Smuggler Archive
Thread: What does the Smuggling Community want from the Smuggler Revamp?
I came up with an idea back in late october or early november as to how to integrate "slice choice" into all levels of slicing - Not sure how to find that post, or what thread it was in. I'll see if I can look it up and then repost it here for our team to read. Or if someone who is search saavy want to see if they can find it since I am at work, more power to them and a thanks ahead of time.
I am off to a meeting, adios for now, me boyos.
JeffIncredible wrote:
One very quick comment about one of the suggestions. In regards to the choice of what you slice at the master level. If this is a skill given to a Master Smuggler, what use would being a slicer be? Everyone is going to want to decide what stats they'd prefer improved. I did see somewhere that someone suggested having a special type of upgrade kit that allows for choice. If that's made available, it really should be for all level slicing. If it's not then what use is there for the low level slicer. How will you manage to level up? Just a thought.
agree that is shouldn't go to 2 either, lets wait on this discussion though. i should not of started it in this thread. we need to gather all the potential topics here, and break out focus disscusion on em later. this slicing "choice" has been and will be one of the hottest disscusions.
lets let it lie for now, and pick it up in another thread.
Kav wrote:
lets let it lie for now, and pick it up in another thread.
Good call. Now what were we talking about again?
Kav wrote:
agree that is shouldn't go to 2 either, lets wait on this discussion though. i should not of started it in this thread. we need to gather all the potential topics here, and break out focus disscusion on em later. this slicing "choice" has been and will be one of the hottest disscusions.
lets let it lie for now, and pick it up in another thread.
I have nothing against the "Smuggling Colonel", and will soon be one myself once I bother to buy the FP, but that should not be a smuggler's only way to feel like they're using their skillset in this ongoing conflict. There needs to be some acknowledgement of a "neutral fringe element" in the PvP/GCW portion of this game. I want Smuggling to be a possible third "in" to the faction based element of the game, not as a thrid army, but more in a rogue/gun for hire way.
Lots of ways this could play out that would make me happy. It doesn't have to be a pure money making venture - I'm not looking to take anything away from those who sell FP, nor would I be let down by something that didn't have the nearly the same money making potential as FP sales. Money is nice, but this is more about playstyle and content and having fun as a smuggler then making even more cash.
It could play out simply in the way smuggling 'missions' are designed. For example they could somehow tie into who is currently 'winning' the war. If the imps are on the losing side then IMP smuggling terms (available to both imps and neutral smugglers) would give out harder but more profitable missions. Then which missions were completed could be included in the next calculation to see who wins.
Along similar lines - but having to do less with helping a side and more to do with getting caught - have some way to 'register' yourself as a smuggler who consents to PvP and work our missions and other actions into TEF-ish vulnerabilities. Consenting smugglers would get access to missions given by rebels and imps and non-consenting ones would get missions whose storyline is based on other factions (hutts) or individual citizens. Then work misson failures or an imbalance in which side you smuggle for into some sort of TEF system or Jedi/BH like 'visiblity' allowing you to get attacked by the side hunting you down.
Our own missions aren't the only way to work us in, just an easy one to come up with ideas for. Another direction to go would be working smuggler's abilities into other people's missions. Stealing ideas from Jabba's themepark missions and the dev's current love of content via missions and 'monthly' storylines we could also act as middle men in the completetion of other people's missions. Could be as simple as slicing something for someone else to get access to the data on the data disk, or as complex as leveraging our new group "contraband bonuses" to help get something undetected through known rebel areas.
Lots of other ways to go with this idea. The most important part of it all is that idea that those in power on both sides have uses for the services of smugglers and that the role of "corrupt officer able to be bribed for promotions (in the form of FP)" is not the only way that a smuggler can actively participate in the GCW subgame.
I would not like to see ANOTHER tool that I would have to carry to choose slice results ... but I would like it to be a Master Level skill. In response to 'why go to a slicer now?' ... there will always be people that do not want to pay for a Master.
Another thing I failed to mention ... people have mentioned re-working the Underworld tree ... and I know a lot of people feel that it is a worthless skill ... but I really do like the language comprehension skill. I worked very hard to UNLEARN all of the languages because of that skill and I like understanding Lekku and talking to dancers in the cantinas ... it is fun when most people only understand 1/2 of a conversation.
I posted this only once before, in the concept thread. About time I posted this here as well. Nothing has changed since the time I posted this, so it's pretty much un-edited.
* * *
Post is verylong, so here's an outline:
Underworld - trading faction points isn't enough. Give us evasion skills based on Jedi-like TEF.
Spices - smugglers should smuggle spice, not "cook" it. Give us Spice missions, just as BH and entertainers have their missions.
Slicing - we should slice more terminals and containers, than guns and armor. Masters should be able to pick which attribute to slice (dmg vs speed, for example).
Dirty Figthing - currently the only thing that makes sense (sorta)in Smuggler Prof. Give us couple melee specials (or melee skill modifiers), and special weapons.
conclusions - Answering some of the posed questions
Underworld. There is no underworld in SWG. Unless the players RP it, of course. The reason to have a whole tree just to trade faction points doesn't make any sense. This should be turned into the underworld AND smuggling tree. And for that we need some smuggling content. There are dozens ideas on how to make a smuggler smuggle in the Smuggler forum, and this is just one of them:
Create an illegal goods TEF, appliable to Smugglers only. Just like Jedis have a TEF. Smugglers will get a TEF every time they equip, use, craft, trade, or may be even just carry, a smuggler specific item - precision laser knife, molecular clamp, flow analyzer nod, upgrade kit, and of course - all spice. This should work similar to Jedi acquiring TEF when lightsaber and/or force powers are used. The TEF should make seucrity forces of all kind to attempt to search smugglers. The underworld tree will give an evasion skill modifier, which will determine a chance from escaping these attempts. This can be tied to the Imperial Crackdown, where Imperial patrols have ability to shake down players.
Note, this is just an addition to an underworld tree. And just one of the many "smuggling" ideas that been proposed so far. Some of the present underwolrd skills are probably worth keeping, because trading faction points became one of the most important jobs of the faction alligned smugglers.
Spices. Smugglers should besmuggling them, not making them. The best way to do that, is to create static NPCs, similar to Bounty Hunter spynet agents, that would supply Smugglers either with the spice itself, or with resources needed to craft spices. This would make spice more of a contraband, than the craftable food-drug thingywe currently have. In fact, acquiring spice from a static NPC and selling it to players might be a mission, rewardable with Spice xp and cash. Moving up the spice tree should open up new spices available for trade. In case ofincompletion of such a spice mission, a smuggler should geta negative status with Spice-selling NPCs. The lower the reputation, the more probability that a bounty will be placed on an unsuccesful smuggler by an NPC faction. (should be similar to Jedi bounties.)
- Add more spice. Especially the types that are mentioned in EU materials. (Or at least give us a good reason why it can't be done).The fact isthat lesser spices are barely used. A novice smuggler usually practice-crafts Shadowpaw all the way to the top, because Muon Gold and Neutron Pixie are the only spices that are selling. Revamp other spices in such a manner that all of them would have a use.
- A word on spice experimentation - should stayun-experimental. Instead of giving us ability to experiment, give us more variety and improve current spices, so that every player can find something to their liking.
Slicing. In SW this word simply stand for hacking. You slice into the network, computer, security system, etc. Thus, slicing into a terminal mission makes sense. Slicing into armor - doesn't. Thus, smugglers should be spending more time slicing into terminals, and less time trying to find blue and red wire between armor layers. Smugglers should have ability to slice pretty much everything that they run into. To stay true to the spirit of SW, I think that following terminals has to be sliceable:
a) Mission Terminals (higher payout),
b) Ticket terminals (lower price, may be shortcut trips, i.e. from Dantooine to Naboo without a need to change ships on Corellia),
c) Insurance and Cloning terminals (reduction in costs)
d) Faction HQ terminals. All Master Smuglersshould be able to view almost all information on a HQ terminal.
e) Containers. Works good as it is. Adding more containers would be nice. Fixing containers so that other players could use them after the slice, would be awesome.
e) all the current jazz - weapons and armor. Give Master Smugglers ability to pre-select the ouctome (i.e. choise to slice either for damage, or speed). But the randomnessshould definately stay even at Master level - more risk factor that way.
f) make the quality of upgrade kits determine the % range of an improvement. i.e., better quality kits would yield higher % range results than lesser kits. Again,the randomness of increase (decrease)should stay, to keep thing more interesting.
g) It would be great to see either slicing missions (which could be a different type of a mission availalbe from the same place where spice missions would be available). Or may be some quests, where a smuggler would be needed to complete it.
Dirty Fighting. Currently the only Smuggler tree that works. However, most of the smuggler players get some Pistoleer skills, since DF tree doesn't offer much of the skill modifiers. Giving the fact that smugglers rely more on subtetly than brute force, DF skill tree should have some rogue-like modifiers - accuracy on move, firing speed, dodge, etc. Also, some special unarmed moves would be great as well (just couple vague ideas):
a) Eye Shot punch (blind),
b) Low Blow kick (KD),
c) Last Ditch combo (area melee attack),
d)Smuggler profession is a hybrid one, with most of "hybrid-ness" coming from combat skills. Thus, many smuggler players feel that we need our special weapons, since all other combat professinos do. Many suggestions have been made on which weapons should smugglers call their own. Personally, I like these two - Brass Knuckler (a bit worse than vibro knuckler), and a Bryar Pistol (from Dark Forces PC game series), which should be either the fastest, or the most accurate pistol. There is also an idea for a secial untradable powerup thatSmuggler could craft themsevles and attached to the weapon of their choice through craft/slice operation. Such powerup will make the weapon untradable as well.
a) Smuggler TEF - acquired by carryinf or using a smuggler proffesion related item/tool, or spice (taking, carrying, trading, crafting, etc.). Can only be aquired by Smugglers. (Similar to Jedi and their lightsabers/force powers). Such a TEF will make NPC security forces attempt to "scan" smugglers for the contraband. Smuggler's undeworld skills will determine % of successful evasion of such scans. Successful evasion will be awarded with underworld XP. (similar toscouting XP for mask scent). Unsuccesful evasion wil result either in a cash penalty, or, on refuse to pay up, a combat situation, where local security forces will try to apprehend the violnet, armed, and dangerous criminal.
b) Spice mission can be acquired by a smuggler through an underworld contact - a static NPCs (similar to BH spynet agents). The missions -- asmuggler is given a certain amount of spice and a time period (in days) to sell it. Several missions will be offered, differentiated by cash award, spice type, and time limit. Different underworld factions (Valarian, Hutt, Black Sun) should be listed asauthors of such missions. Success will be awarded with spice and underworld XP, the author's faction standing, and a cash bonus. Failure to sell spice in time will result in negative function from the mission's listed author and create a negative repuation with mission giving NPCs, where too much negative reputation (i.e. after15 failures) a player bounty will be placed on a smuggler, accessible by player BH. (similar to BH getting bounties for Jedi) (Another way to do this, is to have NPC give smugglers decayable resources to make spice, where decay will act as a time limit.)
c)Other smuggler missions - proceed to a certain target, slice a terminal, download data (like in Warren and Nym's Qest - slicinga terminal and geeting a data-disk in your datapad), and may be return to the origination point. Slicing will give Slicing XP, and the mission will give Underworld XP. Plus the cash and the listed author faction points.
Message Edited by JediKozel on 02-20-2004 01:44 PM
I thought I'd noodle up some ideas about smuggling in general. I know some of it is the same crap I've been arguing for but I felt necessary to put it in. These are just a list of ideas about smuggling in general:
Underworld and Smuggling:
First of all the Crackdown needs to get jacked up:
A: MORE stormtroopers, stronger stormtroopers, endless storm troopers. Like the guards in EQ. Overwhelm the rebels. If that doesn’t do anything but cause lag, no faction points given on Scanning crews. After all, you just got caught. You get no influence for that.
B: Stiffer fines for neutrals. Forget faction loss. Neutrals could care less. Hit’em in the pocket book. After all isn’t this supposed to be a corrupt empire?
C: Imperials. Not to flog a dead horse but this immunity thing has to go. Why worry about buying illegal goods if no one is going to bust you? Illegal cable is more of a hardship. At the very least could we bump this “perk” to Colonel? You gotta buy your way ALL the way to the top.
D: Make droid compartments scannable. They can have a percentage to pass the scan due to ray shielding and sensor masking, but make them a risk. Make the droids that ARE masked and shielded illegal. Make it an illegal modification, that subjects the owner to the same penalties of any contraband.
E: MORE scans. More scans in more places. How about hospitals? All’s fair in love and war. How about near large city entrances? The entrances are avoidable but it at least adds a feeling of “oppression.” More scans in the wild. Those roving bands of Imperials I’ve seen just hanging around? How about they scan me instead of looking at me funny? Give THEM speeder bikes. Or roadblocks that automatically stop me if I fly through. Something. Anything. Make people WORRY about getting busted.
F: Decriminalize possession. Yeah you heard me. Set a limit that triggers it. 1 Dose. 5. 1 crate. Anything equipped won’t get set off. Something along those lines. Whatever it is, anything less and you WON’T get busted. The purpose of this is to allow penalties for possession to be steep, without punishing the populace for buying our stuff. They can buy it, and they can keep it, but they maybe less inclined to travel with their whole kit, crates of muon, and ten sliced weapons, and two suits of sliced armor. And it’s still dangerous for us to travel with large amounts of sliced items and spices. Also it forces weapon smiths and armor smiths who TRAFFIC in “illegal” goods by the CRATE to ask us to move it for them. It creates a need.
Smuggler Missions:
Until player oriented missions come along, and that code gets all settled actual smuggling is going to be difficult. Like the bounty hunters we are probably going to have to go through our “terminal” phase. But let’s not use terminals. Let’s let NPC faction actually MEAN something. Instead of getting my “smuggling” mission from a terminal, allow me to get it from NPC’s I have a certain factional rating with, say…500. The higher my faction with them, the higher paying and higher risk the missions are. Now, obviously these are going to be “delivery” missions with gunfire, but it beats nothing. The beauty of it is, all the mechanics are in place. On the way from Point A to Point B, the NPC factions’ natural enemies spawn and attack you. You’ll already have SOME negative rating with them, getting a positive rating with the other. Also, as the complexity and difficulty of the missions increase, not only would the factional enemies grow more numerous and difficult but more than one faction would spawn chasing you. Do a mission for Jabba from one of his swoop gangs and not only would Valerian’s people chase you, but so would, oh say, Corsec or something.
Player Smuggling:
I think the key to getting players to accept illicit goods having serious risk is to decriminalize what we would term “possession” and heavily “prosecute” people who have “intent to sell.” In short, define by amount of illegal goods, as noted earlier. This doesn’t just apply to weapons and armor and weapon smiths, but also to anything else later added to the “contraband” list, which should be long and distinguished. The penalties shouldn’t affect, necessarily the people who buy the goods, as long as they only carry around, a “little” contraband, but more affect the crafting populace, who should have incentive for us to run his product to his vendors FOR him. Like I said. These are just my suggestions.
Something to make the master box worth attaining (for a neutral):
- Simplified slicing. We are masters we should be able to slice faster if not choose directly.
- Put some decent spices under master (spices should be twisted anyhow, but I shall cover that in the appropriate thread).
- A cert for an AP1 DL44 there sounds nice as well; since we don't get any mods anyhow. Perhaps even an AP1 Katar for the melee types.