Post 2 and 3 are deleted by lithium but post 4 is left as it has nothing to do with the flames.



If you want to be safe with your posts reply to the original poster and only if the whole thread is a loss will your post be deleted. If you blindly hit reply on the last post in the thread after reading it all you could find your post is lost. It would be nice if lithium could code it differently, but would take more mod time and they'd be more likely to delete a whole thread rather than try to weed out the flames.





The Shiro Clan of TC -
...has successfully tracked Tiggs
...is still tracking down more bugs
NB: Any comments I make on TC code can and often do change
before they reach live and may not reach live at all, please read my
comments with that in mind.
ravingbantha
Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:21 am
#44






PersianLegionary654 wrote:






I think you misunderstood my statement. The moderators jobs are solely to moderate the forums. When a post is alerted the read the thread before and after the post was made so they have a better idea of what is going on in that discussion. Then a determination is made to either lock the thread or move the offending posts. Many times when a offending post is removed many constructive posts are moved also due to players blindly hitting reply.




Ahh, so, we're "blindly" responding. Wow, didn't know we were so impaired. Also, can't you delete individual posts? You were doing so in this thread if I recall, so why not elsewhere.


Answer: Because that won'tget rid of constructive posts pointing out our failure.We need an excuse, sothis one is as good as any.


Now, I realize wearen't going to get any answers from you. You are a master of political acrobatics. You straddle fences, juggle books, and change horses in mid-stream without rocking the boat. You have no accountability and answer nothing. Amazingly, even after the forum riot yesterday, you DID nothing. No agknowledgement of the problems this latest patch has created, nothing.


Everyone, I think we should leave Tiggs to her\his\itfantasyland.






perfect example of reading and not understanding. What she was saying is that when you reply to a post in a thread it is tied to the post you replied to. Therefore if that post get's deleated the posts tied to that particular post (not the thread) get deleated. For example if for some reason your post gets deleated, say a mod didn't like the way you said what you said (all theoritical) my post would also get deleated, because it is tied in with your post., anyone that replies to my post in particular would also get removed, because mine was tied with yours and so on and so on.



Does that make any more sence?


EmporersFist
Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:55 pm
#45






Tiggs wrote:






SmugglinZane wrote:






Tiggs wrote:

Hello,


The moderators receive reports from players who think threads/posts are inappropriate for our forums and hit the report to moderator button. It is then the moderators job to review the thread and posts within it to see if it is within our guidelines. If the post is not within the guidelines it is removed. If the main post is within the guidelines however there are posts afterwards that aren't they will be removed.


When a post is removed all posts replying to it are also removed. This is where our players should be careful with what they are replying to.


I have not seen your post however I will ask the moderators tomorrow what happened.







I find this statement hard to believe. This means we either have a bunch of stealth reporters, people who are reporting without saying anything, or the mods actually do delete things that aren't necessarily reported.


Considering the penchant for certain types of posts getting deleted in this forum, especially the ones that are critical of the devs without flaming, then I take this as a bold faced lie. Well maybe not a lie, but definitely a half truth.


We know they delete without a report Tiggs. So just come clean about it.






We have around 150 forums that four moderators attend to (2 during the day and 2 at night). They very rarely have the time to go looking for posts with the amount of post reports they receive.






Ummmmm dare I say that is a problem? Oh and by the way, I find the blood in your signature offensive. Please change it.
talansen
Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:10 pm
#46

Wow. It amazes me that this thread is getting so much attention. Especially when the origional post (the one that was deleted) was so obviously an attempt to bring a litle peace to this board. I can't even imagine a reason forit to be deleted.It also amazes me that of all the threads in the smuggler forum, THIS is the one a red-name bothers to respond to. Huh.


You guys do realize this is the reason everyone in these forums is so upset, right? We get a response to this, but not to ANY of the very constructive posts that happen on this forum and actually deal with the game.


Huh.





Talan'sen Corby Rebel Swashbuckler
Kaif Corby Elder Merchant
sNs
vendors located in New Dublin, Dantooine at -1209 3469

SmugglinZane
Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:41 pm
#47

Exactly. We get absolutely nothing from these people, but post/thread deletions.


You want things on the forums to calm down Tiggs, perhaps you guys should really start listening to your customers, then do something incredibly unprecedented for you. Respond to us without all the BS mixed in. I know that may sound asinine, but if given a try I gurantee you it would work better than anything you guys have done to date.


What I can't understand is how you can come here to defend needless post deletions, but none of you can come here to defend the abortions you call answers about Smuggler IC.


The sad truth is you are running out of things to defend. You cannot defend your treatment of this profession. You cannot defend your reasons for delaying us (seeing as you once again LIED about what the teams priorities were). You cannot defend over two years of unsatisfactory service and leading the game in a direction that the players never asked for.


That leaves you here on these forums, defending the only thing you have left that's defendable. And that's your right to delete posts and threads. Well congratulations. You found something solid to stand on.


Keep in mind though, there's been enough BS floating around this game and these forums that we know what the smell is.



"Jedi claims of being "broken" are like saying "But my TV isn't widescreen! It's broken! My TV can't show high-def pictures in 1080i, it can only do 720i! It's broken!" Meanwhile, crafters are saying "We'd really like to have a TV that's larger than 12" and gets more than 4 channels and doesn't constantly lose vertical control", and entertainers are saying "Can we get some color instead of this B&W piece of junk?" And smugglers? We're listening to radio programs of "The Shadow" and "The Abbot and Costello Comedy Hour" and hearing FDR's Fireside Chats. We don't even HAVE a damn TV, much less a broken one or a "broken" one by Jedi standards. I'd LOVE to be as "broken" as they are." - The Legendary Solo4114
Makris
Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:03 am
#48


Wait, what is does sence mean?


... or deleated?
Aendracon-
Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:30 am
#49






Tiggs wrote:

Hello,


The moderators receive reports from players who think threads/posts are inappropriate for our forums and hit the report to moderator button. It is then the moderators job to review the thread and posts within it to see if it is within our guidelines. If the post is not within the guidelines it is removed. If the main post is within the guidelines however there are posts afterwards that aren't they will be removed.


When a post is removed all posts replying to it are also removed. This is where our players should be careful with what they are replying to.


I have not seen your post however I will ask the moderators tomorrow what happened.





Hello Tiggs,


guess what, I am still waiting for a reason. Now I understand you are probably a very busy person, but recent posts in the shadowfire and Bloodfin galaxy forums made me wonder aboutyour priorities. Anyway, I am not willing to let this matter die without an explanation.







'Ryian Coron - Elder Smuggler
AenaronTal - Elder Bounty Hunter

SmugglinZane
Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:46 am
#50






Aendracon- wrote:





Tiggs wrote:

Hello,


The moderators receive reports from players who think threads/posts are inappropriate for our forums and hit the report to moderator button. It is then the moderators job to review the thread and posts within it to see if it is within our guidelines. If the post is not within the guidelines it is removed. If the main post is within the guidelines however there are posts afterwards that aren't they will be removed.


When a post is removed all posts replying to it are also removed. This is where our players should be careful with what they are replying to.


I have not seen your post however I will ask the moderators tomorrow what happened.





Hello Tiggs,


guess what, I am still waiting for a reason. Now I understand you are probably a very busy person, but recent posts in the shadowfire and Bloodfin galaxy forums made me wonder aboutyour priorities. Anyway, I am not willing to let this matter die without an explanation.







You'll probably die before getting an explanation though.



"Jedi claims of being "broken" are like saying "But my TV isn't widescreen! It's broken! My TV can't show high-def pictures in 1080i, it can only do 720i! It's broken!" Meanwhile, crafters are saying "We'd really like to have a TV that's larger than 12" and gets more than 4 channels and doesn't constantly lose vertical control", and entertainers are saying "Can we get some color instead of this B&W piece of junk?" And smugglers? We're listening to radio programs of "The Shadow" and "The Abbot and Costello Comedy Hour" and hearing FDR's Fireside Chats. We don't even HAVE a damn TV, much less a broken one or a "broken" one by Jedi standards. I'd LOVE to be as "broken" as they are." - The Legendary Solo4114
Aendracon-
Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:13 am
#51


More like certainly, yeah. Nevertheless, should I let it go? Would you? Its always the same: she says she will get back to us and never ever does. This isn´t really about a deleted thread, its about the way we are being treated here. The mods obviously made a mistake. Granted, we all are known to make some at times. But whatreally disappoints me is that they arerefuse toadmit it. SOE doesn´t make mistakes. Period.







'Ryian Coron - Elder Smuggler
AenaronTal - Elder Bounty Hunter

SmugglinZane
Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:50 am
#52






Aendracon- wrote:


More like certainly, yeah. Nevertheless, should I let it go? Would you? Its always the same: she says she will get back to us and never ever does. This isn´t really about a deleted thread, its about the way we are being treated here. The mods obviously made a mistake. Granted, we all are known to make some at times. But whatreally disappoints me is that they arerefuse toadmit it. SOE doesn´t make mistakes. Period.








Would I drop it, if it was me probably. There's a lot of examples of poor treatment around here that never get answered. The reason I say I would drop it is because there are better ways to focus your efforts. In other words, choose your battles.


Ideally, the best thing would be for you to have a copy of the thread saved. Take that thread, this thread, and the many other threads that are evidence of how this community is treated, as well as the customer base as a whole, and put together one hell of a package to submit to the press. The press will only get you so far though, which is why you'd then send it on to the Better Business Bureau and other consumer advocate groups.


Conduct and mediation of online forums they own will not ever be more than a blip on a screen to anyone. They own this beast, and that's how everyone you show it to will see it. The only way you can use it to serve a purpose is how their conduct contributes to silencing paying customers objections to the service provided.


With all that said, more than likely there's not much of anything you can do about it all. SOE, because of past legal issues, is lawyered up pretty well both in disclaimers and I'm sure otherpreventative measures, and in the end it's still LA's baby.


It's just one more issue in a neverending pile of issues that continue to get ignored. Put it in the pile so that someday, if it ever becomes useful, you can get some satisfaction from it.



"Jedi claims of being "broken" are like saying "But my TV isn't widescreen! It's broken! My TV can't show high-def pictures in 1080i, it can only do 720i! It's broken!" Meanwhile, crafters are saying "We'd really like to have a TV that's larger than 12" and gets more than 4 channels and doesn't constantly lose vertical control", and entertainers are saying "Can we get some color instead of this B&W piece of junk?" And smugglers? We're listening to radio programs of "The Shadow" and "The Abbot and Costello Comedy Hour" and hearing FDR's Fireside Chats. We don't even HAVE a damn TV, much less a broken one or a "broken" one by Jedi standards. I'd LOVE to be as "broken" as they are." - The Legendary Solo4114
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