Smuggler Archive
Thread: CU Smuggler focused feedback
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CapnKate
Tue May 24, 2005 5:53 am
#40
guessit wrote:
lol, this upgrade was really mixed, and probably a downgrade;lowblow doesnt work... downgrade. -root... redundant with pistol, give it an "even" not a plus or minus. 0 actually i give it a minus; if we are getting a mezz a mezz we should get. -snare; a plus, but redundancy becomes an even. 0last ditch; was a powerful anytime special, now it really works how it should. However, this "upgrade" is also a downgrade; our only powerful special is now a "dont use me till you are REALLY losing" button. 0panic shot; downgrade -slices; gimped downgrade. -spices; now people want them, upgrade. +feign death; works for something other than getting your armor destroyed- upgrade. +So now we are four downgrades, for two upgrades, and a couple "evens."Thing is, if they had left alone the crap they downgraded, and just improved the things that needed it, then smugg would finally approach being fixed... well then there would be things like... being a fun class as defined by "smuggling" to worry about
Okay, I'm going to disagree on a couple of things here:
Concussion shot is NOT redundant as it surrently is with Pistoleer's Stopping shot. It Roots much longer(40 seconds), and re-cycles a WHOLE lot faster. This may not matter when you're one-on-one, but you'll notice when you've got three or four things to root. Also, Smuggler must stand alone-- there is no guarantee the smuggler is taking Pistoleer, so assuming it's redundant is just plain wrong. Smuggler, in it's CC role, should be taken alone.
Likewise the snare, is not redundant. Even looking at it with the root Smuggler has, it isn't redundant. The Snare is perfect for buying a little time between roots, since you can't chain-root.
Low-Blow and Panic shot, as they exist right now, are redundant in regards to each other, but not useless. They stack, and easily reduce a target's attack speed to a crawl, resulting in fewer attacks and less damage... and they are currently a MUST against ranged opponents, who we have no other control over. Please note that the descriptions of these specials are no longer what they were Pre-CU or on the CU test server. They don't say anything about delays or KDs, as I recall.
Slices are gimped, but they couldn't leave it as it was without ruining the weapons balancing they sought to do. the new, CU-friendly system is on the way, though.
Saarek
Tue May 24, 2005 5:56 am
#41
CapnKate wrote:
guessit wrote:
lol, this upgrade was really mixed, and probably a downgrade;
lowblow doesnt work... downgrade. -
root... redundant with pistol, give it an "even" not a plus or minus. 0 actually i give it a minus; if we are getting a mezz a mezz we should get. -
snare; a plus, but redundancy becomes an even. 0
last ditch; was a powerful anytime special, now it really works how it should. However, this "upgrade" is also a downgrade; our only powerful special is now a "dont use me till you are REALLY losing" button. 0
panic shot; downgrade -
slices; gimped downgrade. -
spices; now people want them, upgrade. +
feign death; works for something other than getting your armor destroyed- upgrade. +
So now we are four downgrades, for two upgrades, and a couple "evens."
Thing is, if they had left alone the crap they downgraded, and just improved the things that needed it, then smugg would finally approach being fixed... well then there would be things like... being a fun class as defined by "smuggling" to worry about
Okay, I'm going to disagree on a couple of things here:
Concussion shot is NOT redundant as it surrently is with Pistoleer's Stopping shot. It Roots much longer(40 seconds), and re-cycles a WHOLE lot faster. This may not matter when you're one-on-one, but you'll notice when you've got three or four things to root. Also, Smuggler must stand alone-- there is no guarantee the smuggler is taking Pistoleer, so assuming it's redundant is just plain wrong. Smuggler, in it's CC role, should be taken alone.
Likewise the snare, is not redundant. Even looking at it with the root Smuggler has, it isn't redundant. The Snare is perfect for buying a little time between roots, since you can't chain-root.
Low-Blow and Panic shot, as they exist right now, are redundant in regards to each other, but not useless. They stack, and easily reduce a target's attack speed to a crawl, resulting in fewer attacks and less damage... and they are currently a MUST against ranged opponents, who we have no other control over. Please note that the descriptions of these specials are no longer what they were Pre-CU or on the CU test server. They don't say anything about delays or KDs, as I recall.
Slices are gimped, but they couldn't leave it as it was without ruining the weapons balancing they sought to do. the new, CU-friendly system is on the way, though.
Or so we HOPE.
Juspar
Thu May 26, 2005 2:41 pm
#42
Juspar Emvan, Bria
Master Combat Medic; 3/4/4/4 Smuggler (getting there); 2/0/0/0 Pistoleer
A mis-matched motley of padded and bone armor with a bunch of BE clothing.
I use an Alliance Disruptor, don't know all the stats off the top of my head, but aprox 370 dps, 16% wound
This is not a solo template. However I am a god send to any team. Between DOT and state effects of both my master (or nearly master) professions, and the ability to throw three different bactas around that ammount to no delay healing, I can ensure longevity of my group. Not to mention resuccitate.
By stacking three different top level spices I can achieve maximum buffs, with a new reduced withdrawal effect.
I can slice as well as anyone, especially with my really nice copper - which ammounts to one big steaming pile.
I still haven't ever smuggled anything??
I use the pistol KD - low blow doesn't work.
I use concussion, and I can't wait to hit master so I can have that 40 second version. I think I'd prefer concussion to be shorter duration if it meant no attacks. Afterall it's not a smugglers biggest concern whether he can stop a wort attacking him - it's a Police Officer or a BH he needs to control.
I use overwhelming shot - it goes particularly well with my Dutronium Toss and Poison attacks.
I use restraining, and I know it snares, but I don' tknow the exact effect it has. I'll keep using it, and hoping it's actually doing what I think it is, I haven't had the time to actually quantify it.
Feign Death may work, I've seen it work for others. It just never works for me. And then I end up Real Dead, which is no where near as fun as Pretend Dead.
Essentially I'm happy with smuggler or at least where smuggler is going, and particularly with my template. Slicing needs fixed, spices are perfect, I want to SMUGGLE, the specials seem to work and are appropriate.
Graxul
Thu May 26, 2005 10:45 pm
#43
As we all know most of the abilities in Smuggler are not working effectively..if they work at all. However there is still some hope because other profession abilities work in a similar manner and they actually do work.
My first comparison will be with delay attacks.
Startle shot in its original version only raises the targets posture. If prone they kneel. If kneeling they stand.
Improved Startle shot increases the damage of the attack as well as raising the posture of the target.
Advanced Startle shot increases the damage of the attack and also delays the target from attacking for 5 seconds as long as no one (or nothing...includes DOTs) attacks the target.
Improved Startle shot increases the damage of the attack as well as raising the posture of the target.
Advanced Startle shot increases the damage of the attack and also delays the target from attacking for 5 seconds as long as no one (or nothing...includes DOTs) attacks the target.
Disarming Shot makes the target fumble with their weapon for a short period of time. It also stops the auto attack of the target and they won't fire back until they physically hit an attack again.
Improved Disarming shot increases the length of time that its effect delays the target from attacking again.
Improved Disarming shot increases the length of time that its effect delays the target from attacking again.
Panic shot delays the target from attacking for a short period of time. But unlike Advanced Startle shot or either version of disarming shot, panic shotis implemented by reducing the target's attack speed by 10 and in improved panic shot it reduces the target's attack speed by 15. Unfortunately no apparent delay is noticed from this. This attack needs to have the delay of improved startle shot and advanced startle shot...minus the posture raising effect.
If panic shot and improved panic shot were implemented in a way more similar to Advanced Startle shot or any version of disarming shot then we would see a noticable effect from the attack and panic shot would be a very useful ability in our arsenal.
Attack speed reducing abilities
Low blow is supposed to knockdown the target and at the same time its supposed to delay or slow down the attacks of the target. It currently does not knockdown the target(no system message saying that you failed to knockdown the target) and it is supposed to reduce the targets attack speed by 50. Unfortunately it does not knockdown the target and the effect of the attack is barely noticeable in PvP and in PvE its not noticeable at all. After further testing in PvP the effect is noticable especially when combined with thyroid rupture but it seems toreduce your general and specific ranged bonuses leaving only the unmodified speed of the target's weapon.
Panic shot unfortunately is currently classed as an attack speed reducer by its implementation rather than its description(as a delay attack). It reduces attack speed by 10 in its original version and by 15 in the improved version. It has no apparent affect on the targets attack speed in PvP or PvE. Panic shot needs to be classified and implemented as a delay attack similar to how startle shot works in order for it to be useful at all.
Thyroid Rupture is supposed to reduce the attack speed of a target. Its supposed to do this by reducing the targets attack speed by 40. Panic shot, low blow and thyroid rupture do not seem to have any effect on a targets attack speed whatsoever. After further testing in PvP the effect is noticable especially when combined with low blow but it seems toreduce the target's general and specific ranged bonuses leaving only the unmodified speed of the target's weapon.
Low blow and thyroid rupture can be placed on a target at the same time supposably giving a -90 attack speed reduction, unfortunately it doesn't seem to reduce the attack speed much at all against creatures or npcs. The devs may need to re work how these attacks function. I'd recommend percentage reductions in attack speeds so that way these attacks would be more useful against NPCs and creatures who have attack speeds which are much faster than what is possible for players. It could also be due to how creature or NPC modifiers are created via the comparison of your level and theirs...is the creature's/npc's physicalweapon speed changing (weapon itself) based on the difference between you and their level or is it the modifiers of the creature's speed and accuracy that change?
Mezz/Daze/Paralyze attacks
Concussion Shot is supposed to daze a target preventing them from moving or attacking for the duration of the attack's effect or until someone or something attacks the target. However, this attack is implemented as a root attack that keeps the target from moving. Attacks on the target do not cancel the effect and the target can still attack you or heal themselves during the effect of the attack.
Paralyze is a combat medic attack. It paralyzes the target preventing them from attacking or healing for the duration of the attack's effect or until the target is attacked by someone or by something.
In my opinion concussion shot should be implemented to work like paralyze does for combat medics. And would allow Smugglers to remove targets from combat by preventing them from healing, from moving and from attacking as long as the attack is in effect...or until something or someone attacks it. This would work on both melee and ranged targets and would be our key class defining role within the group allowing us to daze other creatures/npcs/players while the rest of the team focuses firepower on one target...or place non damaging debuffs on the target (combat medic's debuffs are a good example...though they have a range of about 10m but if the target can't fight back then this isn't too bad).
State effect resist reducers
Overwhelming shot reduces the target's resists to state effect attacks. Works like shock.
Shock reduces the target's resists to state effect attacks. Works like overwhelming shot.
Reckless shot in its current description isn't working properly. The original version's description states: It is used as a last resort this ability unleashes a large barrage of shots at the target. This will place you in a vulnerable position and causes a defensive penalty to the attacker.
Improved Reckless Shot has an increased defensive penalty placed on the target.
Advanced Reckless Shot has an increased defensive penalty placed on the target.
Improved Reckless Shot has an increased defensive penalty placed on the target.
Advanced Reckless Shot has an increased defensive penalty placed on the target.
Warning shot places a -80 defense debuff on the target allowing you to do more damage to the targetdepending on how much youraccuracy is above the targets reduced defense.
After comparing the description of reckless shot with what warning shot actually does, it is very likely that reckless shot should function similarly to warning shot. But instead of the a large defense penalty being put on the target and a smaller defense penalty put on us, currently we are only getting a defensive penalty put on ourselves and no defense penalty is put on the target.
Maybe with these comparisons to other attacks the devs may be able to reimplement our special abilities in a way that actually works.
guessit
Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:49 am
#45
"Low-Blow and Panic shot, as they exist right now, are redundant in regards to each other, but not useless."
Read the descriptions; Panic shot is supposed to STOP them from attacking for awhile period. Low Blow is supposed to be a KNOCKDOWN.
So instead of actually gettting styles "asadvertised" (and by the way worked FINE before theCU)we got two gimpy ass debuffs that are a waste of action, and dont actually slow them down noticably. (believe me I would have noticed if that lvl 81 was killing me slower!) Why debuff my enemy so he can beat on meMARGINALLY less often,when dmg shots like body shot and reckless shot make him dead?
By the time you lay on the states, you are out of action, your enemy is still VERY alive... and the first states you laid on them are wearing off. I find myself asking "what the hell is the point?"
The only shot in the entire smuggler package that is worthpickingit up for combatis concussion shot which will soon be nerfed into nonexistence, and dont be surprised if when they nerf us, they give us NOTHING in return.
For the rifleman smuggler what would be the reason of staying smuggler then? Stopping shot will be the only option then, and it can be picked up for much less cost. For the pistoleer/smuggler... it will be a grandscale nerfing of an already gimpy combat template.
Raanan
Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:15 pm
#46
/sigh bloody forums making me double post
Message Edited by Raanan on 06-16-2005 06:16 PM
Raanan
Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:16 pm
#47
Low blow and panic shot with their current functionality, suck nuts individually. Stacked together, howerver, they do have a noticable impact on the enemies attack speed. This is not good. We have to use 2 specials to get the functionality of what should be 1 low level (not improved or advanced) status effect special. Perhaps panic shot should be changed to work as low blow and panic shot comibined while low blow should be changed back to a KD.
Restraining shot doesn't work all that well. If you run in a straight line, it's enough to very slowly gain a little distance between yourself and your target. However, with mobs which despawn and other such crap, running away in a straight line isn't a good thing to do in pve unless you want to start over from scratch. In pvp, you need to stay near your group so running in a straight line is also not good. The speed reduction needs a boost. Not a significant boost but a small one, just enough to allow us to maintain distance and stay in the general area we need to be in.
LD is fine. It really is a last ditch. I've yet to succesfully use it.
FD blows. If it's not going to work in pvp then at least let masters use it consistently in pve. I fail as much as I succeed and that's really really annoying.
Overwhelming shot actually works pretty good if we have states worth putting on a target. I used it to make sure concussion stuck last time I fought necrosis.
Reckless shot does good damage but is useless in solo situations because of the defense penelty. My flamer draws too much agro for me to justify any defense penelties. It does damage equivalent to advanced body shot but body shot has no penelty (aside from an unnoticable accuracy penelty). Perhaps reckless needs to do slightly more damage.
Concussion shot has been discussed wwwwwaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy more then enough.
That's my take on our specials post CU.
Overall, pistoleer is by far a better crowd control proffession. All we have going for us is Concussion and Overwhelming. There is no 5 in crowd control.
Message Edited by Raanan on 06-16-2005 06:17 PM
Nicolas_Frost
Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:15 am
#48
guessit wrote:
The only shot in the entire smuggler package that is worth picking it up for combat is concussion shot which will soon be nerfed into nonexistence, and dont be surprised if when they nerf us, they give us NOTHING in return.
Do you really call taking someone or something out of the fight for up to 40 seconds useless? If so, do you even have an idea of what fighting tactically means?
Here, have your very own DumbAss Award.
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