Smuggler Archive

Thread: why pistol and unarmed?

Renquist
Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:01 pm
#14

I wouldn't like it to require ranged support, because then it would take more skill points to learn another weapon! At some point when GreenMarine was talking about some of his thoughts on a revamp, he mentioned the possibility that Smugglers would just require any ranged weapon rather than pistols. But he also mentioned it would be somewhat of a challenge to implement code-wise. Who knows, maybe someday



_____________________________________________________________________________
Mandarb Nightchaser

Master Smuggler
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Teras Kasi Master
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maxtheusher
Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:31 pm
#15

First, being able to use any ranged weapon should the need arise is a fantastic idea. Han did after all run around the death star brandishing a carbine.

Also, WHY DOES EVERYONE MAKE FUN OF LANGUAGE COMPREHENSION!? Am I the only one who loves that twi'leks forget that we know lekku?



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Mater_Gunfighter
Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:00 pm
#16

Only discrepency I have is the lack of Unarmed attacks in the Dirty Fighting Tree.


Maybe something like a sucker punch or a shot below the belt would be cool.



----------------------- Akin Aton -----------------------
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Mentski
Tue Dec 07, 2004 8:47 pm
#17






Renquist wrote:

I wouldn't like it to require ranged support, because then it would take more skill points to learn another weapon! At some point when GreenMarine was talking about some of his thoughts on a revamp, he mentioned the possibility that Smugglers would just require any ranged weapon rather than pistols. But he also mentioned it would be somewhat of a challenge to implement code-wise. Who knows, maybe someday





Ahh, someone notices! the whole point is if pre-reqs were changed the way some people say (making it ranged support, business, etc) would completley destroy one of the most popular smuggler templates. the triple master. you wouldnt have the skillpoints for it any more. better to add to what you can choose as a prereq than totally change them. also, after getting an elite ranged skill, ranged support becomes all but useless.


Also, Although at the time when Greenmarine mentioned changing the prereqs there was the need to do quite a bit of coding, I get the feeling it might not be so hard to code dynamic prereqs anymore. Think Jedi... you can pick 6 force lines out of a choice of 16 to become padawan. Same type of deal. he did say it would be easier to code things that already had a related example in game.






Mentalla - Master Smuggler, Master Pilot, Master Cynic
Mentalla's Little Kashyyyk @ 1548, -4508, Jealhimet, Tatooine (Chimaera)

I swear, It's like talking to a brick wall round here....
LaughingWolf
Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:41 pm
#18

You have a good point, with the way Jedi already work it should not be that hard.

But if they do that for Smugglers, they have to do it for all other proffessions, meaning they have to take a long hard look on every proffessions prereqs. Would be nice tho, don't get me wrong.



LaffyWolf'ya - Master Smuggler / Master Pistoleer / Rebel Colonel

Fresh out of witty signatures, sorry.
JeCy
Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:49 am
#19

not sure that it would have to change all profs,,


for one all the main combat classes its obvious why they have the comebat prereqs they do,, even commando, as your typical commando in the military is taught the use of many weapons, and unarmed fighitng tech, though one could make an argument for one handed, and make it a dagger.


BH temp was already changed.. CH, Sqaudleader, and combat medic all make since.. cant think of another off the top of my head.. other than that smuggler is really the only one that forces you to play one way.. all other combat classes pick the one tree in the group and go with it


Je'Cy
Golrok
Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:37 am
#20



JeCy wrote:
Yay GO GREEN MARINE ! !
And for the big wookie letting me know the locations..?? Thanks a ton ! And ya i think engineering 4 shoulid be the smuggler prereq for slicing i know many of you would want to lynch me for that though /grin
Je'Cy





I wouldnt have had to surrender as much smuggler for SW if engineering were part of the smuggler tree so no lynch here.

Nicolas_Frost
Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:57 pm
#21






JeCy wrote:

not sure that it would have to change all profs,,


for one all the main combat classes its obvious why they have the comebat prereqs they do,, even commando, as your typical commando in the military is taught the use of many weapons, and unarmed fighitng tech, though one could make an argument for one handed, and make it a dagger.


BH temp was already changed.. CH, Sqaudleader, and combat medic all make since.. cant think of another off the top of my head.. other than that smuggler is really the only one that forces you to play one way.. all other combat classes pick the one tree in the group and go with it


Je'Cy





Okay, lets take a look at how Bounty Hunter was changed. It originally took Master Marksman plus Master Scout. It now only needs Master Marksman plus Exploration 4. Its not that the prerequisits where changed so much, as they were reduced.


Now lets look at some of the other professions you mentioned. Creature Handler. Only two branches in Scout. They make sence. But as a pure Creature Handler, all you do is, well, handle creatures. Squad Leader similarly, all you do is lead squads. Combat Medic. You're a medic, in combat situations. Each one alone only has one way to play. The same goes for a pureSmuggler. Which alone means you'recapable of fighting, with light weaponry, but is geared more towards getting out of the situation, rather than ending it.But guess what, you've got the ability to play more than one profession at a time. Try mixing and matching.There's only two or three professions you can't Master while being a Master Smuggler.




Jaecob Maragi
Babelonian Militia Captain
Master Smuggler and Alliance Pilot
Captain of the LongShot(2)
THE Official Smuggler Forum Smartass!
The prices of my services are based on "tolerance". The more I have to tolerate you, the more you have to pay me.


Ezis
Fri Dec 24, 2004 4:28 am
#22






JeCy wrote:


I was a smuggler once, and left for lack of content and not wanting to eb a slice monkey.. making spice was lame, what 2 spices work? Sure the combat tree has some nice speicals, but a totally botched underground = uselss tree. language bonus is a joke takesa newbie all of a min to learn everything.Oky soo faction point trading works. Im not here to flame the class, even despite all this i still loved and still love the idea of being a smuggler. I did my own smuggling. I would work trades, buy weapons and slice them and then sell the 30%+ slices and destroy the rest or bazzar um cheap. This was back when there was a 3k limit. I did my best to RP a smuggler despite all that works against you..well i did finally leave with the thought of going back at revamp which has been a long time coming..


Anyway this leads to now. Ive made a wookie WS/smuggler which i plan to make the best bowcasters in the galaxie selling only 35% sliced bowcasters speed or damage.. ill probly sell heavy weapons too but i dont think much else. But there is one problem


having to take pistol tree, and lack of any nice smuggler speical for a rifle. Now i understand the ideas behind why they need a ranged and melee requirement and thats not what im here to talk about. But why does it have to be unarmed and pistol?


Just following what i know about RL smugglers and fictional smugglers, they dont always use these.Many smugglers use machine guns, rifles, knives, swords, and heck maybe even polearms if the situation was right. Soo why make us chose pistol/unarmed?


why not make it one ranged, one brawler soo we all dont get pigeon holed into a template and woud give a much wider varriety to the smuggler population.


Why can my smuggler go with fencer, and use a dagger? why cant my smuggler decide to use a carbine ? Why cant my wookie use a bow caster? now i know some will say you can just pick up the skill. Well why should i be forced to use a pistol when i dont want to? Let me first let you know i love blasters and have been a pistoler with 3 different characters and yea the smuggler specials rock. But this time in my mind and characters mind pisol just doesnt fit one bit.


Would it totally break the image or design of smuggler to say be a rifle/dagger ? or carbin/polearm? I dont think soo. I think it would add much more diversity to a class that needs some love. Add new smuggler specials just for these different weapons, and im sure some of them could be used on all last ditch comes to mind. To me that could be you sticking um in the gut with a knife or running for your life with a carbine blasting on full auto, aka a drug runner fleeing with machine gun blasting 100's of rounds.


I in no way think it would wreck the class but instead add soo much flavor to a class that defiantly needs some spice. I guess some would say then anyone could be a smuggler as long as they had a ranged and bralwer tree mastered.. but then i would say soo what?Why cant they smuggler too? afraid of a little compiton? besides having smuggler for just combat tree doesnt make one a smuggler,, nor does being a master and sitting at a starport yelling "slicing weapons"


Je'Cy








why don't they make us master marksman and brawler, then it'll take as many skill points as bh used to. Yeah, then you'd get to use any of the marksman/melee weapons...



Ezis Johns
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tramarai
Fri Dec 24, 2004 7:42 am
#23


I think the prerequits are good but a least to not have dabblers in the profession , we should have skill mods in the master box(for unarmed and pistol )

And surely give more interest in the underworld line .

Message Edited by tramarai on 12-24-2004 06:43 AM

JeCy
Fri Dec 24, 2004 3:28 pm
#24



Okay, lets take a look at how Bounty Hunter was changed. It originally took Master Marksman plus Master Scout. It now only needs Master Marksman plus Exploration 4. Its not that the prerequisits where changed so much, as they were reduced.


Now lets look at some of the other professions you mentioned. Creature Handler. Only two branches in Scout. They make sence. But as a pure Creature Handler, all you do is, well, handle creatures. Squad Leader similarly, all you do is lead squads. Combat Medic. You're a medic, in combat situations. Each one alone only has one way to play. The same goes for a pureSmuggler. Which alone means you'recapable of fighting, with light weaponry, but is geared more towards getting out of the situation, rather than ending it.But guess what, you've got the ability to play more than one profession at a time. Try mixing and matching.There's only two or three professions you can't Master while being a Master Smuggler.







My point is really, that there should be more than one way to use combat in smuggler is all... There were tons of smugglers in starwars, and the books that didnt use pistol/unarmed Chewbacca is the most famous other than hansolo and we all know he used a bow caster. I realize that you can master many other profs with it.. but being forced to use something you would never use other wise to me isnt right. this is an RPG afterall. God knows there is no smuggler content, soo RP'n is all we have right now.


NOt sure why people are getting so miffed about it.. im not saying take anything away.. im saying give us a choice, If you still want master smuggler, master TKA, master pistoler then go for it.. but on the same token if i want master rifleman, master pikeman for my wookie, or say master carbiner, swordsmen for a trandosian, or pistoler/fencer as a rodian i dont see how that would break the prof at all.. what it would do is add lots of flavor to a class that needs love.


The point of mastering combat profs like all others is you get to chose and not forces into something.. Smuggler is one that could be RP'd tons of different ways and it makes since that it should have the flexablitly to do soo.. Personally i would love it if it had a choice between 2 of4 trees,, one bralwer tree, one marksmen tree, or enginering 4, or bussiness 4 I dont see any reason why some smugglers would even have to have combat,., many smugglers in fantacy worlds dont fight, and are basically wimps.. and from an RP point of veiw engineering, and bussiness would fit right in with a smuggler as they sell/smuggle/slice that fits in in many cases much better than say the combat profs..


As for the other guy with the smart A$$ comment about making master brawler, master marksmen.. how does making it soo you pick one tree from each make it any different then having to go pistol/unarmed expect a different weaponand the exact same skill point alotment. your comment makes ZERO since


This prof needs a complete overhaul as it is.. soo im tossing idea's out there, from a game mechanic, and RP point of veiw..I know many dont give a rats A$$ about role playing but there are many of us that do..


Je'Cy
Nicolas_Frost
Sat Dec 25, 2004 12:58 pm
#25



JeCy wrote:

Okay, lets take a look at how Bounty Hunter was changed. It originally took Master Marksman plus Master Scout. It now only needs Master Marksman plus Exploration 4. Its not that the prerequisits where changed so much, as they were reduced.

Now lets look at some of the other professions you mentioned. Creature Handler. Only two branches in Scout. They make sence. But as a pure Creature Handler, all you do is, well, handle creatures. Squad Leader similarly, all you do is lead squads. Combat Medic. You're a medic, in combat situations. Each one alone only has one way to play. The same goes for a pure Smuggler. Which alone means you're capable of fighting, with light weaponry, but is geared more towards getting out of the situation, rather than ending it. But guess what, you've got the ability to play more than one profession at a time. Try mixing and matching.There's only two or three professions you can't Master while being a Master Smuggler.




My point is really, that there should be more than one way to use combat in smuggler is all... There were tons of smugglers in starwars, and the books that didnt use pistol/unarmed Chewbacca is the most famous other than hansolo and we all know he used a bow caster. I realize that you can master many other profs with it.. but being forced to use something you would never use other wise to me isnt right. this is an RPG afterall. God knows there is no smuggler content, soo RP'n is all we have right now.
NOt sure why people are getting so miffed about it.. im not saying take anything away.. im saying give us a choice, If you still want master smuggler, master TKA, master pistoler then go for it.. but on the same token if i want master rifleman, master pikeman for my wookie, or say master carbiner, swordsmen for a trandosian, or pistoler/fencer as a rodian i dont see how that would break the prof at all.. what it would do is add lots of flavor to a class that needs love.
The point of mastering combat profs like all others is you get to chose and not forces into something.. Smuggler is one that could be RP'd tons of different ways and it makes since that it should have the flexablitly to do soo.. Personally i would love it if it had a choice between 2 of 4 trees,, one bralwer tree, one marksmen tree, or enginering 4, or bussiness 4 I dont see any reason why some smugglers would even have to have combat,., many smugglers in fantacy worlds dont fight, and are basically wimps.. and from an RP point of veiw engineering, and bussiness would fit right in with a smuggler as they sell/smuggle/slice that fits in in many cases much better than say the combat profs..
As for the other guy with the smart A$$ comment about making master brawler, master marksmen.. how does making it soo you pick one tree from each make it any different then having to go pistol/unarmed expect a different weaponand the exact same skill point alotment. your comment makes ZERO since
This prof needs a complete overhaul as it is.. soo im tossing idea's out there, from a game mechanic, and RP point of veiw..I know many dont give a rats A$$ about role playing but there are many of us that do..
Je'Cy





You seemed to have missed the actual point of my post.

In Star Wars, situations can turn from bad to worse before you know it. Smugglers had to be capable of taking care of themselves, and typically in close quarters(not Melee). The two close quarters weapons we have in this game are pistols and fists. Here's a question for you. Why do almost all of the RPG games out today have thier "Rogue class" carrying mainly just a dagger, maybe a small crossbow? Because its light, quick, and doesn't slow down a hasty departure.

I know if Joe and John were a meter away from each other, and Joe has a full rifle while John has a pistol, John would have the advantage, by using the smaller weapon. John could either kill or debilitate Joe and make his retreat.

What you're wanting is for the Pistol specials in Smuggler to be used by all ranged professions. Its unlikely, in the most extreme sense, that that would happen. Why not open up the Carbine specials in Bounty Hunter to be used with Rifles and Pistols? Or even go so far as to make such attacks like Conceal Shot to Gunfighters? What you're wanting just wouldn't benefit the game, and would in actuality, severely unbalance it.



Jaecob Maragi
Babelonian Militia Captain
Master Smuggler and Alliance Pilot
Captain of the LongShot(2)
THE Official Smuggler Forum Smartass!
The prices of my services are based on "tolerance". The more I have to tolerate you, the more you have to pay me.


KaiRan
Sat Dec 25, 2004 2:03 pm
#26

Philosophically speaking, in tight quarters, small arms rule. Additionally, the possibility of a disasterous hull breach makes sustained fire weapons like carbines impractical. Pistols remain the most sensibile "ranged" weapon available, lower power and fewer, well placed shots means less possibility of depressurization. On the melee side, polearms, most two-handed, and many one-handed weapons require more room to swing than the average tramp-freighter interior provides. While some smaller one-hand weapons like daggers and vibroblades may allow for short thrusting or slashing motions, they still carry some dangers of damaging components that bare-knuckles do not. Add onto that the fact that most smugglers end up at some point or another in situations where weapons cannot be taken, such as higher-security facilities or finiky cantinas. In those cases, its nice to know you still have adequite means of defending yourself.


As I said, however, that is all philosophical to smuggler... practicality in game mechanics and feasibility in philosophical intention are sometimes miles apart, not to mention little of the above applies to "ground-based" smugglers, who's activities might be far better served with a rifle and a stun-baton.


As far as the issue of having multiple paths for Novice smuggler, not just limiting to 2 branches, it has been stated countless times by the devs and even past corrispondants that while this is a desireable change, and one the devs would like to impliment, the programming of a dynamic prerequisite is prohibitively complex. Perhaps as we see less major issues with game play, dynamic prerequisites may be able to take front row for a long enough time to be programmed. I'm not holding my breath.



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