Smuggler Archive
Thread: SOE: Drop the unarmed tree as requirment for smuggler!
Nicolas_Frost
Sat Sep 04, 2004 11:02 pm
#14
I'm of the "Give us Unarmed specials" camp as well.
You take away the unarmed, and even more people will dabble in it for just Dirty Fighting and/or Slicing to kit thier templates. That, and you might as well just make it part of Gunfighter if you do.
Rogue135
Sun Sep 05, 2004 12:07 am
#15
Velneth wrote:
Biggest complaint I have is the fact that a bloody vibro knuckler is consider a bloody TKA weapon. A vibroknucker is something that a street thug uses...
Agreed.
I've seen some people suggest changing the unarmed requirement to Engineering IV, but that won't happen either. Simply put, it's too late to make such a change as it would affect some common templates, Triple Master being the first that jumps to mind.
Edit: My suggestion for unarmed dirty fighting skills match up with the current skills. DF II: Panic Shot - add in a "Sucker Punch" with a 10 second delay. DF III: Low Blow - Low Blow groin kick, knockdown. DF IV: Last Ditch - Right Hook (needs a different name probably) high power, high cost attack with a chance to stun.
Message Edited by Rogue135 on 09-04-2004 02:12 PM
Rogue135
Sun Sep 05, 2004 12:08 am
#16
As much as I love Caylin, I don't think that's a good idea... the last thing I want to see is a Rifleman spamming Last Ditch with his Krayt T21 at the speed cap
MujtahiD wrote:
I agree with BigLands. One melee profession and one ranged profession ought to be the prerequisite to a smuggler. I rather enjoy being a JoaT who can adapt to any given situation.
This has nothing to do with my current template. In fact, i even like our correspondent's suggestion of making the prerequisites to smuggler dynamic, i.e. Any one brawler tree and any one marksman tree.
Message Edited by Rogue135 on 09-04-2004 02:09 PM
Vinven
Sun Sep 05, 2004 1:36 am
#17
Actually, removing it as a pre-req might cause some problems.
My suggestion is they make it either Unarmed 4 and/or Pistol, and/or a crafting tree likeArtisan Engineering Tree (splicing, etc) or <less likely>Artisan Food Tree (spices, etc).
Basically, would have the choice of 1 Combatsmuggler requirement1 Crafting smuggler requirement, or just both 2 Combat(for those that wish to do both unarmed and pistol). Afterall, there is more than just fighting to learning the basics of a smuggler. This would help increase options and make it abitbetter for us business men and crafters.
It may shift the difficulty levels slightly making it easier and convenient, but I doubt theres going to be a rush of smugglers because "before becoming one was just too darned hard." Of course however, this adjustment is on a low priority which might be viewed over as a good idea but one of the things that "will think about whenever we have time later on".
MujtahiD
Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:40 am
#18
Rogue135 wrote:
As much as I love Caylin, I don't think that's a good idea... the last thing I want to see is a Rifleman spamming Last Ditch with his Krayt T21 at the speed cap
MujtahiD wrote:
I agree with BigLands. One melee profession and one ranged profession ought to be the prerequisite to a smuggler. I rather enjoy being a JoaT who can adapt to any given situation.
This has nothing to do with my current template. In fact, i even like our correspondent's suggestion of making the prerequisites to smuggler dynamic, i.e. Any one brawler tree and any one marksman tree.
Message Edited by Rogue135 on 09-04-2004 02:09 PM
Well, the smuggler revamp is supposedly after the CB. Most prolly by then, rifleman will no longer be able to fire at the speed cap since generally, rifles are supposed to have high damage yet low RoF. I also dont think he washinting atthe abilityof utilising LD with rifles, since thats a pistols special. But making the prerequisites to smuggler dynamic would enable us to master 2 other professions alongside smuggler, so we wouldnt really miss LD as a master rifleman/def stacked template anyway (as an example).
MujtahiD
Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:45 am
#19
(Cant seem to edit posts, so in continuity to what i said above)..
I would vastly prefer having unarmed specials and perhaps some pistol modsadded tothe smuggler DF line. I do think that heavy weaponry should be left to commandos and the like, and that smugglers should be endowed with alacrity in light weapons and brawling tactics.
We shouldnt be able to outdamage a rifleman, for example, but we should definately be able to shoot rings around them.
Satek_Bane
Sun Sep 05, 2004 4:52 am
#20
Rehavam wrote:
Similar to the BH's - as compensation for all the nerfs we got and the postponing of the revamp SOE should at leastdrop the unarmed tree as requirment for smugglers!
Message Edited by Rehavam on 09-04-2004 05:06 PM
here here. theres no reason in the actual smuggler tree to have Unarmed 4 as a req. but their excuse is most likely that you need to have unarmed 4 to know "how to fall down for feign death" or something else really stupid lol.
Signed,
Sa'tek Bane
Rehavam
Sun Sep 05, 2004 6:04 am
#21
Changing the requirment to something else e.g. is a bad idea, it will mess up most templates. It's too late for that. I just want the unarmed requirment dropped. Those who want to keep the tree don't have to drop it, they can still keep it. I don't understand those who defend this silly requirment with RP arguments e.g. a smuggler has to defend himself in a bar yada yada yada. There is no such content in SWG. It seems like a lot of people in here want the smuggler proffession transformed into some sort of support proffession for TKA and Pistoleer which would render the proffession almost useless if not combined with those two additonal proffessions. Please keep in mind that there are also smuggler merchants out there who are required to master smuggler for the slicing bonusbut also need a whole sort of other skills in artisan and merchant to keep their business up. They don't have skill points for either Pistoleer nor TKA. The amount of skill points used up for an almost useless proffession as it is now is insane andI and other smuggler merchantswill most definatly just simply quit the trade.
Nicolas_Frost
Sun Sep 05, 2004 6:20 am
#22
Rehavam wrote:
Changing the requirment to something else e.g. is a bad idea, it will mess up most templates. It's too late for that. I just want the unarmed requirment dropped. Those who want to keep the tree don't have to drop it, they can still keep it. I don't understand those who defend this silly requirment with RP arguments e.g. a smuggler has to defend himself in a bar yada yada yada.
Character: Han Solo
Location: Forest Moon of Endor
Scene: sneeking up on two Scout Troopers
Han beats the everlasting piss outta the Scout who doesn't run. 'Nuff said.
SpinningCloud
Sun Sep 05, 2004 8:26 am
#23
BigLands,
Please explain to me why, IN-GAME, anyone Smuggler with Pistoleer skills would drop their pistol and switch to unarmed.
Can you give me ONE example when a Smuggler with Pistoleer would want to do this?
Malgg
Sun Sep 05, 2004 8:55 am
#24
SpinningCloud wrote:
BigLands,
Please explain to me why, IN-GAME, anyone Smuggler with Pistoleer skills would drop their pistol and switch to unarmed.
Can you give me ONE example when a Smuggler with Pistoleer would want to do this?
Because (as evidenced by any movie showing two people fighting over a gun) the guy who originally had the gun is ALWAYS the guy who gets shot! 
SpinningCloud
Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:45 am
#25
I meant in-game...
Problem with having both pistol and unarmed, in-game, is that there are no circumstances where I have EVER wanted to put my pistol away (or not take it out) in order to use unarmed skills.
Even WITH the ability to use VKs I have never found a reason to do so seeing as how I have one third of the pistoleer tree.
IF they put into the game SOME reason to switch from one to the other then I would agree with both as reqs for smuggler. Until then one or the other is just plain USELESS. I have a real problem with useless skill requirements...it makes for VERY poor game mechanics.
Imperiai2
Sun Sep 05, 2004 10:26 am
#26
HUGE /agree to the 'I never want to use unarmed when I have my pistol' crowd... I have been saying exactly that for months.
I think they should add morepistol melee moves as part of DF. I think that a 'Pistol Butt' would be a good move. It'd be a delay and/or stun/dizzy move. Also, another good unarmed move I think they could do is, at melee range, you can use one of your spices on a guy. 'Spice Blind' to cause a delay/blind state. What the character would be doing is using or 'sacrificing' 1 inventoried spice and throwing or blowing into an opponents eyes. Maybe this could be unuseable to people in helmets or something... anyhow that's REAL dirty fighting... =)