Smuggler Archive
Thread: Jedi love from DEV's...makes me think
Secondly, double park the high horse and don't pretend that your exercising a right to post was somehow infringed upon by someone forcefully suggesting that you either post in the right place or shuffle up and deal with what has been handed out instead of deciding to keep blaming a group of players for unwanted attention, and at the same time wanting to hunt them down for it. Misplaced logic about other players aside, you might contemplate that it is precisely this kind of thread that keeps the developers from taking the boards seriously...indeed these threads may be the reason that they hardly seem to use them...
As for wanting Jedi to roleplay what you've seen in the movies and read about in EU despite the system that was created for them...this shows absolutely no logic. You're permanently overt, if you let on that you're a Jedi to others in the game there is a high likelihood that they will either challenge you to a duel or trash talk your for "pushing back their fixes," there is no content for you but an empty building in the middle of nowhere Yavin, and the only way to advance is to kill hundreds of people. What exactly is it that you want these players to roleplay...people pissed that they spent hours of their lives only to become some sort of leet PvPer, despite hopes of real content being created for them? The elements of the game are what drive the roleplay. Heck, there isn't even a way to actually roleplay a Jedi as shown in the movies or EU in this game... There's no interactive enclave, no special missions that need doing...and for good reason...because SOE just shoe-horned Jedi into the game with no thought on how they would interact with the game dynamic so they could sell a few more copies to people that wanted to become one.
I might also point out that no class seems to be very interested in RPing in this game, as there is no means or need to. I'm a smuggler that can't smuggle, I sell information (faction) to the other side at an insane loss, the people I slice items for are more likely to get in trouble for them than I am as the true criminal...the list goes on. Probably the only non-crafter class that has a good system set up for RPing in this game is BH, and it seems that the BH we have now are mostly interested in RPing disgruntled players that want to hunt Jedi players for distinctly NON-RP reasons. This is the reason I believe that this is yet another excuse to call in against Jedi... They have no means by which to RP, yet everyone expects it of them. Meanwhile, very few BH bother to RP even though their dynamic would suggest it, and no smugglers that I've ever known bother to even try to RP...most just spam their willingness to illegally break imperial law in altering weapons and armor within earshot of an imperial recruiter and his staff in Theed...
If you read their boards before everyone hated and flamed the Jedi for "being made uber" and "ruining the game" you would have noticed that Jedi seemed united on only really wanting one thing...a fix for force regeneration... Granted there were cries by some wanting more power and the such, just like any profession, but this was the one main thing...at least when I was looking at them... And for good reason...Jedi had the world on a string back then... Now they're little better than any stacked melee class, still have no content since FRS is just a glorified version of PvP ranking that anyone has...minus a few largely worthless features, and they get to be hated for this bad attention paid to them...
So again I'll say it...when will people move on and either live with the combination of what the game is and has promise to be, and stop complaining about Jedi and making threads about how they want to hunt them down? For the love of all that's holy...
Oh, and 1 more thing....
(RE:FRS system killings) "I had thought that this was a bug to be adressed in publish 10."
Is it just me or is this just a shameless attempt to sound "up on things..." How exactly was a system that was introduced a bug that was going to be fixed in the publish that introduces the trials? A knight is made a perma-overt member of a faction, and advances by gaining XP for killing members of the other faction. Furthermore, he has to kill even more to keep up with the rate of XP loss due to maintenance. This is the FRS system...not a bug. I would like to know what you thought FRS was going to be, what you thought the bug was, and exactly how you thought it was going to be fixed...
TheLemming wrote:
First, you have all the right in the world to complain about the Jedi system...it would just be nice if it was done constructively and in the right place. Balance issues in the GCW forum, etc. It might be a shocker, but threads like this will likely not greet any developer that decides to actually pop in for ideas. True, we do have some good ones in the stickied threads, but there have been hundreds of great ideas that have been shuffled off into the great unknown by these misdirected outbursts about another class. Many of them that might have amounted to something.
I agree that there's a place for the discussion of such balance issues (although the deletion of some posts regarding the FRS issue on the GCW forum doesn't exactly encourage such discussion in the proper place), but the original post had some relevance to the profession - how to make a template that enabled the user to take on Jedi while still remaining a master smuggler.
Secondly, double park the high horse and don't pretend that your exercising a right to post was somehow infringed upon by someone forcefully suggesting that you either post in the right place or shuffle up and deal with what has been handed out instead of deciding to keep blaming a group of players for unwanted attention, and at the same time wanting to hunt them down for it. Misplaced logic about other players aside, you might contemplate that it is precisely this kind of thread that keeps the developers from taking the boards seriously...indeed these threads may be the reason that they hardly seem to use them...
I wasn't stating that my right to post was infringed upon, it's just that the crass manner in which you stated your desire for it to be annoyed me somewhat. In my experience of people communicating via the internet, those thatsay "**edit**" are idiotic self obsessed morons who care next to nothing of others in the online enviroment around them. I'm sorry for labelling you in such a way, but it usually sets sparks off in my head and this was no exception.As for my horse, I'll stay on it thank you; horsey and I have had some great times together and I'm not willing to give that up.
As for wanting Jedi to roleplay what you've seen in the movies and read about in EU despite the system that was created for them...this shows absolutely no logic. You're permanently overt, if you let on that you're a Jedi to others in the game there is a high likelihood that they will either challenge you to a duel or trash talk your for "pushing back their fixes," there is no content for you but an empty building in the middle of nowhere Yavin, and the only way to advance is to kill hundreds of people. What exactly is it that you want these players to roleplay...people pissed that they spent hours of their lives only to become some sort of leet PvPer, despite hopes of real content being created for them? The elements of the game are what drive the roleplay. Heck, there isn't even a way to actually roleplay a Jedi as shown in the movies or EU in this game... There's no interactive enclave, no special missions that need doing...and for good reason...because SOE just shoe-horned Jedi into the game with no thought on how they would interact with the game dynamic so they could sell a few more copies to people that wanted to become one.
Well, what can I say, other than work with what we've got. I'll admit what you describe is bloody aweful, but to a lesser extent we're all in the same boat; the game seriously lacks content that encourages and helps sustain role play. Smugglers are a great example of this - they're essentially slice monkies. With that roll, you've the option of standing in some star port spamming away, slicing things quickly and with little interaction/RP, or you can wait for people to approach you, either from seeing your title or from references from others and then interact with them in an RP manner, saying some daft things about not getting caught (because lets face it, the chances of anyone getting caught from a scan are next to null
), "you don't know me, right?" and all the rest.
I slice items for are more likely to get in trouble for them than I am as the true criminal...the list goes on. Probably the only non-crafter class that has a good system set up for RPing in this game is BH, and it seems that the BH we have now are mostly interested in RPing disgruntled players that want to hunt Jedi players for distinctly NON-RP reasons. This is the reason I believe that this is yet another excuse to call in against Jedi... They have no means by which to RP, yet everyone expects it of them. Meanwhile, very few BH bother to RP even though their dynamic would suggest it, and no smugglers that I've ever known bother to even try to RP...most just spam their willingness to illegally break imperial law in altering weapons and armor within earshot of an imperial recruiter and his staff in Theed...
Where there's a will, there's a way. That's not rhetoric bulls**t, but a simple fact - there are people in the game that manage to RP a whole darn lot.
If you read their boards before everyone hated and flamed the Jedi for "being made uber" and "ruining the game" you would have noticed that Jedi seemed united on only really wanting one thing...a fix for force regeneration... Granted there were cries by some wanting more power and the such, just like any profession, but this was the one main thing...at least when I was looking at them... And for good reason...Jedi had the world on a string back then... Now they're little better than any stacked melee class, still have no content since FRS is just a glorified version of PvP ranking that anyone has...minus a few largely worthless features, and they get to be hated for this bad attention paid to them...
The few times I did read their boards before publish 9 (this was several months before hand) the few posts I did look at were either self congratulatory over getting there in the first place (fair enough, grinding is hell) or flaming the heck out of none Jedi that came to post there. I'll admit that was some months ago, but from that experience I just didn't bother going back there.
So again I'll say it...when will people move on and either live with the combination of what the game is and has promise to be, and stop complaining about Jedi and making threads about how they want to hunt them down? For the love of all that's holy...
When the system is changed or when JtL comes out (at least for a while after anyway)
Oh, and 1 more thing....
(RE:FRS system killings) "I had thought that this was a bug to be adressed in publish 10."
Is it just me or is this just a shameless attempt to sound "up on things..." How exactly was a system that was introduced a bug that was going to be fixed in the publish that introduces the trials? A knight is made a perma-overt member of a faction, and advances by gaining XP for killing members of the other faction. Furthermore, he has to kill even more to keep up with the rate of XP loss due to maintenance. This is the FRS system...not a bug. I would like to know what you thought FRS was going to be, what you thought the bug was, and exactly how you thought it was going to be fixed...
It's just you
You seem somewhat annoyed with the tone in which I replied to your post. If I offended you with it then I appologise, but please realise it was a reflection of your own post's somewhat brash style.
fishbrains wrote:
korvass wrote:Jedi (Knights especially) can block pretty much everything you can throw at them. In practices, with a mixed group of (masters) Riflemen, TKs, Fencers, Commandos, BHs and Swordsmen, it takes around 7 people to take down a Knight. This is about right as far as I can see.. Knights should (and are) be insanely powerful..However, Jedi are susceptible to grenades and boom-droids. They can't block grenades (and good proton grenades can do around 5k+ damage) and even MSE boom-bots can halve a Jedi's mind.Kedi Knights can be solod by a melee profession. I've killed knights one on one before with my TKM skills.
By "a melee profession" you mean TKM with defenses stacked from other professions, yes? If you mean just TKM, I'll say that Ebay jedi knights don't count.
To the original poster I'll say that if you really want to hunt Jedi just wait for the next publish and hunt all the ones working on their FS trees. At that stage a noob marksman with his "my first CDEF" kit could probably kill them. Or you can just target the ones that got stupid skills or hardly any skills when they picked the new ones.
Beyond that, when will you people finally S T F U about "jedi getting all the love?" Jedi didn't get any love, they got a gaffi stick in the behind until the general combat balance on the last publish. Jedi could kill someone in 80% comp faster before the publish if they had a decent saber, and leveling was a boatload easier. Calling what the Jedi class got "love" is like saying that swordsman bleeds got "fixed" and the swordsmen felt the "love." I won't even play my jedi anymore since 90% of my time is spent trying to recover force, which I completely spend on each spawn of a lair (due to damage being nil without specials).
Oh, and to the guy that seems to think that Jedi should be RPing a unique class instead of killing everything with a TEF or overt...take that up with the devs. That is exactly the kind of behavior dictated by the current FRS for knights, and yet another reason I don't play on my Jedi atm. After grinding out millions of XP I get to go around and gank hundreds of people and be spammed by hate tells to gain a FRS rank that will be taken away with maintenance loss the next day? Yay for new Jedi content!
Now if you don't mind, can we get back to discussing smuggler issues on the smuggler board? I've had about enough of people calling those silly enough to grind out a Jedi lucky/spoiled to have a Jedi (aka a BH group ganked, grinding like a mofo, one day to graduate to gank squad member). If you want to cry about them, go on over to the Jedi board. You'll find many of the same mind (the ones putting 1 star on posts trying to create content/report bugs and burying everything in flame posts).
TheLemming wrote:
By "a melee profession" you mean TKM with defenses stacked from other professions, yes? If you mean just TKM, I'll say that Ebay jedi knights don't count.
To the original poster I'll say that if you really want to hunt Jedi just wait for the next publish and hunt all the ones working on their FS trees. At that stage a noob marksman with his "my first CDEF" kit could probably kill them. Or you can just target the ones that got stupid skills or hardly any skills when they picked the new ones.
Not likely, they can keep the majority of their profession skill boxes, as the only SP you have to spend is 1 SP for novice and 1 SP for master of a FS profession.
Beyond that, when will you people finally S T F U about "jedi getting all the love?" Jedi didn't get any love, they got a gaffi stick in the behind until the general combat balance on the last publish. Jedi could kill someone in 80% comp faster before the publish if they had a decent saber, and leveling was a boatload easier. Calling what the Jedi class got "love" is like saying that swordsman bleeds got "fixed" and the swordsmen felt the "love." I won't even play my jedi anymore since 90% of my time is spent trying to recover force, which I completely spend on each spawn of a lair (due to damage being nil without specials).
While I'm glad they fixed the hologrind debacle and are now replacing it with a new system, I know they could quite easily have spent just one publish on it and left out the FRS andactual Jedi profession revamp until a later date, enabling them to spend one publish at least getting alarge chunk of the combat revamp done. I will not"S T F U" as youput it, as I enjoy exercising my right to post on these forums. Please learn some manners and show some common courtesy to your fellow community members.
I don't find it unreasonable that peoplecomplain that two publishes have been spent on one profession, where one would likely have sufficed, when there are so many game wide unbalancing issues, broken systems andother professions in just as much need, if not more, of attention. Please do not presume totell peoplethat they shouldn't be miffed at the fact that, despite being told forover a year they were going to "see some love", yet have those promises come to naught and to then see aprofession, a minority profession at that, receive the attention they have been coveting for so long.
Oh, and to the guy that seems to think that Jedi should be RPing a unique class instead of killing everything with a TEF or overt...take that up with the devs. That is exactly the kind of behavior dictated by the current FRS for knights, and yet another reason I don't play on my Jedi atm. After grinding out millions of XP I get to go around and gank hundreds of people and be spammed by hate tells to gain a FRS rank that will be taken away with maintenance loss the next day? Yay for new Jedi content!
I had thought that this was a bug to be adressed in publish 10. If I'm wrong, then you're right, it's largely the Dev's fault for implementing such a flawed system. However, there are those Jedi who seem to revel in the fact that they are able,and indeed required by the system in order to advance, to gain massively from slaughtering as many people as possible for FRS XP. The GCW is already in a dire state, this has been considerabley worsened now that people have a very large incentive not to go overt or gain a TEF. As for role playing, incase you hadn't noticed, this is a MMOrole playinggame. One would hope that those in the limelight would do their best to encourage others to enjoy RP elements, or at least not interfere with other's efforts to RP by being so obviously out of character and immersion breaking.
Now if you don't mind, can we get back to discussing smuggler issues on the smuggler board? I've had about enough of people calling those silly enough to grind out a Jedi lucky/spoiled to have a Jedi (aka a BH group ganked, grinding like a mofo, one day to graduate to gank squad member). If you want to cry about them, go on over to the Jedi board. You'll find many of the same mind (the ones putting 1 star on posts trying to create content/report bugs and burying everything in flame posts).
I'd love to do that, but unfortunately right now the one Dev that is working with us has gone silent (likely due to either being over worked, he is doing this in his own time afterall, or wanting to let the boards simmer down after the lava spillage that's taken place recently) and the devs that could be working on us are seemingly very occupied with getting publish 10 done and dusted so that the Jedi system will finally be complete. In case you hand't noticed almost every avenue for expanding, extending and revamping smuggler has been explored and discussed over the past year, with numerous revampand state of the profession docs.
By all means, feel free to discuss something that in all likely hood hasbeen gone overseveral times. Until GM shows up again however, unless you have some questions specific to the current state of the profession, anything and everything smuggler related that you discuss will merely be academic.
Message Edited by WesBelden on 07-24-2004 01:01 PM