Smuggler Archive
Thread: What does the Smuggling Community want from the Smuggler Revamp?
GabrielCreed
Wed Mar 10, 2004 2:09 pm
#131
i dont post much in these forums, but this thread definitely compelled me to post.
two things are really bothering me about smugglewr, and some of the comments in this thread.
#1. choosing your slice results.
allow slicers to choose between speed/damage or effectiveness/encumberance? think about this. yes, it might be convenient when you want specific slices on your set of armor or a damage slice on your krayt ion rifle... but it will destroy the entire economy in the game. the swg server economies hang by a fine balance. someone dumping a couple million units of resources on the market can actually affect the serverwide economy across a wide range of professions.
slicing is a random increase to your weapon or armor stats. this is why people often bring me 3-4 composite chestplates, a half dozen scatter pistols, a couple of T21s. if they could choose which stat to slice, it would massively alter the game economy.
1. weaponsmith/armorsmith business would be halved immediately. possibly even a more drastic decrease. noone will buy large quantities of helms, multiple power hammers, etc to get a good slice. all of the professions that support them would also lose a significant amount of business.
2. smugglers would make a lot less money on slices, since people would bring us only one weapon or suit of armor to slice. possibly a pair of each to choose the higher dmg, effectiveness, etc. slicing is currently our only way to make money.
3. the entire 'budget' market for newbies and middle-level players of resold undesirably sliced armor/weapons would virtually evaporate.
4. everyone would be running around with the best armor and weapons, that they were able to buy by simply doing a handful of group voritor huntermissions.
the way it is is the way it SHOULD be, folks. when you want a 33-35% dmg slice on a T21 you *should* have to purchase nearly a crate of them to try. by doing so you keep everyone in the game from running around with easily procured uber weapons and armor. you keep weaponsmiths, armorsmiths, merchants and all their supporting professions (including resource harvesters) in business. you keep the bazaar, newbies and lower level players supplied with decent weapons and armor that didnt get that 'perfect slice'. a change as rediculous as being able to choose slices will totally wreak havok on the game economy and smuggler income. while im sure it 'sounds cool', you people need to deeply consider the implications of ideas like that, merely beyondfantasy/convenience.
#2. spice.
spice, right now, is a joke. i had 200 crates of muon gold in my factory before this damn patch, worth 10-15k each depending on how i sold them. overnight their price dropped dramatically, rediculously, with the new chef patch. chef foods are so overpowered now that muon is virtually useless. why drink a muon that gives +500 mind/focus/will for 10 min when you can drink 2 brandies that give nearly DOUBLE that effect for 45 minutes, and have no downer. i used to sell a mini-crate of5 muon for 2500 on the bazaar before the patch, now i can barely sell an entire FULL CRATE of 25 muon for 4500. ive been resorting to selling 5 crates for 20k (125 units of muon) just to dump my now worthless stock of it.
who asked for the damn chef revamp? chefs were already the biggest profiteering class in the game, EASILY able to afford 20-60 cpu for their resources since their profit margins and daily unit sales were in the tens of thousands.
for smugglers, muon gold was the only spice worth making, the only spice that sold consistently. neutron pixie was a seller to a handful of individuals who kept it around for emergency health boosts when they were running around unbuffed and got attacked, but the demand for it was so low that mass production was out of the question.
if you count the bare minimum for each resource - 2cpu, and 3cpu for water - factor in a minimal fee for factory maintenance/power, and other costs, you end up makinga mere 1k profit per crate of muon. thats rediculous considering chefs are now making hundreds of thousands per crate of brandy.
which brings us to the question of potency. isnt spice supposed to be the most powerful buff? since it is the only buff in the game that carries with it a price - a nasty downer. its also adrug - a futuristic counterpart of meth or coke. how is it that a sip of brandy is so much more rediculously powerful and long-lasting than taking a hit of a futuristic radioactive superamphetamine?
in order for the cost - the downer - to be justified, spice should give an equally extreme boost. the paltry boosts given by spice compared with the new BE chef foods, doctor buffs, etc make it a total joke. as a master smuggler with 4 factories at my disposal, i dont even bother taking my OWN muon now, even though its free, with the new chef foods. its just too weak, and the downer is too much of an inconvenience, to justify using it anymore with brandy so widely available.
so either give us master smuggler spice that is in line and competitive with the new chef foods and doc buffs, or yank the spice line entirely. its useless now. experimentation is not a solution, since that will make us have to scramble for high-priced rare resources to get the best spice, and a chef that is charging a 30000% markup on his food can easily afford to buy it all up from under our noses.
spice was bad enough as it was - with muon being the only spice in a list of over a dozen that actually sold. there was a good demand for it though, and smugglers didnt complain because next to dancer buffs muon was the only way to buff mind. now, even muon has been taken away from us.
soe should put deep consideration into their patches, rather than just throwing one already imbalanced class a bone at the expense of taking away an entire tree from another alreadyhurting class.
Blackhearted
Master Smuggler/TKA/Pistoleer - Corbantis
Jez3an
Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:25 am
#132
GabrielCreed: Speaking *as* a Smuggler/Chef, i can tell you for a fact that while Chefs see a lot of money come in, they also see a lot go out. Making money as a chef is possible, but it takes time and a lot more effort than a 1000 run of Muon does. It is also worthwhile being aware that the really good Brandy - the stuff that everyone thinks about when they start ranting about Brandy - is the Master made, Bio-Engineer enhanced stuff made with *extremely* good resources. Factor in that BE additives are made from meat - the games third rarest substance after Force crystals and Locked Containers - and you can see why the really good Brandy is rare. And no, it isn't that the BEs are making money - they are in a bidding war for good quality meat with the Doctors.
Unless a chef has been very very lucky on the experimentation, a non-BE Brandy is less than half a Muon, albeit for a longer duration. And that would have to be made with top quality resources, which next to nobody does by choice, as they all try to hang on for a chance to BE their stuff.
Compare this to the fact that your costs to produce Muon are much, much lower, due to our lack of need for high quality resources, and you should be able to see where the market for Muon now lies. Even at 3 cpu (a price i personally wouldn't pay - shop around, you can find real bargain basement resources in some places), one shot of muon is only 135 creds, plus factory time. I sell single shots at 240 (229 before tax) and make a constant and reasonable profit. Sure, it ain't millions, but it is getting there.
You might want to think on the fact that the guys who make billions selling crack and smack to real world junkies only charge a few £s per hit - keep them moving little and often is the way to keep it going.
But whatever you do, please don't accuse the Chefs of being loaded - they ain't - making good food takes a lot of expensive resources and harvester/factory time. Those Vassarian Brandys are that price for a reason.
The way to make real cash is to be a Ranger and get Meat for the BEs, chef, tailors, doctors, combat medics and meics who need it for their stuff. Decent Avian meat will go for over 125 cpu in sufficient quantity.
I do entirely agree that we shouldn't get into the experimentation lark. Spice is down, dirty and nasty, made from base resources for next to nothing and sold in abundance.
I even like the short duration, because it means i sell more shots in the long run. Sell at volume and you will see a profit.
Oh, and freebies to the newbies never hurts
go stand around in a newbie area for half an hour and give out half a dozen free samples. Dump the rest of the crate on the bazaar there and tell them they can buy it for less than the cost of a single mission. You will make money, they will make skill ranks.
Good luck and enjoy
Unless a chef has been very very lucky on the experimentation, a non-BE Brandy is less than half a Muon, albeit for a longer duration. And that would have to be made with top quality resources, which next to nobody does by choice, as they all try to hang on for a chance to BE their stuff.
Compare this to the fact that your costs to produce Muon are much, much lower, due to our lack of need for high quality resources, and you should be able to see where the market for Muon now lies. Even at 3 cpu (a price i personally wouldn't pay - shop around, you can find real bargain basement resources in some places), one shot of muon is only 135 creds, plus factory time. I sell single shots at 240 (229 before tax) and make a constant and reasonable profit. Sure, it ain't millions, but it is getting there.
You might want to think on the fact that the guys who make billions selling crack and smack to real world junkies only charge a few £s per hit - keep them moving little and often is the way to keep it going.
But whatever you do, please don't accuse the Chefs of being loaded - they ain't - making good food takes a lot of expensive resources and harvester/factory time. Those Vassarian Brandys are that price for a reason.
The way to make real cash is to be a Ranger and get Meat for the BEs, chef, tailors, doctors, combat medics and meics who need it for their stuff. Decent Avian meat will go for over 125 cpu in sufficient quantity.
I do entirely agree that we shouldn't get into the experimentation lark. Spice is down, dirty and nasty, made from base resources for next to nothing and sold in abundance.
I even like the short duration, because it means i sell more shots in the long run. Sell at volume and you will see a profit.
Oh, and freebies to the newbies never hurts
go stand around in a newbie area for half an hour and give out half a dozen free samples. Dump the rest of the crate on the bazaar there and tell them they can buy it for less than the cost of a single mission. You will make money, they will make skill ranks.Good luck and enjoy
Sothonn
Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:59 am
#133
Hmmmmm.....i agree on most of the things said in the 2 Post above. But not on all. I don't blame the Chef's wonderful Food. I use it myself and i think it is good. But I also agree that a Futuristic Hyper Drug should be stronger and more potent then "mere" Food. I suggest that the Boost (Downer half the Power it boosted) will be increased to compare with a Doctor Buff. Let's say it would bring 1000 to the Stats but would last only for 20 minutes with a downer of 500 for 10 min. Half the power it brought as downer and half the duration it had as benefit as the downer. So Spice would be back where it's used to be: A relatively short timed Boost with nasty sideeffects for the quick run. No Danger to a real Doctors buff (with still even higher boost of stat and defenitely the longest duration with 3h) and more powerful then Stat Food but it still had a shorter duration AND the Downer as a backdraw!
I really think that this would be the Best Solution for the Spice problem in general.
To grant Experimentation to Master Smuggler does not collide with this. Those are two different things. The first thing is the general Spice Problem and the second one is about what it means to be a Master Smuggler. So in this Model with the revamped Spice i described above, the Master Smuggler would be the only one who could at least try to lower the downer of this enhanced Spice or to make the duration longer ect.
So a Master Smuggler could make a difference from the students without killing all their business since his "Enhanced Spice" would be much, much more expensive.
To the Slicing.....something is not right about the comment above mine here....giving the Master Smuggler the Selcet-Slice ability would not mean that he will have a overwhelming success with every slice. The Outcome and quality of the slice would still be random. Only that he could select what he wants to slice. So in the example above the People who want a 30% Slice would STILL have to bring a crate filled with Armor or Weapons with them to hope to get the 30% slice. That the Master Smuggler could select that he wants to slice for speed or damage ect...would NOT mean that he has an automatic and overwhelming success
He still would have to tell the customer more often then he likes " Ugh...sorry only 12 % enhanced damage! Gimme your next Weapon maybe we are lucky this time
"!
It is just a tiny Goodie to make a Master Smuggler "feel" at least a little better if he could do things (or in this case at least try) better then a Skill 4 Slicer. Same with the Spice
I am really sure that this would NOT destroy the economy of the Game. Quite the opposite i think!!
But now to something else: The Crackdown & Underworld Tree
If the Crackdown would be made to mean a thing for real and Troopers would start to stop and Question People the Underwolrd Tree could be put to a good Use.
What would be if the Devs would add ID Cards to the Game ? So that if a Player who has Bad Faction (Rebels and later Jabba Guys and Mercenaries that where promised as Factions later) with the Empire or are carrying Contrabant with them would be stopped and checked up by the Troopers would need a Fake ID to slip away ?
The Skill to craft such Fake ID's could be given to the Smugglers Underworld Tree. Maybe with a Percentage Chance of succsess for each Skill Level in the Tree and charges that would get used up every time they manage to slip thru a Trooper Patrol. Representing that their false Identity is crumbling slowly. So the Underworld Tree would really be connectet to the "Underworld"
Imperial Players too could use it if they carry contrabant with them (which 99.9 % do ) *g*
In addition to that the Devs could bring in some Missions/Events that need false ID's to get past a Guard or thru a Door (not in general usable only for that Mission/Event) that could be craftet by a Smuggler. Part of such a Mission could be to obtain the scematic for this particular ID Card and then they had to find i Player Smuggler who would use this Scematic to craft them their Fake ID.
I would love this and i am sure that this would enhance the "Feeling" of being a Smuggler and the Game Atmosphere in general. Oh and the completely useless Underworld Tree would mean something finally!!
Colonel Avan Pandros - Chief of Staffs
(Joint Chiefs of Staff)
I really think that this would be the Best Solution for the Spice problem in general.
To grant Experimentation to Master Smuggler does not collide with this. Those are two different things. The first thing is the general Spice Problem and the second one is about what it means to be a Master Smuggler. So in this Model with the revamped Spice i described above, the Master Smuggler would be the only one who could at least try to lower the downer of this enhanced Spice or to make the duration longer ect.
So a Master Smuggler could make a difference from the students without killing all their business since his "Enhanced Spice" would be much, much more expensive.
To the Slicing.....something is not right about the comment above mine here....giving the Master Smuggler the Selcet-Slice ability would not mean that he will have a overwhelming success with every slice. The Outcome and quality of the slice would still be random. Only that he could select what he wants to slice. So in the example above the People who want a 30% Slice would STILL have to bring a crate filled with Armor or Weapons with them to hope to get the 30% slice. That the Master Smuggler could select that he wants to slice for speed or damage ect...would NOT mean that he has an automatic and overwhelming success
He still would have to tell the customer more often then he likes " Ugh...sorry only 12 % enhanced damage! Gimme your next Weapon maybe we are lucky this time
"!It is just a tiny Goodie to make a Master Smuggler "feel" at least a little better if he could do things (or in this case at least try) better then a Skill 4 Slicer. Same with the Spice
I am really sure that this would NOT destroy the economy of the Game. Quite the opposite i think!!
But now to something else: The Crackdown & Underworld Tree
If the Crackdown would be made to mean a thing for real and Troopers would start to stop and Question People the Underwolrd Tree could be put to a good Use.
What would be if the Devs would add ID Cards to the Game ? So that if a Player who has Bad Faction (Rebels and later Jabba Guys and Mercenaries that where promised as Factions later) with the Empire or are carrying Contrabant with them would be stopped and checked up by the Troopers would need a Fake ID to slip away ?
The Skill to craft such Fake ID's could be given to the Smugglers Underworld Tree. Maybe with a Percentage Chance of succsess for each Skill Level in the Tree and charges that would get used up every time they manage to slip thru a Trooper Patrol. Representing that their false Identity is crumbling slowly. So the Underworld Tree would really be connectet to the "Underworld"
Imperial Players too could use it if they carry contrabant with them (which 99.9 % do ) *g*
In addition to that the Devs could bring in some Missions/Events that need false ID's to get past a Guard or thru a Door (not in general usable only for that Mission/Event) that could be craftet by a Smuggler. Part of such a Mission could be to obtain the scematic for this particular ID Card and then they had to find i Player Smuggler who would use this Scematic to craft them their Fake ID.
I would love this and i am sure that this would enhance the "Feeling" of being a Smuggler and the Game Atmosphere in general. Oh and the completely useless Underworld Tree would mean something finally!!
Colonel Avan Pandros - Chief of Staffs
(Joint Chiefs of Staff)
GabrielCreed
Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:39 am
#134
the way it is, i dont 'feel' like im unsuccessful at slicing at all. the customer knows its all luck, and if they dont know then i quickly make them well aware that i am just the man that rolls the dice.
all of my points are still valid. yes, i realise that people will still need to bring several weapons for a good slice, but the number of weapons or armor they bring to us will decrease significantly. this will cut our revenue at least in half, and it will do the same for weapon and armorsmiths. since spice is totally trash ATM, i dont think we want to see our only source of revenue - slicing - cut in half.
also, i dont want to see people able to procure 30%+ dmg slicedT21s easily. its far too easy enough as is to get a half dozen weapons, get them all sliced, and end up with a weapon that - with a powerup - does double the dmg of the original. uber slices on good weapons should be bvery hard to get, and there should be a massive element of chance. people who produce/purchase krayt weapons should not be guaranteed a dmg slice on them. there are so many things this would effect - both in the economy, and in PVP. craftsmen would see a massive drop in their revenues, and hunters' bank accounts would mushroom since they are no longer spending nearly as much money on weapons and armor and slicing. my g/f is a master armorsmith, and the way things stand now - with named specific resources with several quality requirements not spawning at all, shes resorted to doing voritor hunter missions since they are a *better* source of revenue than cranking out suits of ubese like a robot. already you can do 6-8 voritor missions - in a couple of hours - and have enough to buy a suit of comp that will last you a long time.
when i was reading your post i was thinking about your suggestions to spice, and the downer, and i just thought of something. why not allow us to take more than one spice? think about it. spice, as is, is weak. but what if people were able to take TWO muons? or a muon and a pixie? you would be able to do it in real life - with some serious consequences. have 2 random consequences in there (and i know this would be a easily possible to code since its in there already for theforce of will TK ability). for example, if you take a muon and a pixie, or two muons, there is a 10% chance that you will incap on the spot from the system shock. in one shot spice will be balanced with buffs and chef foods, a way to quickly push yourself to the limit for a brief period in PVP... yet bear a heavy consequence and an element of risk (and risk is what the entire smuggler profession should be about. risk in slices, risk in spice)
cheers,
-gabriel
GabrielCreed
Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:49 am
#135
oh... and one more thing..
those magseal containers that are in dungeons (tusken, drall, nyax, etc)... when they are locked you choose the slice option and get a message saying it cant bee opened. how about actually making them openable by a smuggler using slicing tools? andspawning something in them for a change.
as a possibility they can also be used as a secondary source of slicing XP as opposed to locked containers (since the meatlump spawns have been severely nerfed). then again, i dont want people to be able to become smugglers more easily. i see way too many already, everywhere i look i see naster smugglers, novice smugglers, slicers.... or people spamming for locked containers. careful what you wish for folks.. make smuggler *too* good or *too* interesting and everyone will flock to the class and it will get smacked with the nerf bat next time around.
smuggler should be a rare profession. master is far too easy to get the way it is, IMO. you can grind the spice tree in a couple of hours, and the only thing limiting the slicing tree is how much money you can spend on clamps, crates of knives, and WUKs.
Shazeen
Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:10 pm
#136
First, I'd like to echo the sentiments of several others on here: give them the link to Caylin's revamp and let them go from there. But specifically, I think the revamp would be a success if we can get the following things accomplished with it:
1. Create a Fun & Rewarding set of Smuggler missions. (we need that mini-game!)
2. Expand slicing to be more dynamic with the addition of a 'slicing' skill mod.
3. Fix Feign Death.
4. Allow for experimentation on Spices. (and revamp the spices in general)
5. Add Glitterstim!!!!!!!!
6. Add a smuggler-only pistol certification to the profession. (DL-44a Pleeeease!)
7. Fix the Sell-Out skill at Underworld 3. Allow us to trade with opposing faction members and talk to opposing faction recruiters (so that we can actually make use of the skill that is there right now).
If we can get these 7 things done, then I would be one happy smuggler.
Sothonn
Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:43 pm
#137
Aye! Have to agree Shazeen!
Give us the Smuggler Only Weapon Certificate I want that DL-44a !!!!!
Even right now i use almost only the DL-44 So pleeeeaaaaseeee give it to us!
Colonel Avan Pandros - Chief of Staffs
(Joint Chiefs of Staff)
Give us the Smuggler Only Weapon Certificate
I want that DL-44a !!!!!Even right now i use almost only the DL-44
So pleeeeaaaaseeee give it to us!Colonel Avan Pandros - Chief of Staffs
(Joint Chiefs of Staff)
Sothonn
Fri Mar 12, 2004 1:06 am
#138
Nice Idea you have there with the Multi- Spice Using option. Interesting
Maybe a mixture of both our Ideas about Spice using would be it.
Colonel Avan Pandros - Chief of Staffs
(Joint Chiefs of Staff)
Maybe a mixture of both our Ideas about Spice using would be it.
Colonel Avan Pandros - Chief of Staffs
(Joint Chiefs of Staff)
wizardrahl
Fri Mar 12, 2004 8:24 am
#139
someone probally already metioned this but i like to say this for Underworld and scanning. With the underworld tree you should be able to bribe scanners or at learst blackmail certain officials in order to get high rare items, deemed illegal (spice, poltured hides, slices,ect) to a players or static bazaar. Or for instance be able to do missions that involve a type of finese like dressing like a rebel or imperoal to do actual missions, without fighting but pure deception, blackmail, favors, addictive spices,ect. at least thats my two cents on underworld.
dirty fighting: plenty already stressed this out before me, but i dunno smugglers don't fight fare should they should be able i dunno disable weaponry with a single shot or a throwing of a precision knife.that way all someone has is unarmed, but not beingtake on one on one a tkm unless the smuggler is tkm as well.
slicing: a little more slicing like driods, vehicles, maybe houses. Could involve architecture to have a security system that smugglers can hack into to loot houses. and if they are reported or found out have a bounty on them or tef. there are serial numbers on every item created by players, looted or stolen items can be shown with a line straight through the serial numbers. slicing should also include information gathering like slicing into certain datapads to listen in on conversation like, vader talking to the emperor or Leia with Admiral ackbar. if anyhting thiefing and inforamtion gathering should replace the now broken spices that chefs have replaced.
Spices: broken, so please fix. make spices equal to that or compliment foods now. like with what ever negative modifiers a food would have let there be a spice to take away the bad modifiers , but keeping the good stuff, vice versa as well. last time i checked spices if anything is a drug. Thats why there are spice fiends because drugs are addictive. have there be some negative affects if you stop cold turkey with spices. In order to get away from the affects it needs to be like that of mind wwounds and they have to go to a cantina to get rid of the addiction or medical center.
this only a couple i things i think that can possibly fix it the proff without going too much in repeating everything said, and without changing too many things us smuglers have invested into our prof.
CG-forum
Sat Mar 13, 2004 4:53 pm
#140
HEGEWIZARD wrote:I have seem nany posts about people wanting a special bazzar terminal for smugglers.
Why not have certain terminals also be special so only smugglers have a exrta feature on them they can access.
make them limited to 1-3 per planet depending on the planet. 3 on tat. 2 naboo 3 cor 1 on outer rime planets.
Nah, just change the "premium" column to a "special" one and have different flags like Blackmarket item than only smugglers can see.
HEGEWIZARD
Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:54 am
#141
wow I had alot of miss spells lol. I hate taking to time to prof read my stuff.
Tearlil
Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:21 pm
#142
A few things I would like to see they may come with the space expansion or even before are:
1. Missions that allow us to smuggle stuff
2. Make the missions timed so if we fail or get caught then HUTs/Employer can place a bounty on our head that bounty hunters can get and come after smugglers
3. Spices need to be more effective
4. More things to slice would be nice.
5. Gambling through the underworld tree would be interesting
SPACE unique
6. Be able to fly cargo type ships
7. Smuggle supplies and people to places
8. Expand on the smuggler mission idea
Just some thoughts
1. Missions that allow us to smuggle stuff
2. Make the missions timed so if we fail or get caught then HUTs/Employer can place a bounty on our head that bounty hunters can get and come after smugglers
3. Spices need to be more effective
4. More things to slice would be nice.
5. Gambling through the underworld tree would be interesting
SPACE unique
6. Be able to fly cargo type ships
7. Smuggle supplies and people to places
8. Expand on the smuggler mission idea
Just some thoughts
Ripkord
Mon Mar 15, 2004 6:13 am
#143
I have rarely posted in the past, however this topic effects me enough for me to throw in my two cents.
I