Smuggler Archive
Thread: Smuggler State of the profession
Hi my brothers and sisters of the smuggler community.
This is the state of the profession thread that I have been asked to put together for Thunderheart and the developers. Below I will list the state of the profession as I see it and think most of you see it. Please feel free to let me know if im base or not. Dont feel shy in sharing your feelings.
Smuggler
1. Underworld tree: This is are weakest skill tree, there is almost nothing in this tree thats worth the amount of pistol experience it takes to get.
a. Languages: except forour ablility to understand lekku there is nothing in this skill that isnt given toeveryonejust by learning the languages that any player can teach in the first 5 minutes of play.
b. 1/2 pvp faction loss due to death: This is very nice for PvP players but for non-pvp players it does nothing.
c. Purchasing faction: Ok this seems to be getting more use now that /delegatefaction has been put into the game. A Smuggler who wants to can sell faction points to other players making decent money. Again this is only for Smugglers that are faction based neutral smugglers get nothing from this skill.
d. Selling faction: this one isnt that usefull, Sure if you want to switch factions its a good way of making a little cash while lowering your old faction. The problem is that how often do most players switch faction. I just dont see alot of players switching faction that often. This one is of some use to neutrals but most smugglers can make much better money doing destroy missions then they can selling faction gained by doing low level faction mission which are the only ones nuetral smugglers can do.
Underworld conclusions: This skill tree does almost nothing for nuetral smugglers and for faction based smugglers there are only really 2 skill that are of any use. So over all its more of a exp hole then it is a good skill set.
Slicing: This is one of our best skill trees most smugglers make good money off this one. The problems with slicing are:
1. it is a bit shallow there are only two kinds of terminals we can slice and both have to do with destroy and delivery missions. What we would like to see is the ability to slice more types of terminals like Travel terminals, Bank Terminals and all mission stype terminals meaning entertainer or scout.
2. The only way for players to know if a weapon or piece of armor has been sliced its to have a smuggler take the item and attempt to slice it. There should be some form of marker on the weapon so that all players can tell if an item has been sliced.
Slicing conclusions: Over all this is our best crafting skill it makes us good money and also makes us usefull to the general population. It would be nice to be able to slice more types of terminals.
Dirty Fighting: This isa great combat skill tree. There are some players that think we should getpistol mods and some that think we should get unarmed moves to make use ofour unarmed training butall in all I think most players are now happy with dirty fighting as far as skills are concerned.
Spices: This tree has taken a serious dive since the last patch. The problems are listed below.
1. Spices can now cause incaping during the downer peroid if the players stats are lower then the stat drop from the spice. Since most hi level spices have very strong downers its causing most players to not use spices at all.
2. Stats sticking: all buffs now adays seem to be causeing our stats to stick in the lower postions even after the downer period has worn off the only way to fix this is to log off for up to 20 minutes. This and the incaping has made spices almost useless in play.
3. Spice experimentation: This one is a little harder to gauge many players want experimentation to make the market more competitive while others like that resource quality doesnt mean anything thus making it easier to make and sell without having to spend alot of time looking for hi quality resources.
Master Smuggler: We have the least amount of improvement of any profession when we reach master level.
1. Faction discount: This is nice but its only usefull to factioned smugglers.
2. Slicing bonus: This is nice as well but it should be in the master smuggler write up so that more players realize that its true. Also many smugglers feel like a master smuggler should have the ability to choose what attribute is sliced I.E. damage or speed. I do believe that most masters could live with it being harder to slice if one chooses. So say one wanted to choose to slice damage then they could pick damage but it would only be a percent chance that it would succeed and if it faied the other attribute would slice instead or the over all percentage of the slice would decrease.
3. We have 4 skill trees but only 2 are improved when we reach master. I think most players think there should be a master level spice and a master level dirty fighting skill or Mods to show that 2 million pistol experience has improved our ability to fight.
General smuggler problems: Content, Content, Content. We are smugglers in name only we do not get to smuggle anything. The overwelming majority of smugglers feel that content is seriously lacking for our profession. We are the only profession that doesnt do wnat its name indicates.
Conclussions: The smuggler profession is a fun and well rounded profession the major problems lie in the the 2 skill trees spices and underworld as well as master smuggler not having much to show for it. The third and most bothersome problem is that we have no smuggler content to mention.
We want to be the criminal underbelly of the galaxies and right now we are spice monkeys who can fight pretty well. The addition of smuggler specific missions that allowed us to smuggle would go along way to making the players feel more like smugglers and less like support staff.
Nuetral smugglers have no reason to go up the underworld tree. Not all players want to join in PvP and since the underworld tree is all about PvP its a total waste for them.
A general wish of most smugglers is weapon certs. We arent looking for uber weapons just something that seperates us for the otherhybrid professions. BHs get the scatter pistol, Commandos get the launcher pistol, but we get no weapons. Two ideas that have been around for a while are
DL44a: an advanced version of the DL44 that has slightly better stats and AR1 most of use think that energy would be a decent damage type. This is just one of many pistol type ideas that have floated around but I think most players would be happy with the DL44a becuase of its connection with Han Solo.
Brass Knuckles: these would allow us to keep using our unarmed skills with slightly better damage then we would do with just our fists. This would be even more desired if you decide to give us a few unarmed moves in the Dirty Fighting line.
Well thats about it for now. Please give me and SOE all the feedback you can think of So that the smuggler profession can be made the best and funnest profession in the game. 
Message Edited by SWG-Runesabre on 02-15-2004 10:47 AM
I think you summed it all up nicely. The only thing I would change is that we are slice monkeys, not spice monkeys (not a biggie though). Nice work.
Rebokka
Master Smuggler
All in all great work. A Question though:
1. it is a bit shallow there are only two kinds of terminals we can slice and both have to do with destroy and delivery missions. What we would like to see is the ability to slice more types of terminals like Travel terminals, Bank Terminals and all mission stype terminals meaning entertainer or scout.
Are you sure on this last line? I have sliced Both Entertainer and Scout terminals. when i was at Slicing I. I would just slice whatever was nearest. Even Artisan ones a few times. I never tried the BH ones as I am not a BH.
I would also request an official statement for the hard numbers on slicing so we know what is possible and what is not. Other than that it looks good.
SanTsu wrote:
I havent checked it lately but I believe that you can slice the terminals but it doesnt improve your payout.
Oh, and don't forget that if you don't happen to get a mission you like on the first page then the slice attempt is worthless. Can't we have the slice remain until we find a mission we want? Is it that imbalancing? How about being able to slice a terminal for someone else? Or have the amount of the additional payout be determined by the level of our slicing skill?
This is a copy / paste of a post I made in the Discussion forum a couple of weeks ago. I'm pasting here since it gives a few good ideas and will hopefully be seen by TH since he's said he's going through professions next week.
BTW San Tsu...good job man. This is going to repeat and probably reinforce alot of what you already posted.
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Almost 2 months ago (9/5) the Smuggler community brought a list of issues to the Discussion forum in the hopes of garnering some attention and a little recognition from the developers.
To that end, we recieved a response from Holo and a list of things that would be looked at by GreenMarine.
Since then, Smugglers have recieved almost nothing in the form of making the profession better or more useful.
So, I'd like to take some time and revisit some of these issues and give a little personal perspective on them.
Underworld (the most boring / useless skill tree in Smuggler)
1a. +100 Lanuage comprehension: We gain the ability to understand every language in the game, as well as being able to read what Twi-lek are saying with their lekku.
Problem: Every newbie in the game gains the ability to understand every language within the first 5 minutes of play time, except the lekku thing. This equates to Smugglers learning exactly ONE new language that everyone else doesn't have.
1b. 10% faction discount: It's a 10%-Off sale at your faction recruiter on everything from armor to infantry.
Problem: Doesn't do a thing for you if you're not PvPing or involved in the GCW. Also, if your side is losing the GCW, the "losing faction" discount overrides your smuggler discount, basically making this worthless.
2. You're only worth half of what you would noramally be worth in factional PvP. And you only lose half of what you're worth in faction points if you die in factional PvP.
Problem: Again, useless if you don't participate in the GCW.
3. Sell faction points to the opposing recruiter for cash.
Problem: Again, only useful for GCW participants.
4. Buy faction points from your faction recruiter for cash. This became somewhat more useful with the implementation of /delegatefaction.
Problem: Can only buy faction if you have less than 500 faction points. Also, the exchange rate is huge -- 10000 creds=125 points.
(This would be a great money sink if we could buy larger amounts of faction for less...maybe 50 creds per faction point...since more players would come to Smugglers to get quick and easy faction point increases they would pay US,WE would in-turn pay the recruiter...voila instant money sink...also maybe give Smugglers some way to achieve closer to a 1:1 /delegatefaction ratio.)
Slicing (Our most useful tree, though still in need of some work)
Novice: Containers: Unlock them and get a useless gift...or nothing at all.
Problem: Pain in the butt to find, though they have been dropping a little more freely lately.
1. Terminals: Increased mission payouts.
Problem: Only the first page of payouts is increased. Very rarely do I get 2 missions going in the same direction. And it's a bigger pain if I'm grouped, since I have to hope for a mission going in the same direction as the rest of the group.
2. Weapons: Increase speed or damage on any weapon.
Problem: Not really a whole lot to say about this one, since the Slice 2 / 4 reversal got fixed.
3. Armor: Added ability to increase base effectiveness or reduce encumberance on armor.
Problem: Again, not a whole lot to say.
4. Weapons (advanced): Increased percentages on weapon slices from Slice 2.
Problem: None
OVERALL Slice Problems: Tool quality has no impact on the quality of the slice. There are endless debates in the Smuggler forum about what to do to achieve better results, yet the overwhelming concensus is that there's nothing we CAN do. Also, there is no way to choose the attribute that is sliced. Bounty Hunters almost always want damage slices, while Riflemen almost always want speed, yet there is no way I can guarantee either.
Dirty Fighting (Our combat tree): IT ALL WORKS!! *hopes it doesn't get broken again*
1. Feign Death: Gives the appearance of an incapacitated or "dead" state.
Problem (or maybe not): In PvP, Smuggler feigning death can still be targeted and attacked (shot, bled, poisoned, set on fire, etc.) by opponent(s), causing "black rot" in the HAM bars (sometimes down to 1, 1, 1). Smuggler is either forced to lay there until opponent(s) get bored, or stand up and take the DB, which totally defeats the purpose of Feign Death.
2. Panic Shot: 10 second delay to all targets in a 45-degree cone. 30 second timer.
3. Low Blow: Ranged Knockdown on a separate 30 second timer.
4. Last Ditch: High cost, high delay, high damage.
Other than the PvP Feign Death thing, not really a whole lot wrong with the DF tree.
Spices:
OVERALL: Boosts to stats depending on what spice you take.
Problems: No experimentation, material quality makes no difference. EVERY Smuggler makes the exact same spice, no matter what they use to make it. Ongoing stat bug that forces spice users to either die or log out for a period of time in order to get their secondary stats to reset after a "downer". The high-end (and best selling) spices, Neutron Pixie and Muon Gold, now incapacitate players when the downer kicks in, making them less desirable for players to use, and thus taking away a source of income for Smugglers who choose to deal in Spices.
MASTER: 25% factional discount, 5% bonus to slicing.
Problem: No incentive for gaining this box. No additions from DF or Spices. Considering Masters still have just as much of a chance of coming up with a crappy (less than 20%) slice as someone with Slice 4, the slicing bonus is pretty much nill...making the Master Smuggler box = Underworld 5. Also, I've heard that the "losing faction" discount from the GCW overrides the Master Smuggler 25% discount as well, though I don't know this for a fact.
Suggestions:
Underworld - Take it back to the drawing board. This is supposed to be happening, but we've heard nothing about when or how this will be changed.
Slicing - Someone on the Smuggler forum suggested instituting a system where Smugglers would be able to choose the sliced attribute. It would work along the same lines as crafting experimentation, except it would be Slicing experimentation. You would recieve points as you progressed up the Slicing tree and the actual slicing interface would look like an experimentation window with Speed / Damage bars for weapons and Effectiveness / Encumb bars for armor. Want a damage slice? Use your points to "experiment" in the damage bar....you get the picture. The amount of improvement would depend on the number of points you have and how high you "experiment" on a certain attribute. (Admitedly, I wasn't fond of this idea at first, but it's kinda grown on me.)
DF - Not a whole lot to fix here. Maybe adding some unarmed moves to put our Unarmed 4 pre-req to use. Or adding some skill mods so we can get higher level missions without having to pick up skills from other professions. Currently our DF specials allow us to kill fairly high level MOBs, but we are relegated to level 10 missions unless we pick up skills from Pistoleer or another combat profession.
Spices - FIX THE FREAKING STAT BUG! Get Spice experimentation fixed so Smugglers can decrease side effects, increase durations, etc. I have a +100 Spice Experimentation skill mod that does nothing at all. When you get that working, maybe add a totally new spice to the Master box, something worthy of the Master level.
Master - Use the suggestions above, and add some sort of skills to make the Master box worth having. Unlimited purchase of faction points as well (in other words, make it possible to buy points above the 500 point cap)
There is also the issue of Smuggler content...mainly that there is none. Introduction of something to actually SMUGGLE would probably be a good idea. At one point in time, I was hopeful that we would be able to put our Underworld skills to use and smuggle factional items between factions. I know alot of Rebels who would have paid a ton of credits to have their own AT-ST or suit of Stormie armor. Granted, the system would have needed to be changed to allow use of factional items by members of the opposing faction, but it would have been great. And that's what Smugglers are for...to get items for people who wouldn't normally have access to them.
NOW...with all that said...
We were told by Holo that GreenMarine was being assigned to address the Smuggler issues. And, for a time, all Smugglers rejoiced. Until we realized GreenMarine was also the guy in charge of mounts, player cities, and a dozen other professions.
So with that knowledge in mind, and the fact that there are other professions that are alot more broken than Smuggler is. What I, and the rest of the Smuggler community would like to know is how far on the back burner are we? We were hopeful to see changes made in the last publish, but all we got was a Panic Shot fix that probably could have just as easily been done in a hotfix.
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I think that's a good summation of where the Smuggler is these days.
I don't really need to add anything, but I just want toecho you inhighlighting that the Master box only acknowledges two of four branches of the profession. Spice and Dirty Fighting get no bonuses whatsoever for being a Master Smuggler, and the bonus to Slicing is so slight and unpredictable as to be a fairly weak addition (perhaps raise our minimum slices, add some control, and boost the potential maximum percentages). The 25% bonus to Faction purchases is nice, but it only benefits people who are involved in PVP. Keep that bonus in there, because it makes sense, but there need to be universal benefits as well.
Anyway, you've done a fine job, San. Devs, that is the real deal that Smugglers face every day.
San, you nailed it. I agree with everything you said.
Devs, please listen to this man! He's doing a great job for us.