Smuggler Archive
Thread: Poll: Contraband on Vendors
01201986 wrote:
Hurlobacca wrote:
I'm not here to vote, this poll is meaningless, it's the equivalent of going to the Doc forum andasking if doctors shouldbe able to buff. I'm hear to bust some myths.
1. Smugglers need a ban on vendors selling contraband in order to indulge their RP fantasies - There will always be some players who want to roleplay, and some who just want to play the game. If you want to sit in the cantina and do shady smuggling deals that's great but there's no need to cram it down everyone else's throat. Find like-minded players and play out your fantasies but leave the rest of us out of it. As for the lack of realism of contraband being sold openly, look at med/mind/food buffs, players soloing krayts, snipers firing once per second, shuttles appearing every sixty seconds and a hundred other ways in which the game doesn't follow the script. There are many things in the game that work incorrectly or unrealistically. But just because they exist doesn't mean thats how it should be. Need I remind you this is an MMORPG? see those letters RP? yeah. I understand some people don't want to be involved in RP, and thats fine, but that is a lame argument for why sliced objects should be on vendors.
2. Weaponsmiths/Armorsmiths are hurting our business - All weapons/armor are sliced by smugglers already, so it's impossible to increase your 100% market share of this business. Like it or not, we have a free-market economy in this game (well, sorta) and such markets gravitate towards efficiency. It's simply more efficient for me to pay a slicer to slice several hundred weapons at a time and offer them for sale so players can pick the slice they want rather than having to force the players to buy multiple weapons hoping to get a decent slice. It's also far more efficient for the slicers I hire to slice for me rather than standing outside the starport in cnet having to trade and collect payment from every player wanting a slice. If a smuggler's idea of immersion is having the equivalent of a buff line that's what you're gonna get. Smuggler immersion would certainly not be standing around cnet with our master title up. The whole persona of being a smuggler is to be a shady character, completely different from doctors. Just because there are a few smugglers out there who value credits over immersion does not mean the majority of us appreciate it when crafters assume we will be their slice wh*res.
3. Contraband shouldn't be sold openly on vendors- I can see the argument for sliced weapons not being available on the bazaar since it's a public forum, but I wouldn't support that as it would mainly hurt the noobs who are the main buyers of weapons off the bazaar. As for vendors in player-owned houses, that's private property. I can restrict access to my property and vendorsand only allow players I know are ok with the fact that illegal good are being sold there. Also, I don't have vending machines sell my sliced weapons, I have NPC vendors that sell my banned goods. That's my contribution to immersion. I'm not Wal-mart or 7-11, I'm an idependent businessman who seeks business opportunity, legal or illegal. I don't really care if I'm breaking the law as long as there's a buck to be made. I'm a merchant and I value commerce before the law, something I have in common with many of my RL counterparts. This is how I roleplay and it's every bit as valid as how you chose to roleplay. The only difference is I'm not the one trying to tell you how to play the game. First off, a vendor house is not "private property". try to set your house with a vendor in it to "private", u of course know it will not let you. Ok, first you knock RP and now u use it to your support. "I have NPC vendors sell my sliced goods." Please. The only difference in those and the other kind is that the NPC ones can wear clothes and talk. You want to seek illegal business opportunity? It should not be so easy. Go ahead and open up a shop on Pennsylvania Avenue selling black market weapons with no seriel numbers. and tell the officers when u get arrested "But it's private property!"
4. A ban on vendor items will work/solve all smugglers problems - I rely on selling sliced weapons for my swg living. No change in vendor operations is going tostop that. I know from personal experience that players will pay for the convenience of being able to purchase the type of slice they want and that's not going to change either so stop kidding yourselves. There are several ways I can work around a ban on selling sliced weapons from vendors and it would be a major hassle that would wind up increasing the cost to the players but as long as the market demands sliced weapons I will be there to meet that demand. I hear smugglers complain about wanting more smuggling content, but it sounds like what you want is to be transformed into a profession of slice-monkeys. I dont know who said or where u got the text in yellow, but thats simply not true. Hurlo you are a multi-millionaire. If all of a sudden sliced items on vendors became illegal, you would not suffer, as every other crafter would be in that same boat with you. Right, we get paid 3k a pop for slicing your bulk weapons, while you make 500k more off of a 30% damage slice we get. thats fair? As for the text in red, no. thats what we are now, and you take advantage of that.
5. Smugglers should get vendors to sell sliced weapons/spice/slicing tools - This is the argument I love the most. Those who hold this view want to take a skill away from a class that has already invested their skill points on those abilities (Artisan/Merchant) and be given the ability to place vendors without investing any skill points. Yeah right. Keep dreaming. I don't want a vendor to sell my wares, that's not the smuggler way.
I'm sure there are lots of other ways to incorparate a richer gameplay experience for Smugglers, but these are just a couple that would be alternatives to the lame idea of ending contraband vendor sales. There's got to be more brainpower on this forum than this poll would indicate so prove my assumption wrong and come up with some ways to improve your game experience without taking away from somebody else's because next time it might be some other profession crying that Smugglers shouldn't be able to do ___________ and if they get their way I'd say that's karma for you. Yet it is perfectly acceptable for jedi and BH to misuse FD and further ruin our profession? It's perfectly acceptable for a WS to assume that just because I am a smuggler I would be more than willing to slice his300 weapons at only 3k a pop?? plz, i make more than that on the street, like a real smuggler.
SHUT YA FACE! YOU WILL BE PERSECUTED FOR HERECY AGAINST THE WANDERHOMIAN SMITH HURLOBACCA!!!
Yet
Because they can already? Inertia does make an awesome argument. Because it's a free economy? Not in the sense you mean; the economic understructures are changed and limited constantly to dis/encourage certain types of income. Because the system turns slices into a commodity? Then perhaps it's time to change the system.
I don't think slicing was intended to be a bonusgame for weaponsmiths. I don't ever think it was intended for a smith to either hire a smuggler to slice 300 weapons at a time or simply "be" a master smuggler himself and cut out the middleman entirely. I may be wrong. But I really, really doubt it. I really, really doubt that smugglers were supposed to be a support class for smiths.
At one time, it was possible for a smuggler to stand around a city and have a steady line of customers lining up for slices. It was exactly like doc lines. Where have those lines gone? Why do real smugglers no longer have this option? I realize starport slicing lines are no more immersive than 800 sliced rifles on a mall vending machine, but on a purely economic level, why do we no longer have slice lines?
Some people discuss slicing as if it were an integral part of the game, a players' right, something they "own." This is completely contradictory to any concept of illegality and this is why so many of us vote A. Because when you break it down, I think, the question IS one of who owns slicing: the people who use it, or the people who provide it? Do smugglers sacrifice their place as smugglers because the players have grown used to fully legal contraband and the smiths make money off it, or do the players concede control over slicing because we're the ones doing the slicing? Even if by doing so they may end up as less effective merchants and fighters?
I don't mean for that question to be a strawman or rhetorical, either. It's a good question, one that isn't easily dismissed or countered.
Personally, I only have two ways to answer it. First, I don't think anyone honestly needs slicing, or that it would terribly ruin the game even if it were removed entirely. And second, I didn't become a smuggler so I could help people.
01201986 wrote:
ok ok, I caught a lot of grief for the 30k statement. was merely trying to make a point. Hurlo, it's true that people often dont get the slice they want, but that doesnt make the weapon "excrement". A slice is always an improvement. ALWAYS. I have actually had people freak out on me for telling them I charge 10k per slice, for a permenant upgrade to their item. just because it isnt theslice you want, doesnt mean you have to pay me less. In fact, when people try to haggle with me, I raise the price. I have better things to do with my time than argue with a person about how much I should charge for my services. kinda like your "dont tell me how to play my game" statement Hurlo.
Well, you gotta admit you deserved grief for that one but I understand the point you were trying to make. Your assertion that slicing always is an improvement ison firm ground only in a semantic sense but does not conform to the standard of all slices enhancing the desirability or saleability of a weapon in reality. Just last week I had a krayt T-21 sliced and it sliced for speed. That weapon will now sell for below cost. Obviously I can afford to absorb that and it also factors into the pricing of the good slices I get. If you wanna tell me that a speed-capped rifleman would be happy with a speed sliced krayt T-21 that's up to you. As for what you charge for slicing, that's totally up to you. To me 10k is nota lot of money but some players may balk at paying 10k for a slice of a weapon they paid 10k or less for, but like you said if it's not worth it to you then you don't owe slicing services to anyone. I think bulk-slicing offers a level of efficiency for the slicer that warrants a more modest price but that's just my opionion.
If player Smuggling was implemented and was our source of income, I wouldn't bat an eyelid.
MadeEvil wrote:
Would it bother that many smugglers if only they could use sliced weapons?
TomoRainer wrote:
Why in the world do weaponsmiths think they should be able to sell illegal weaponry?
Because they can already? Inertia does make an awesome argument. Because it's a free economy? Not in the sense you mean; the economic understructures are changed and limited constantly to dis/encourage certain types of income. Because the system turns slices into a commodity? Then perhaps it's time to change the system.
I don't think slicing was intended to be a bonusgame for weaponsmiths. I don't ever think it was intended for a smith to either hire a smuggler to slice 300 weapons at a time or simply "be" a master smuggler himself and cut out the middleman entirely. I may be wrong. But I really, really doubt it. I really, really doubt that smugglers were supposed to be a support class for smiths.
it isn't a bonus just for weaponsmiths. a smuggler could just as easy buy a crate of whatever slice them all and sell the high damage slice for a mark up, just as many players do. it is not just the crafters that make money this way. there is still absolutely nothing anywhere that says any smuggler must slice for any crafter.
At one time, it was possible for a smuggler to stand around a city and have a steady line of customers lining up for slices. It was exactly like doc lines. Where have those lines gone? Why do real smugglers no longer have this option? I realize starport slicing lines are no more immersive than 800 sliced rifles on a mall vending machine, but on a purely economic level, why do we no longer have slice lines?
why no slice lines...well yes simple. Many but not all AS/WS contract out slicing or do it themselves. There are plenty of weaponsmiths that outright refuse to sell sliced weapons. this is still an option, there is nothing that says you can't do it this way, especially since there are still unsliced weapons being sold on every server. the poll on the weaponsmith forums showed that.
however, this "poll" is about removing illegal weapons/armor from vendors in the name of rp...they are illegal and therefore it doesn't make sense. unfortunately, it is a yes or no option. if this change goes forward, i can almost guarantee those slice lines will be back. along with the spamming that goes along with it. no its not immersive...its still smugglers doing bulk slicing and adding lag and really is it any more stupid to sell illegal items on vendors then yelling that you will slice stuff in front of starports?
Some people discuss slicing as if it were an integral part of the game, a players' right, something they "own." This is completely contradictory to any concept of illegality and this is why so many of us vote A. Because when you break it down, I think, the question IS one of who owns slicing: the people who use it, or the people who provide it? Do smugglers sacrifice their place as smugglers because the players have grown used to fully legal contraband and the smiths make money off it, or do the players concede control over slicing because we're the ones doing the slicing? Even if by doing so they may end up as less effective merchants and fighters?
it isn't a matter of ownership, it is as you said a commodity. any item that is sliced is improved in some way...and other players are willing to pay for it.smugglersdo own it in that sense because it is almost expected and it is irrelevant whether it is a smith that pays them or the customers directly. the service will be in demand regardless of such a change. the difference is that without vendor sales it may give some people rp'g opportunities but for most, you will be hiding your title much as doctors do to avoid the endless "are you buffing" tells
I don't mean for that question to be a strawman or rhetorical, either. It's a good question, one that isn't easily dismissed or countered.
Personally, I only have two ways to answer it. First, I don't think anyone honestly needs slicing, or that it would terribly ruin the game even if it were removed entirely. And second, I didn't become a smuggler so I could help people.
removing slicing entirely is all well and good but until the supposed smuggler revamp there really is very little to the profession. a couple of decent pistol specials, a soon to be nerfed version of FD, slicing and pretty minimal spice sales. my main issue with this whole "remove contraband" poll is that it basically turns smugglers into targets for every player for slices and nothing more. there is no roleplaying inliving in a "can you slice" tell hell. the only thing that defines what a smuggler can do as it stands now then basically gets turned into something you could probably just adapt into a powerup and probably should since the customers are highly unlikely to be willing to roleplay getting slices. they will simply hand over crates and wait for the "good" slices.
i would hope people would think in terms of finding another way to handle the illegal items on vendors issue in a way that adds to the profession instead of idealistically seeing what will be a huge nerf as a good thing.