Smuggler Archive

Message Edited by blastodeath on 10-07-2005 09:09 PM

I know this might rain on folks parade a little. But whats to stop contraband from being sold on vendors by bypassing a "filter" and throwing the stuff in bags labeled "The Good Stuff" or something like that? I mean I'm all for it.

Allow us to sell "access" to "small time dealers". THe dealers work just like a vendor. However, they can be placed in a private house. The "access" allows players entry into the house. From there they can buy what they need. If the order is insufficent, then they can contact the big boss (the smuggler) for more spice to quell their fix or just that little extra umph for that laser rifle. Of course, such a concept will leave behind quite a paper trail....which could (depending on their ability) lead directly back to the smuggler, and next thing you know, you got 5 bounty hunters breathin down your back. Rangers...yeah they can be part of this too. THey can help bring down the WHOLE operation, by "breaking into" the spice house, and uncovering the gig. Who knows, the dealer might get scared and take off running, or even rat you out.

Sounds pretty far fetched, but would be SO great to see implented (could take a while, and we're that girl from WIllie Wonka and the Chocolate factorty!)

I like the last idea best, but I'd have to say the "contraband bazaar" idea that somebody else brought up would be more of a workable compromise. Stick them in back rooms of select cantinas / tavernsin less lawful towns, or even in POI's like Jabba's Palace.

The price limit would have to be raised much higher than the normal bazaars though, especially if spice becomes loot / reward only like slice tools are now. I would think a 200k limit would suffice, even though some tools sell for much higher right now. That would serve as a way to trade the parts, and keep them from being too outrageous unless somebody sells them by word of mouth (spam or forums).

This is what I would like to see. Ditch unarmed as a smuggler prereq and switch it to business 4. Then make it so only smugglers can place sliced items and spice up for sale. Add items that a smuggler can sell on his vendor as he progresses. Example... With slicing 1 you can sell items that have a customization rating of 20% or less. Then add twenty percent for each level of slicing a smuggler gains and then the last 20% once they are a master smuggler. Do the same thing with spices and the spice line, or the underworld line if the spice line is eliminated, the more complicated the spice the higher skill you need to sell it. Anybody should be able to buy or sell slicing componets on the open market. I know this does not make much sense but the real world does not make sense either. In New York it used to be perfectly legal to sell radar detectors. It was just illegal to use them.

Other options to give this an underworld feel.

-No vendor that is sellinga sliced item or spice will appear on a vendor search from a bazaar terminal.

-Limit the locations of where you can put vendors with contraband. Only houses that have restricted access, that way a person would have to seek out a smuggler and be added to the entry list. This givesthebuyerthe feeling of having a kind of "connection". Another possibility would be to make smuggler vendors only able to be set up in player cantinas with the cantina owner getting a set percentage of all sales. This again gives a seedy feeling to a contraband deal, having to go out to an off the beaten path cantina to get your fix. This also promotes player interdependence.

I know that this idea does not do much for the CoB users out there but you can't please all the people all the time. I think that if Han is the model for this profession then smugglers not having business skills is not very true to his image.

This is what I would like to see. Ditch unarmed as a smuggler prereq and switch it to business 4. Then make it so only smugglers can place sliced items and spice up for sale. Add items that a smuggler can sell on his vendor as he progresses. Example... With slicing 1 you can sell items that have a customization rating of 20% or less. Then add twenty percent for each level of slicing a smuggler gains and then the last 20% once they are a master smuggler. Do the same thing with spices and the spice line, or the underworld line if the spice line is eliminated, the more complicated the spice the higher skill you need to sell it. Anybody should be able to buy or sell slicing componets on the open market. I know this does not make much sense but the real world does not make sense either. In New York it used to be perfectly legal to sell radar detectors. It was just illegal to use them.

Other options to give this an underworld feel.

-No vendor that is sellinga sliced item or spice will appear on a vendor search from a bazaar terminal.

-Limit the locations of where you can put vendors with contraband. Only houses that have restricted access, that way a person would have to seek out a smuggler and be added to the entry list. This givesthebuyerthe feeling of having a kind of "connection". Another possibility would be to make smuggler vendors only able to be set up in player cantinas with the cantina owner getting a set percentage of all sales. This again gives a seedy feeling to a contraband deal, having to go out to an off the beaten path cantina to get your fix. This also promotes player interdependence.

I know that this idea does not do much for the CoB users out there but you can't please all the people all the time. I think that if Han is the model for this profession then smugglers not having business skills is not very true to his image.

As I said (in part) in a recent thread:

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The Dev's have always wanted some inter-dependency between different professions, which isn't a bad thing in and of itself.

But if the Smuggler revamp actually happens and the bazaar changes are included, expect an even larger drought of Smuggler tools.
Unless of course the Dev's actually use a brain cell or two and set the tables to drop tools in Smuggler missions (or elsewhere).

Some think it's a great idea to remove sliced items, spice, and tools (and any other contraband) from the bazaar and vendors, and realistically, it jives.
Selling prohibited items publically doesn't make sense. You don't see ads in the paper selling crack or stolen cars (or at least, not explicitly).
But practically, it will inflate prices and/or remove the market of contraband from the game.

When I first heard about these proposed changes, I figured that spam would increase a lot, though not to pre-CU amounts, but now I don't think it will be quite that bad, though it will increase.
But only for selling sliced goods, not the tools that we need.
I'm betting that rather than waste their time standing around trying to sell tools, they will get deleted, creating an even greater shortage of tools.

Sliced items have always been intended to be a rarity because it was illegal and was to have repercussions if found with contraband.
The 'crackdown' was anything but, and with the ease of obtaining tools pre-CU, slicing was common.
Creating the lootdrop tools does take a step to making sliced items more rare, but not that much.
Gone are the days of huge slicing contracts with 'smiths.
Removing the sale of all contraband from the bazaar and vendors will depress the market to near oblivion and make slicing a practically useless skill.
Only the most dedicated and wealthy players will seek out a Smuggler to slice their gear.

Spice is apparently going to be changed to drop only, and that line of skills will be replaced with something (I hope) useful, but slicing will become the new spice line, rather pointless.

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I'm not totally against removing contraband from the bazaar, but I think we need some way to get it from other than ATK players.
I am assuming that the tools we need are considered contraband. If they aren't, and will remain on vendors/bazaar, then my argument is moot, but I'm betting they are contraband.
Our old tools were, why shouldn't our new ones be?

Similarlly, if spice is to be removed as a crafted item, unless it is increased in potency, demand will die out, especially if there is no way for players to get it except from ATK Smugglers.

I know that we need some changes, some of which are combat related, but we need something to do besides combat.
If we really wanted to be hardcore combat soldiers, we wouldn't have chosen Smuggler as our profession.
If selling and obtaining the tools of our trade becomes difficult to the point of being almost non-exixtent, we may as well remove those skills and find something useful to replace them.

I am all for not having Contraband on vendors everywhere, but I do believe Smugglers should be able to sell their stuff w/out having to camp outside a starport spamming.

It would be grat if customers would seek me out while I'm hanging out in a cantina, and that may happen but only if the contraband in question is worth the effort.

in the interest of not promoting starport spam here are some Ideas I have to allow limited auctioning of Contraband

1. Make Bazaar Terminals Sliceable, A Smuggler wil be able to spoof teh terminals security fuctions to allow an Illicit Item to be sold. The Smuggler could have up to his slicing skill divided by 10 auctions at once.

2. (used in combinations with option 1, or 3)At Underworld 1 Enable Smugglers to 'Convince' an NPC vendor under thier control to sell contraband. once convinved, the vendor stays convinced until it is 'fired' It can no longer be listed in Bazaar Search, and can only sell Contraband, he basicaly becomes a dealer. A smuggler can only have 1 Dealer at a time to limit him from putting them everywhere.

3. (used instead of option 1) Create a network of NPCs in back corners Public Cantinas that function exactly like an underworld bazaar: You must be a Smuggler or Bounty Hunter to sell items(basicaly someone involved in the underworld), The number of Items you can sell at one time starts at 5, and goes up as you gain Underworld skills. Thus a BH could only sell 5 Items Max(those slicing tools) and a Master Smuggler could sell a substancial amount more.

Interface would practically be just like the bazaar. Dealers have connections so Players would be able to search planet-wide(but not galaxy-wide). And there would be no Vendor Search Function.

1) Allows for a smuggler to "access" underworld terminals that are unsearchable but stockable.

2) Weeds out Smugglers looking for ub3r templates, because of the expensive 15 skill point artisan investment

3) Allows for a more "smuggler oriented" tree that fits into business (taking place of spice)

Slicing loot: no limitations, anyone can do it

Spices: Must obtian underworld 4

Sliced weapons/armor: Must be Master Smuggler

I'm now of the opinion the further we get away from the A option the less we are giving the advantage away from people that ACTIVELY play smugglers, and the further we get away from what we want in a smuggling system

All thats going to happen with contaband vendors and ideas like that is that the current people who sell contraband on vendors will change their template (if they have to) just do that instead, and then spam their new vendors at starports. Nothing will really change. Just like combat, human nature will lead them to do the simplest thing. The new FOTM.

What really is so wrong with contraband having to go through ATK smugglers? anything that promotes ATK play is good in my book.

I see people complaining that they'd have to sell and spam things on the streets... why? Let them come to you. Gain a reputation, let word of mouth work fo you. Be a smuggler, not a spammer. If you are worried about being in tell hell, stay off search.

Everyone seems to want things on a plate. Heaven forbid people have to work and think to buy AND sellillegal items, eh?

Message Edited by blastodeath on 10-07-2005 09:09 PM

The poll on contraband being sold on vendors and the bazaar dealt with two extremes. The vast majority, both when it was originally posted and during its recent resurgence, opted for contraband to not be available on vendors and the bazaar.

Many, however, also stated that they would prefer to see an alternative, some form of compromise. I have no idea if such a compromise could be developed in addition to what is In Concept, but on the assumption there is still room for some change and given the proviso that as limited development as possible should be required for the compromise to be created, I’d like to discuss ideas on what exactly such a compromise could entail.

Again, I’ll state that I do not know if this is possible, indeed this could all lead to nothing, but in case it is possible, let us together attempt to come to a general consensus on what compromise would suffice.


Ideas that come to mind from those suggested include;

Allow contraband to be sold on merchants, but not the bazaar.

For me, this does nothing towards making contraband special / appear illegal; it is less a compromise and more a cop-out, allowing illegal items to be sold willy-nilly across the galaxy, albeit not on the Star Wars equivalent of EBay.

Give Smugglers the ability to alter/support vendors so that they can sell contraband items.

This could possibly work well, although some restrictions would be needed. If vendors simply require something akin to a slice in order to sell contraband, as with nearly every weapon prior to the new slicing system, every vendor will be sliced and everyone who currently does will continue to sell contraband.

Therefore, either some requirement of having Smuggler in a merchant’s template, or alternatively restricting Smugglers to ‘supporting’ one vendor at a time might be prudent.

Allow small amounts of contraband to be placed on vendors, with each amount, or each amount exceeding the limit, contributing to a merchant ending up on BH terminals.

Personally, I think a combination of this and requiring Smuggler support would be ideal, although development time available (should there be any) could very well prohibit either, let alone both together.

Restricting the amount of items on sale and/or placing merchants on the BH terminals if they’re not careful and/or if they sell too much contraband over time seems very appealing in the risk vs. reward champion in the back of my mind, although I’m not sure how merchants would take to this.

Create NPC dealers and place them in NPC cities, allowing Smugglers to sell contraband through them.

This, while initially appealing, seems to have several flaws. First, I imagine this would require a great deal of development compared to other ideas suggested and is likely unfeasible.

Second, merchants get a bum deal out of this, their skill set taken from them and placed in an NPC.

Third, while it gives Smugglers a good way to sell their spice, it still restricts people being able to sell their looted slicing tools that many Smugglers wish to pick up and many Bounty Hunters wish to rid themselves of.

Conversely, this last point could be viewed as good thing, as it means that contraband is no-longer obtainable by anything less than personal contact (although people with this view are likely for the complete removal of contraband sales on vendors in the first place).

These are just four that came to mind; in addition to these, there are many other ideas to be discussed (including no doubt the extreme end of the scale of simply removing contraband sales entirely). I look forward to seeing your comments .

Just a short comment about the last option: it would probably be the best of them simply because of the social dynamic it would allow for. If the NPC dealers are placed properly, Cantinas and other Underworld-related places would actually become (at least slightly) more realistic and there would be an immersive reason to visit them. If some kind of an infrastructure for illegal vendors is indeed made, it could be a step forward towards implemented more and more features to the NPCs in question.

Currently, NPC vendors are incredibly boring and not at all fitting for the kind of transactions we're talking about. It's not as much because of the blandness of the player cities, though they do have their own set of problems. It's just so much cooler to deal in illegal items in the backroom of Jabba's Palace or a shady cantina corner.

There could be a chance of the authorities wishing to have a little chat with you after hearing you've been doing business with that Bothan operating out of the Lucky Despot. But it doesn't matter that much right now. Just having them would be positive.