Smuggler Archive

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Quiet420 wrote:

or lose it all together? or as a third option...make it a pve only skill?

boohoohoo, /mourn or whatever...last ditch as it stands will not last

the nerf's a comin, how should it go down?

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i would rather you stopped playing this game.

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BDragon wrote:
Ok, i know you guys are getting all heated about this but think clearly for a second instead of over-reacting. How does making LD a pistol only move affect actual smugglers in the slightest? Smuggler is a pistols profession, so any master smuggler would be using a pistol in the first place, so nothing would have changed.

We are no longer a pistols profession. I use an LBC a great deal of the time myself. That said, making it a pistols only move SOUNDS like a great compromise but it really doesn't change anything for anyone and I am of the mind that this is a situation that doesn't need to be compromised as the percieved "problem" doesn't exist.

Last Ditch is SUPPOSED to incap if a smuggler is lucky and has the skills to know when to use it. One of the biggest drawbacks to doing it (and there are many) is that the smuggler, more often than not, is incapped himself when he employs Last Ditch.

What it will limit however is the FOTM Rifleman/BH from using this move and causing more trouble for REAL smugglers. LD is a great move and i have it myself, but it is also a move that becomes completely unbalanced when used in the context of the bounty system. Anyone who tries to say it goes against the CU to have the move made pistols only is mistaken because carbineer has some carb-only moves, jedi have LS only moves, so it can be done.

I don't think this will be enough for those who are asking for LD to be nerfed. As you can still get off some powerful LDs with a pistol and distance is not the issue asthe Jedi would have to be in range to cause enough damage for the Smuggler to do a Last Ditch that means anything.

LD being pistols only does no damage to you as a smuggler, it actually protects you from future nerf cries. And please stop with all this 'jedi got us nerfed', it was BH crying like children that got FD nerfed, this time the boot happens to be on the other foot. You'll also find some of us jedi are actually defending your ability over on jedi forums....

There are MANY professions that have been on the receiving end of LD- Jedi are the only ones asking for it to be nerfed. Despite the fact that others (Smugglers and even some Jedi) have posted SEVERAL ways to avoid getting Last Ditched.

And to be correct. They aren't asking for a nerf. They are saying "It WILL be fixed. Enjoy the nerf."

Last Ditch isworking as intended. Read the description.

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In case you are wondering, I am doing Master Smuggler, and Master Carbineer.

Message Edited by Xoreshear on 05-18-2005 11:25 AM

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Tante wrote:

What it will limit however is the FOTM Rifleman/BH from using this move and causing more trouble for REAL smugglers. LD is a great move and i have it myself, but it is also a move that becomes completely unbalanced when used in the context of the bounty system. Anyone who tries to say it goes against the CU to have the move made pistols only is mistaken because carbineer has some carb-only moves, jedi have LS only moves, so it can be done.

Of course it can be done, but that is not the point.

1. Last Ditch can easily be overcome. The smugglers have presented some strategies already (look in the forum)
   
2. The non Jedi/non BH professions do have a right on their specials, too. I'm just very tired of the Jedi complaining about each move that might (in some very limited occasions) hurt them (if they don't use the very simple strategies that we already described)
   

LD being pistols only does no damage to you as a smuggler, it actually protects you from future nerf cries. And please stop with all this 'jedi got us nerfed', it was BH crying like children that got FD nerfed, this time the boot happens to be on the other foot. You'll also find some of us jedi are actually defending your ability over on jedi forums....

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An what about BH who use Pistols? Weapon change is Fast an a nice Krayted High Capacity Scatter Pistol hurts you good, too. So how exactly does making Last Ditch a "pistol only move" solve your problem?

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First things first, incase you're wondering i personally dont have a problem with last ditch...

Now, the difference making LD a pistol only move would make is that while BH could still use it, to do so they would have to use it within the context the move originally comes from. This means they would have to use a pistol and be within pistol range, which gives the mark a reasonable chance to hit them with either a KD, mez/state effect ro raw damage. That is what balances the control abilities of pistoleer/smuggler in my mind, the limited range (also why i dont like the fact any move can be done with any gun because why use a bloodly pistol then, you'd just get a rifle and do more damage with the same attack.... but i'll save that for pistoleer forums).

In my mind, the only time LD can really be overpowered in a BH situation is with multiple marks and/or Rifleman/carbineer BH. Like i said earlier in GCW or normal 1v1 LD is fine, but you get 5 BH V 1 Jedi and the risk that LD normally has vanishes, because that BH would be very unlucky to ever be db'd as a result of the incap and there would be 4 other guys to db the jedi. If a rifleman has LD, unlike the pistol user, its a simple case of get damaged, once at 10% health, run back to 35m+ and ditch.....

Im sure you wont agree with me and say nothing needs to be changed, but i can clearly see this issue not going well if something isnt done to protect the legitimate use of LD by smugglers. The best way i see to do that is either to give the move lower down and increase effectivness as the smuggler levels towards master, or to tie the move to pistols. I dont want it nerfed (hell, its part of my pistoleer/BH's template), but ALOT of jedi do. And as we all know, the stupidity that is the jedi/BH system tends to get alot of things ruined...

• Leave LastDitch as is, and Jedi learn to lose occasionally

Radical thinking, huh?

I do see where you are going BDragon and it's not like I meant to say you were here to "have our skill nerfed".

But to quote HOTDOG:

And to be correct. They aren't asking for a nerf. They are saying "It WILL be fixed. Enjoy the nerf."

This is the state of mind that induces our harsh reaction. BHs cry so we lose Feign Death, Jedi cry so we lose Last Ditch. I do feel insulted by the way many (not all) Jedi try to push the game into their own powertrip game. What's the point in having every "dangerous" skill removed except from powertripping?

Your example with the 5 BH on one Jedi is valid. Last Ditch can really kill the Jedi there. But why was the Jedi on the terminals, he/she could have avoided that. And 5 BH can kill a Jedi without Last Ditch (at least if they know a bit about their profession). What with our "rooting" ability? It sticks for 40 seconds at the moment. One BH roots the jedi, the others just use rifles to make his head explode, so we should lose that one too? Because make it a pistol only move would not work here. Maybe move it to the master box? Soon smugglers will have all skills in the master box, if we follow that direction.

The point is that Last Ditch is powerful but not half as powerful as some Jedi describe it. It's no one-hit kill, you need a fight first. And if 5 BH use it, they could have gotten you anyways.
If the developers should fix something maybe it's the whole Jedi vs. BH thing but nerfing all other professions is not a way to balance those two professions.

Message Edited by Tante on 05-18-2005 04:40 PM

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Endjinneer wrote:

Pi55 off back to the jedi forums Troll we dont like your type around here

/aviodincap anyone?

now thats a proper gamebreaking skill

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How can i be a troll when i have a toon who is also smuggler? or did your retarded brain not manage to read that part of the post? Its narrow-minded people like you who help to keep the pathetic profession hatred in this game alive. Somebody comes here, who also happens to be a jedi and tries to hold a serious debate about how the move can be protected for use by smugglers and lessen the potential for future nerfs through its use by BH and you react like that?

You sir are an ignoramus and your type isnt liked anywhere....

Message Edited by BDragon on 05-18-2005 08:01 AM

Devs have stated that all ranged specials will work with all ranged weaponary. Make Last ditch pistols only and your cutting off all the smugglers that don't want to use pistols. You can go to hell on that account.

Move to master box? Well when they move every Jedi special up to master box then you can move my speical to master box.

The PvE option is the same as above. When Jedi are removed from PvP you can remove last ditch from PvP.

Jedi can go to hell. The OP has not made a constructive post so he/she can go tohell as well. The fact that you've probably posted on an ALT account show that your either trying to get a flame fest you are a coward.

The Jedi tried making these comments on the Jedi forum and for 6 hours they were quite successful until the smugglers found about about it and ripped them a new arse hole.

I don't know if you remember the fiegn death nerf due to the Jedi abusing it but if you want smugglers to destory that board again go a head and push for a nerf. I dare you. I can tell you know, you don't want to nerf us a second time.

Last Ditch is working as intended, deal with it or, GO DIE AND GO TO HELL. And that's being nice.

Message Edited by EnderUK on 05-18-2005 04:09 PM

I think Endjinner's comments were for the original poster BDragon.

I respect that you came into this thread with a solution with both parties in mind, even though I disagree with it- your mind is in the right place.

The situation with 5 BHs is understood. Having 5 players on you is a problem that Jedi/BHs need to deal with- If you have less then Jedi will use their alts to take up the bounties and grind worry free. If they add more (I've heard as many as 8 may be added) then I think the Devs would be sending a clear message to the Jedi population...RUN.

But we are talking about Last Ditch here.
I personally feel that strategy is the key here and I hope the Devs stand by their decisions to make Last Ditch what it is now as opposed to how it worked before hand- which was just a hard hitting special.

You said yourself that the problem only occurs when there are more than one assailants involved in the fight. I would MUCH rather something be done to correct that situation than to nerf an ability that is a symptom of the disease that riddles the Jedi/Bounty system.

Basically, the changes they made to Last Ditch are the first steps in making the Smuggler profession truly what it should be. Sometimes we get lucky and get the drop on you when you last expect it.

I refuse to lose this because other profs. abuse their systems with our abilities. Especially when the strategies have all but been ignored.

If a Jedi has 5 BHs on them, it is my expectation that they should lose the fight. Sometimes it is okay to lose. So if they see 5 red cons moving suspiciously in their radar they need to Force Run outta there before the fight begins.

HOTDOG: "You said yourself that the problem only occurs when there are more than one assailants involved in the fight. I would MUCH rather something be done to correct that situation than to nerf an ability that is a symptom of the disease that riddles the Jedi/Bounty system."

QFE

LEAVE MY PROFESSION ALONE.

Last Ditch works as intended. It's a miracle that Smugglers have something that does.

Feign Death is next to useless now - I'm a Master and I'd say about 30% of the time I can make it work.

Last Ditch I have NEVER succeded in landing.

As for making it a pistols only special because Smugglers are a pistol profession... Hello? While we need pistols xp and the pistols marksman line, we also need ranged support. Plus our skills include general ranged modifiers.


We also require unarmed skills. How about we make Last Ditch work in melee too? That make you happy?

As has been said, pistols are not weak, I've seen some pistols with insane DPS and it's about time too.

Last Ditch is not the only thing dealing the damage. It's a modifier to the damage of the weapon you are using.

Next we'll hear that people want pistols put down to 100 DPS max.

As a community we have some up with strategies to mitigate the potential of Last Ditch. It's the height of arrogance and pure laziness to call for someone else to eliminate and weaken your opponents rather than expending some brain power to use tactics to survive.