Smuggler Archive
Thread: Smuggler State of the profession
"not shooting durni with sneaky crotch shots"
man, that cracked me up big time. Kudos to you !
I almost cried 
a Dev in the Smuggler Boards.
1st:: San - you shouldn't have to redo it - it is current - it is really sad the Devs don't know that - but since he's asked - that's a start and I beleive enough of us have answered him.
2nd: The links provided by Smuggler_Caylinto his and Kav's posts are most excellent ideas and you should read them all. Also DrevenStrobehas some great ideas and I can go along with most of what all of them say. But, there are numerous other threads by numerous other Smugglers that are also really good. These guys are just my favorites so I mention them. But those are all ideas for change - as far as our current state:
1. Underworld is a PvP branch only and we all agree it needs revamped - totally. Especially since language comprehension means nothing in the galaxy we know.
2. Slicing works now but we want more (what profession doesn't ask for more - see above
3. Dirty Fighting finally works, but again there have been proposed changes - see above
4. Spices - we are a divided group on this - some want something new - some like spices but they need reworked - see above
5. Master Smuggler box is empty there are some unwritten benefits but nothing really worth of a master. See above posts for ideas again.
6. We have had no revamp since launch (except bug fixing) and are very disheartened that we have received no attention - so thanks for popping your head in here.
This is the first sign of promise I have seen since launch and although it is night time in Las Vegas - the sun is shining bright 
with a Dev finally showing up in our forum. Maybe my prayers will be answered soon.
Fellow Smugglers,
This is the State of the Profession thread that was to be put together for Thunderheart and the developers. As per SWG-Runesabre’s request for a more updated State of the Profession, it is the intention to explain in here the concerns, issues and general status of the Smuggler profession. The previous version of this post can be found here.
Smuggler in General:
One of the most irritating things about the smuggler profession that is easily seen is the lack of documentation, or the documentation being severely outdated. Adding more detail into the skill tree boxes of the profession can prevent several questions and posts in the Smuggler forum, as could updating the online manual found on the main website. Examples being…
1. SOE description in the Knowledge Base says we have the ability to smuggle items past faction police, we do not have this ability. Yet.
2. Smuggler skill boxes have poor / incomplete descriptions of boxes abilities. We should not be a mostly undocumented class. We should see that masters have a better slice range, that there is indeed a faction discount in the box, that type of thing.
3. The Game Manual on the main website still states we need Engineering 4 and Business 4 as pre-requisites. This needs to be updated.
4. Content, Content, and Content. We are smugglers in name only we do not get to smuggle anything. The overwhelming majority of smugglers feel that content is seriously lacking for our profession. We are the only profession that doesn’t do what its name indicates.
Underworld:
This is our most lacking skill tree; there is almost nothing here that is worth the amount of pistol experience required to progress in it.
1. Languages: Aside from the ability to comprehend lekku movements, there is nothing in this skill box that isn’t given to everyone just by having another player teach you what they know in the first 5 minutes of play. If you are a twilek smuggler, this skill is even more pointless.
2. Half faction loss in a PvP death: This is very nice for PvP players, but for the players who are not involved in the GCW and are neutral, it does nothing.
3. Purchasing faction: With /delegatefaction included in the game. A Smuggler who wants to can sell faction points to other players and make decent money. Again this is only for Smugglers that are members of a GCW faction. Neutral smugglers gain nothing from this skill.
4. Selling faction: This skill is not that useful at this time. If you want to switch factions it’s a good way of making a little cash while lowering your old faction. The problem is that how often do most players switch faction. I just don’t see many players switching faction that often. This one is of some use to neutrals but most smugglers can make much better money doing destroy missions than they can by selling faction gained by doing low level faction mission which are the only ones neutral smugglers can do. Smugglers have to resign from one faction and lose their rank in that faction, in order to talk to the opposing recruiter and use their “Sell Out” skill.
5. Some overt smugglers are loosing the option to go covert when they talk to their faction recruiter.
Underworld Conclusion:
A main concern at this time is that almost all skills within this skill tree revolve around participating in the Galactic Civil War. As the GCW should be considered a voluntary action, having almost all of the smugglers skills revolve around it is not seen as a “good idea”.
Some smugglers recommend removing the skills completely in a complete overhaul of the Underworld line, others want more content added to the profession so that removal isn’t necessary, just a desirable possibility to round out your smuggler’s skill set. As it stands, this is mostly just an extra place to toss Pistol XP when you are interested in raising yourself to Master Smuggler.
Slicing:
This is one of our best skill trees; most smugglers tend to make good money off this one slicing weapons and armor for the public. The problems with slicing are:
1. There are only two kinds of terminals we can slice and both have to do with destroy and delivery missions. What we would like to see is the ability to slice more types of terminals like Travel terminals, Bank Terminals and all mission type terminals such as Entertainer and Scout.
2. The only way for players to know if a weapon or piece of armor has been sliced is to have a smuggler take the item and attempt to slice it. There should be some form of marker on the weapon so that all players can tell if an item has been sliced. Failed attempts at opening locked containers should also be able to be seen.
3. If a smuggler crosses a server zone while slicing there slicing locks up and they are not able to slice until they have logged out for at least 30 minutes or until the server rest.
4. If a player uses the auto-pull feature for laser knives from a crate they are pulled with only one charge so the player losses 9 charges per knife.
5. The last laser knife from a crate always has only one charge.
6. Containers have constant permission errors after being unlocked.
7. Slicing tools take insurance, and for a tool that presently does not affect the quality of a slice in any fashion that we can discern, this makes no sense.
8. Smuggler tool quality makes no difference that we have seen in the quality of our slices.
9. We cannot tell the quality of our slicing tools, if quality ever does matter, we need to be able to see what stats are on the tools themselves, rather than trusting the crafter’s word for it.
Slicing conclusion:
Over all this is our best crafting skill it makes us good money and also makes us useful to the general population. It would be nice to be able to slice more types of terminals. Other options might be nice as well, that you can see in some of the content idea links at the end of this post. Making the quality matter on our tools could be a possible option to help improve things.
Dirty Fighting:
This is a great combat skill tree. There are some players that think we should get pistol skill modifications and some that think we should get a few unarmed moves to make use of our unarmed training, but many are happy with it for the most part. Some issues however that need to be addressed are:
1. Sometimes Feign Death locks up causing the player to not be able to feign Death until the server reset or until they die and are cloned.
2. Feign Death however, as of the December 2003 patch, which in part addressed mob AI with a character that had used Feign death, or was incapacitated, seems overly severe. The new AI rules for remembering a smuggler that has feigned are WAY too sensitive. There should be a chance of a memory wipe based on the level of the mob and the distance from the mob and lair. Also the amount of damage done to the mob should affect weather or not it remembers you. Feign Death is an escape and evasion tool. If I am running through the wilds and don’t want to fight there should be a chance the mob wont continue to harass me after I feign especially if I have done no damage to it. We understand that it was to powerful for soloing large mobs but why should the same level of sensitivity apply to all mobs?
3. Panic shot doesn’t work if it’s the first shot in the queue. Basically if you start a fight with panic shot it wont delay the mob they don’t even need to resist it. It works fine after the first shot. This applies to many other combat specials in the game as well and needs to be addressed.
Dirty Fighting Conclusion:
Most people are happy as a whole with dirty fighting, though the inclusion of some aspect that represents their unarmed background is desired, possibly through skill modifications or a new combat skill.
Spices:
Spices are in need of a complete overhaul. With the re-conception of many of the Chef’s recipes and products, we feel another look at the spice tree is also needed. However many smugglers feel that creating spices is not what Smugglers do, and should be removed as a whole from the smuggler skill set.
1. As it stands, Muon Gold is the primary seller, with all other spices rarely being crafted, as they are of no real use.
2. While this is mostly fixed, we still find the rare occasion when spices can cause incapacitation during the downer period if the player’s stats are lower then the stat drop from the spice. Since most high-level spices have very strong downers it is causing many players to not use spices at all.
3. Spice experimentation: This is a very touchy subject on the smuggler forums and is continuously argued over. Many players want experimentation to make the market more competitive while others like the fact that resource quality doesn’t mean anything, thus making it easier to make and sell without having to spend a lot of time looking for high quality resources.
Spice Conclusion:
It needs another look through, to either have spice quality mean something, or remove experimentation entirely so as to make all spices the same. A decision needs to be made.
Master Smuggler:
We have the least amount of improvement of any profession when we reach master level, and the box desperately needs the documentation of what is gained upon achieving it.
1. Faction discount: This is nice but it’s only useful to the GCW faction participating smugglers.
2. Slicing bonus: This is nice as well but it should be in the master smuggler skill box so that more players realize that it is in fact true that Master Smugglers receive a slicing range bonus. Possible ideas to improve it from the community have been choosing the slice type on the item, slicing droids or having custom slices on our personal weapon that would not be tradable.
3. We have 4 skill trees but only 2 are improved when we reach master. I think most players think there should be a master level spice and a master level dirty fighting skill or Mods to show that 2-million pistol experience has improved our ability to fight.
Conclusion:
The smuggler profession is a relatively fun class and a fairly well rounded profession but with several bugs, lack of documentation, in what is not supposed to be an undocumented profession such as Jedi. It also is lacking any content that actually makes us Smugglers.
We want to be the criminal underbelly of the galaxies and right now we are chemists who can fight pretty well. The addition of smuggler specific missions that allowed us to smuggle would go along way to making the players feel more like smugglers and less like support staff.
Neutral smugglers have no reason to go up the underworld tree. Not all players want to join in PvP and since the Underworld tree is all about PvP it’s a total waste for them. We either need more skills to balance that out there, and make it so the skill tree is valuable to everyone, or remove them and redesign the tree entirely.
A general wish of most smugglers is a new weapon certification. We aren’t looking for an incredibly powerful weapon, just something that separates us from the other hybrid professions. BHs get the scatter pistol, Commandos get the launcher pistol, but we get no new weapon to call our own.
Please review some of the links at the bottom of this post, as many have great input and conceptualizations that would greatly assist the Smuggler profession if implemented correctly.
Well that’s about it for now. Please give SOE and myself all the feedback you can think of. That way the Smuggler profession can be made one of the best and most enjoyable professions in the game.
Links to informational posts for Smugglers:
1. Unofficial Smuggler FAQ v1.4
2. Smuggler's Guide to Selling Faction Points v1.2 by Dreven
3. The Do's and Don'ts of working with your Slicer
4. Snaproll's Spice Guide
Links to some posts with ideas and content for the Smuggler profession, Developers PLEASE READ:
1. Smuggler Revamp 1.13 by Caylin
2. Kav's Smuggler Vision 2.0
3. Electricnomad's compiled ideas for the Smuggler Overhaul
4. The Kessel Run
5. Improvement Idea for Slicing
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
No problem Smuggler_Caylin.
I just started back to school and I didnt really have the time towrite it up just now. 
Message Edited by SanTsu on 01-19-2004 11:26 PM
SanTsu wrote:
No problem Smuggler_Caylin.
I just started back to school and I didnt really have the time towrite it up just now.
Message Edited by SanTsu on 01-19-2004 11:26 PM
hehe yay school. Same here. Wonderful college life though, and taking all my classes in the evening, leave me a bit of time though to do stuff like this. It seems I can't balance out having the links easily finished, and the visual aspect of it together that easily in a post. If you want just send me ideas on how to improve it, I'll help you write it out if you don't have the time, which is why I did that in the first place.
Just want smugglers to get the most out of what dev time we get. *shrug*
First I have to apologize for my bad English. English is not my native language I hope you understand what I want to tell you.
I got an Idea for an absolutely different working spice system.
I Understand Spice in a different way than it is used in the game.
I thought that Spice is an addicting drug that enhances the persons abilities for some time.
I think that the Addiction isn’t good build up in the game.
First thing I have to say is that Incap because of spice is an absolutely no go. But this no new Idea and I only wanted to mention it.
My Idea would be this way.
The Addiction has to be become better build up and because of that I would build the system the following way.
1) You use a Spice and get the enhancements.
2) After the end of the duration you got 30 seconds to use a spice again.
3a) If you do you get the enhancements again and no downer (for the moment)
3b) If you don’t use spice again you will get a downer that has the opposite effect like the spice but the decrease of stats and the duration should only be about 25 % of the spice effect.
4a) If the effect runs out the second time you get the same chance to use spice again for 30 seconds
4b) If you don’t use it a third time you get a downer that is double as high as after using it only on time.
How many times you should be able to use a spice is a difficult question but I think about 4 times would do.
The benefit of a spice system like that would be that you would have the ability to chose when you get the downer and how hard it will be.
I think this way spices would be used more often and would not be absolutely useless like they are now.
Please tell me what you think.
I got an idea i want to add to my last post.
i think would not be good to make it impossible to use a spice nore than 4 times.
I woul solve this problem this way.
When u use spice the fifth time in a row you get a 50:50 chance to get an overdose and when you get an overdose you will get incap for 1 minutefor every spice you took.
This incap should be unhealable by medics or docs. This would mean minimum 5 minutes incap. Who wants to have his. And to make this worse you will get the downer after the incap.
What do you think about my ideas
Another Idea i got right now is not really for the smuggler profession but it is connected to it.
I think the Master Doctor should get an Item that could make downer less worse. I think an item that reduces the effect and the duration of the downer by 25-50 % would be wonderfull.
In the real world docs could dso something to make addictions less worse. Why don't they have the ability in the game ?
cu all
YES! Put a smuggler specific vendor in Underworld 3 (same as business 3) and let us drop him in ONLY a municipal zone. Like a droid that refreshes. At least give us the sleazy looking vendor as an option
DECarbineer wrote:
It may be bad for the smugglers bizz. But banning drugs from PUBLIC vendors should be the first step to realy give a drug addict like myself the RP feeling that i am doing something illegal and that i have to buy that stuff from scary looking guys in a dark street behind the mos eisley cantina.
Overdwarf wrote:
I think the Master Doctor should get an Item that could make downer less worse. I think an item that reduces the effect and the duration of the downer by 25-50 % would be wonderfull.
I think we should be able to take another spice (of the same type) in order to cancel the downer, and give us back the benefits of the spice. Taking multiple spice in a row however,shouldincrease the effect of the downer.
So, if I'm hunting, and slap on some muon.. great benefits, it wears out, feel like crap, pop some more, feeling better.. rinse repeat.
By the time I'm done hunting.. the downer hits.. or, i'm out of muon.. CRAP.. I should take a HUGE hit, directly proportional to the amount of spice I took to delay the downer. I think there is where Incap should play a part.. taking multiple spices to delay downer, should be able to incap you at least once. I mean c'mon, withdrawl is a pita.
This would definately add to the Addict sense of spices.. how many true-life addicts take a hit of something.. stop.. feel like crap.. then go back to it?... they don't.. it's an ongoing process of happiness or need to stop thedowner.
As a smuggler I would feel more like a dealer if I started getting /tells like.. "HEY MAN, I NEED MORE MUON!! I'm Hurt'n Here!" or "C'mon! One more spice.. i just have to get off this downer!"
Add delivery charges... mm.. I love being a smuggler.
-Kirith
Did anyone ever consider that the reason for a dev to come in here is that they are going to print off a copy of the "smuggler state of the profession" since the corporaterestrooms ran out of TP?
That way, they get their humorous reading material, too...