Smuggler Archive

Thread: Is the Critical Chance Slice Worth it?

Gunga000
Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:12 pm
#1

I have yet to really test this out, i just made a nice rifle and was considering doing 100% Critical Chance on it. But i havent heard anything good about slicing for this. Anyone find it useful?




GIGGS
NSPYN

CHAMPIONS LEAGUE
TalKurgan
Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:21 pm
#2

Currently broken so far as I know. I do seem to recall a damage bonus with /criticalshot during my BH days, but I definitely don't see any damage increase, even when I get the +Critical+ flyouts.


So I'd say no for the time being.





"And so our player base was coming around the corner and we were all BOOM! HEADSHOT! And then the veterans were coming down the stairs and, you know what? BOOM! HEADSHOT!" -FPSDev
Gunga000
Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:30 pm
#3

yeah i saw teh same stuff, might have to do some damage and speed instead








GIGGS
NSPYN

CHAMPIONS LEAGUE
Taln2
Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:49 pm
#4

When it works, it adds +20% (1.2x modifier) to the attack that procs it. That can be major especially with heavy DD attacks, like those from carbines or rifles. And a 10% proc rate is not too shabby.


Bottom line, a capped weapon will get a nice bonus from +CS when it works.




Corbin Greylocke
The Master Thief

Empire at War - destined for GOTY 2006.
Oclesei_Moonrider
Sat Jul 30, 2005 6:17 pm
#5


I've been testing it myself. I often find that when it goes off, in the combat window it shows the regular damage of the weapon, but actually the mob takes MORE damage.


I could be wrong, as it's really hard to test, without Critshot, but when Critshot lands it does do 1.2x damage.




Olero - Master Lamer

Master Smuggler - Master BH - Master Pistoleer - Novice Combat Medic
Spy

Taln2
Sat Jul 30, 2005 9:19 pm
#6

Well it WAS working just fine (combat log showed the improved damage) when I first installed critical shot in P19. I think that in P20 they just broke the UI part of it for whatever reason.



Corbin Greylocke
The Master Thief

Empire at War - destined for GOTY 2006.
QuantumArtist
Sun Jul 31, 2005 4:03 am
#7


Let me make it easy for you...


NO


Its not worth it at all. You get a very minor chance to do a paltry 20% more damage? Invest in a damage or speed slice and you'll do markedly more damage and much more consistantly.

Message Edited by QuantumArtist on 07-31-2005 04:04 AM



QuantumArtist
Penetant former Exploit/strategy writer
Owner of the now closed GameReformer.Com (don't make us come back!)
Current Player feedback activist

Awww hell! I give up!
Taln2
Sun Jul 31, 2005 8:37 am
#8

It's the old "burst versus consistancy" debate. I guess to resolve it in regards to SWG I'll have to find some time to hit up excel and make an all new damage calculator.



Corbin Greylocke
The Master Thief

Empire at War - destined for GOTY 2006.
QuantumArtist
Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:19 am
#9



I'd say theres very little debate about it...


Consider 100 shots at the enemy...


With a speed slice I can cram those 100 shots in at a significantly short amount of time.


With a damage slice I can consistantly do more damage over those 100 shots.


With a critical shot slice only 3 of my shots will do 20% more damage...


Personally, I'm sold on speed slices for thier ability to cram damage into a very short amount of time. However its an action eater. You have to time your bursts for the right moment. Like when an enemy is knocked down, you want to put as many shots into that short amount of time as possible! The ability to time this, and anticipate your result is better then a miniscule CHANCE to do 20% more damage at that moment.


A full 8% damage slice will yeild about 60-90 points of damage per shot, depending on the type of weapon and how wellthe weapon was made. Over the space of 100 shots, that is a bonus 600-900 damage.


By comparison, the same weapons will yeild 155-225 damage only 3 times per 100 shots with a 3% critical slice. Thats a total of 465-675 bonus damage... which is 135-225 points of damage less then a damage slice over 100 shots. There is also the added disadvantage that you never know when it will apply. Its not like a speed slice where you can time your damage burst at just the right moment, or like a damage bonus where it simply applies all the time. You never know when it will apply. It can apply while your target is standing... or it could apply when they're KD... you never know!


The only time I'd critical slice a weapon is for a BH that uses critical shot often. Only then would your odds to land a critical shot increase to a point that would exceed a damage slice. Of course, your odds only increase when using critical shot, which is likely not going to be your sole attack,soa BHusing a critical slice may only break even witha damage sliced weapon over the space of 100 shots.


I'd take a speed slice over any other, for the control it gives me. I can control my action usage vs. my action regeneration. I can time my damage spurts with the times it would hurt the enemy the most... and I cycle my state attacks much faster (great against multiple targets).


Speed is the way.

Message Edited by QuantumArtist on 08-01-2005 02:38 AM



QuantumArtist
Penetant former Exploit/strategy writer
Owner of the now closed GameReformer.Com (don't make us come back!)
Current Player feedback activist

Awww hell! I give up!
Taln2
Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:26 am
#10


3% is the old (TC-pre19) stat. It's at 10% now, which means out of 100 shots,*10* shots will do 20% more damage.


I'm in something of a rush, so I'll probably have some errors here, butlet's take a 200-400 damage, 2.0 speedweapon, over 100 shots:


max damage slice gives it 200 x 1.08 damage, or216-432 damage per shot. (169.5 DPS)

max speed slice gives it 2.0- (2.0 x 0.12) speed, or a -0.24 reduction, resulting in 1.76 speed. (170.45 DPS)

max crit gives it +10% chance to proc a +20% boost to damage. That's 240-480 for the duration of the critical, thus (180.0 DPS)


Since CU, we only care about the high enddamage in calculations since that's all that gets computed weapon wise in combat We're not counting armor, CL differences if any,or defense vs. accuracy, which just modifybase values here. We'll use ranged shot for this demonstration because (a) it's easy to calculate - it just uses the weapon's max damage,since it uses DPS as damage and (b) it's base cooldown time is 1.0 second.


For 100 ranged shots:

max damage slice =169.5 x 100 =16,950 damage over 200 seconds (2.0s per shot)

max speed slice =170.45 x 100 = 17,045 damage over 176 seconds (1.76s per shot)

max critical slice = (150 x90) + (180 x 10) = 13,500 + 1,800 = 15,300 damage over 200 seconds (2.0s per shot)



Of course, that assumes a lot. Nobody really uses 100 ranged shots on a target,because it isn'texactly ideal - there are betterattacks to use as you master professions. Similarly, not many battles lasta full 100 shots, particularly in PvP, so it's possible to have very short encounters (20 shots) featuring several criticals on heavy DDs, which would significantlyboost the total DPS of max critical users compared to others. [Edit] Additionally, some specialsdo NOT rely on DPS for damage, and prefer only one stat - such as maximum damage or minimum damage.


The point of all this isthatwhile speed is ultimately godly insofar as DPS goes (after all, it IS the denominator, albeit, a capped denominator since it can't ever be lower than 1, even if the weapon claims it is), critical shot is indeeda decent alternative to a speed slice when heavy hitting is required. Insofar as PvP goes, that extra 20% can throw an enemy off, especially if it's layered on top of an attack like sniper shot that can do ~2200 damage. A critical on top of that monster shot gets it to ~2600 damage, meaning the follow up shot will likely kill the other player.


Again, it's a matter of burst versus sustained DPS in short term combat, and both sides are perfectly valid.

Message Edited by Taln2 on 08-01-2005 02:55 PM



Corbin Greylocke
The Master Thief

Empire at War - destined for GOTY 2006.
ApollyonTB
Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:04 am
#11

no its broken, dont waste your time



teh Tee-Bagger
Lover of Beer and Pie
Order 67 - "Every Smuggler is now an enemy of SOE and LucasArts."
(quoted by)
Veela "Her Royal Hawtness"


vendors located at 2110 -4905 outside Mos Eisley
Ipseck
Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:37 am
#12

Think of it like this: over long periods of time its the equilivant to a 2% dmg slice (20% damage increase every 10 shots.. just do the math, its easy)

In the short run, for those gamblers out there.. landing one on someone while they're kd'ed can be massive.





7Ipsecki Tunnel8
eMaster Smuggler - "Deliverer of goods"e
N"Captain Moody"N
C-Bone_RE
Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:38 am
#13







Taln2 wrote:

When it works, it adds +20% (1.2x modifier) to the attack that procs it. That can be major especially with heavy DD attacks, like those from carbines or rifles. And a 10% proc rate is not too shabby.


Bottom line, a capped weapon will get a nice bonus from +CS when it works.







If this is true a lvl 3 slice of critical hit is equivalent to a 2% damage increase over time. If you go with a damage 3 slice, speed 1 and crit 1 you end up with damage increase of 8.6% of damage over time plus the 2% speed decrease. Overall it looks like crap to me.


Also if you slice a lvl 3 crtical, the weapon is fully customized.

Message Edited by C-Bone_RE on 08-01-2005 08:38 AM



C-Bone: Smuggler/Doc
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