Smuggler Archive
Thread: Community Tone
I’ve thought about posting about this for some time, but not really known how to go about it; I’m just ‘zis guy, you know? No mod, higher-echelon figure or whatever, you lot are my peers and as such I have a hard time thinking, “I need to tell them how to behave.” because I have no right to.
Well, obviously I’ve come up with something, otherwise there wouldn’t be this god awful post for you to read through, so here it is:
The main goal of this community for the past 28 months has been a singular one, to have its profession’s namesake, smuggling, implemented in a reasonable and worthwhile manner in SWG.
However, of late, if not the mainstay of posts, certainly some of the most vocal and heated, have been about both
- What other professions are receiving through development that we for one reason or another ‘should’ get instead or as well as
- Communication / slating of development time for other professions receiving fixes and not being too happy about it.
Indeed, they seem to be a hindrance, both fracturing the community and causing tempers to flare, while simultaneously showing off our bad side and dropping the focus of wanting Smuggling in game (at least in what is presented to the developers and their bosses).
“I want what they have.” and, “I want mine first.” are two statements that smack of childishness; yes there is a history, one that could be seen to justify such demands from various perspectives, but from the perspective of the guy in a grey suit it’s not going to look favourable and it’s not going to continue to ring “Smuggling is needed.”
Zane made the point that the developers have thought of Smuggling as an addition of content, where as we’ve thought of it as fixing something that should have been in the game from the start. I think this was the case for a very long time, but as I’ve said, I believe they now are on the same page (not sure which paragraph though) as we are now.
I for one do not want that attitude to change, especially not because we were looked at and not taken seriously anymore because of a change in focus between Smuggling to inwardly tearing each other apart and yelling at other professions.
Now don’t get me wrong, this is in no way a dig at anyone who posts on these forums; rather, it is me trying to talk about the way I see and feel about things and what I hope to see happen.
What I believe is needed is a return to focusing on and discussing the game enabling and supporting Smuggling within its systems. Admittedly most parts of Smuggling have been discussed ad nauseam, but there are still things that can be talked about.
I’m not entirely sure where I’m going with this post, other than I just want to try and imbue my thoughts about this community and hopefully help to get it back to where it once was, strong in numbers, solidarity, will power and comradeship, all with the same goal of seeing Smuggling in game, while picking up on things other players have in common, rather than jumping on those things that are different.
Here is my take on the current mood. Most of us are pissed. Communication is a two way street and I think a lot of us can't see the point of discussing hypothetical changes and it doesn't seam to be very productive to do so.
I respect you as our correspondent but to be fare exactly how much communication actually goes on between you and the DEV's, my guess mate would be very little. Over the past two years we've laughed, we've cried we've kissed ass, (We dig da Tiggs
) and done just about everything to get what we felt was lacking from our profession. And unfortunately we've got very little. It's not your fault, it aint our fault, the blame can firmly be rested at the door of SOE.
Anyone who has been here or read the history can see a string of broken promises and shattered dreams.
This is why people here are so frustrated. There is no point playing a game where you opponent holds all the cards, makes up the rules and can declare I WIN! at any time they feel like it.
This is why the people are complaining about other profs getting attention, were mad, were pissed off and were jealous. And we have every right to be. Were not having a go at the other profs so much as having a go, again, at SOE and how it chooses to prioritise its resources.
Any way my recommendation, just go play the game. We get smuggler missions when SOE feels like it and not before. Nothing we can do or say will change that. I’ve got 2 years of broken promises to back me up. Don't get me wrong Wes mate I think you do a great job as our correspondent, but I think your being hamstrung by the lack of communication coming from the DEV's.
Personally I'm gona play the game and wait till the smuggler missions reach in development and then we can open a proper dialogue with the DEV's about them. Until then they really don't exist in any real form. 
Message Edited by Mystique2000uk on 10-08-2005 01:36 PM
There arefour types of Smuggler:
- Those that want to BE a Smuggler
- Those that just want the Smuggler combat abilities
- Those that are a mix of the above (typicaly named "dabblers" )
- Those that just don't care
Right now, the first types have either left or are so dis-heartened over recent events that they've been quietened down and so the second type of Smuggler has become more vocal. No offense to the second type of Smuggler, but they are NOT the type of people that will get Smuggler it's changes and fixes required simply because their only interest in the profression is holding some kind of special that makes them better than anyone else. The second type see Smuggler only as a combat profression and therefore use it as such as where the first kind see it as something way beyound that, the "combat" side of Smuggler is like a pin-**edit** on the skin of the smuggler world.
So, Smuggler A and Smuggler B begin to get annoyed with each other and the mighty land of Forum Fight is born. This land is where all the little trolls live and whenever the sun shines over it's shores they poke their little heads out of the ground and suddenly you have a split community and a flamed forum.
If things are to change, thenI think we need to do several of the following:
- Emphasis the community ideas again. Create a sticky post that is just links and briefs of as many of the good ideas this community has come up with that we can remember/find. I know I personaly made several "idea" threads that the community liked and bumped.
- Make a sticky thread about what it is to be a smuggler to try and help the combat and dabbler types understand how much more there is and could be to the profression they are voicing here on the forums.
- Drop the whole "I was here from day one therefore I am better than you" attitude that many of the older smuggler's seem to have gained. It's not helping matters and is quite insulting to others to see someone say "if it wasn't for me, this guy, another guy an Bob we wouldn't even have gotten this far". It didn't take 10 people to keep this community alive it took every damn member of it.
*gives Wes a wedgey an runs away giggling like a girl*
Message Edited by Vampiric_Hoshi on 10-08-2005 01:35 PM
Vampiric_Hoshi wrote:
There arefour types of Smuggler:
- Those that want to BE a Smuggler
- Those that just want the Smuggler combat abilities
- Those that are a mix of the above (typicaly named "dabblers" )
- Those that just don't care
You forgot one.
- Those of us who ARE Smugglers.
ARRRR.
Ok well i'm not a huge poster and usually post only if its something that interests me or involves beer 
but in comparason to a few months back i havent posted at all. This is down to seeing a shift in the way the community was acting, everyones seen it so its nothing new. I believe were at that stage where we really think smuggling will be getting added (again) but also very very close to when SOE usually tell us its not happening or use some other BS excuse. Through many factors (both in game and RL) i found myself taking a break from the game. Its been 7 days so far and i realised something really dire. I didnt miss the game one bit. The first time i thought about the game was last night when i was thinking about having a short blast but decieded against it since all id do is stand around in eisley and be bored.
Sorry for digressing there
The Smuggler community was one of the most tight knit and fun lovin professions around. We were about having fun and a joke and a laugh between ourselves and the fellow neglected proffs. I'm sick of coming to this forum and seeing people act in such a childish many i would probably hit them on the head with a newspaper if i saw them in the street. I will not point fingers or single people out but simply utter a few words. Stop it, i'm serious, stop it. There are much more important matters to discuss here and we do not need this community D-generating anymore. Yes were smugglers we're supposed to be degenerates but we're degenerates that get s**t done
With the new "In Concept" papers we saw people started discussing again and (like it was described by a previous poster here) there are many different groups of "smugglers" in this forum, groups who have completely different opinions on what and how smuggler should work.
At the end of the day we all wear the smuggler tag and we all have to understand each other's position (all of them are valid). Yes there are people who'd like smuggler to only be able to interact ATK without bazaars and all that (that's the position I have) but I understand why people would like to disagree, that shouldn't be the reason to start calling people "Role-playing dumba$$" or "not a real smuggler".
Let's just put the thought that nothing good will happen in this concept phase aside and focus a little. The random flames really need to stop, this forum should get it's own attitude back, a different state of mind so many other forums have.
We all are SWG's smugglers and we all should focus on improving our profession without trying to get things that are suggested for the rangers "because it should be ours". Nothing good comes from taking other people's stuff (apart from their money for your service ... oh so much money
), good comes from giving back to this community and others. I haven't been posting a lot here in the last few weeks since the already described "elite from the beginning smuggler attitude" has annoyed me sometimes, but I think I'll try to get in touch here again more. Maybe this Post by Wes can be a new, fresh start for this community, a fresh start with beer, pie and Twi'lek dancers.
Negative? Sure. Realistic? Probably.
Hell, anyone on Starsider want to make a friendly wager? You can't possibly lose anything, and you'll gain... uh, an X-wing hologram.
That's right, an X-wing hologram if Smugglers ever get anything. Losing a holo is a small price to pay if Smugglers get something.
*Disclaimer* Anything as bad as the Sanford and Sons content does not count as "something," or "anything."
DoMakk wrote:Wonderful, calm, level-headed post, Wes.
Thank you.
Yea, it's almost as if he were a... JEDI!!!!
Iawo wrote:See, the thing that really rubs me raw is that some of you insist that you are better than the rest of us just because you started before us. I have news for you, people come and go all the time in MMO's, so get used to older smugglers leaving. It happens, and it's going to continue happening. The sooner you embrace the newer smugglers, the sooner you will be able to relax a little. It's quite clear that whining and complaining, acting like two year olds isn't working. It's time to move on and try a different approach again IMO.
But I don't wanna.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Iawo wrote:
See, the thing that really rubs me raw is that some of you insist that you are better than the rest of us just because you started before us. I have news for you, people come and go all the time in MMO's, so get used to older smugglers leaving. It happens, and it's going to continue happening. The sooner you embrace the newer smugglers, the sooner you will be able to relax a little. It's quite clear that whining and complaining, acting like two year olds isn't working. It's time to move on and try a different approach again IMO.
But I don't wanna.
OMG, he's back! Just couldn't stay away could ya?
First time I've actually logged into the game though since the CU beta...
Iawo wrote:See, the thing that really rubs me raw is that some of you insist that you are better than the rest of us just because you started before us. I have news for you, people come and go all the time in MMO's, so get used to older smugglers leaving. It happens, and it's going to continue happening. The sooner you embrace the newer smugglers, the sooner you will be able to relax a little. It's quite clear that whining and complaining, acting like two year olds isn't working. It's time to move on and try a different approach again IMO.
The funny thing is I agree with this post and have felt it myself here many times. What's funny is I've played since day one and only one profession held my heart, smuggler. But since I didn't register to the forum until much later (I preferred to spend my time playing rather than posting), I never felt part of the old timer crowd. Although back then this place was filled with a good spirit where any question was answered and the number of off topic and entertaining posts was many. It was a good time until the day I started an off topic post that was along the lines of many other off topic posts (it was the time of who would beat up who posts) and an old timer utterly flamed me for making an off topic post and told me to go away and post somewhere else. Ever since then I stoppped really thinking of this place as home although in my heart it was.
I've spent a lot of time watching posts and posters come and go and while I respect a lot of old timers, my fellow old times, individually, the attitude of the group or the veteran group dynamic has grown increasingly antagonistic and elitist of people who aren't part of their little club. I think this was made worse with the CU and the surge of new respec smugglers, which is really sad. This isn't some private club only the true blue day one smugglers can belong to, no I feel it's the more the merrier. I'm kind of glad of the infusion of new blood, many of whom quickly took up the banner of our beleagured profession only to be slapped down and branded second class citizens by a small and dominant group of elitist old timers.
Sad, but I don't think they realize this attitude is doing more to destroy the community than SOE ever could have dreamed of. I know this because I was there when SOE through some pretty harsh things our way and we always kept the faith and the community...now it seems as though the community is falling apart. The old timers are leaving, some because they are tired of waiting for SOE to realize the potential of a fully realized smuggler profession, some because they didn't get the respect (or worship) from the newcomers they felt they deserve.
It's sad that the few people who remain from that core that made this community so open and accepting of any who wanted to call themselves smuggler would become so unwilling to let anyone in on the fun.
Another thing I've noticed is a rise in trolls who seem to want to stir things up, create dissention and foster resentment for other professions who get the love before us. I can't really point out anyone in particular, nor would I (It would serve no purpose), but I have had enough experience with forums to know ubertrolls when I see them.
I'd like to think there would be a way to regain the spirit and the community we once had here, but I don't think we can. And maybe we shouldn't because things have changed and maybe we should to. Just because we can't go back to the good community we once had, don't mean we can't build a new, better one. The only thing stopping us is us.
There is no reason we can't all just let the past be the past, forget all the history (even all the promises broken for dwelling on them really serves no purpose), and take a good, long objective look at where we are and go from there.
One personal note to Wes. My friend, I know it may not have been in the job description, but you are the community leader. You aren't just some guy no more. If you want the community to be what I think you want it to be (since if you didn't you wouldn't have started this thread), you should start sticking your nose into our business when we get out of hand and be the unifying force I know you can be. I have a lot of respect for you and think you have just the heart and the tempermant needed to do it.
(and anytime you doubt yourself, imagine Rob Schneider poking his head out of the crowd yelling "YOU CAN DO IT!")