Shipwright Archive

Thread: interdependence

hamhamthe3rd
Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:19 pm
#1

how many components from other classes are used by shipwrights,not just optional butrequired?
SSSnuggles
Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:22 pm
#2

None.... well, there are some items a DE makes that pilots might want (flight computers, astromech droids, unburnt programming chips) but nothing is strictly required (alright fine, a private crafting station made by a DE or Arch is required).

Slochini
Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:27 pm
#3

Yeah..thats it. As for interdependance I'd say yes. We need to rely on each other and even form corporations to be able properly stock a vendor. As it sits now, I don't see any way 1 person can be a fully stocked and self reliant SW. I'm a member of a three person (4 if you count our DE) corporation that have a full service shop in So Cnet. We each have a factional vendor for chasis and an additional vendor for the components and sub components. 1 does weapons/munitions, 1 does propultion/power and I do the armor/shields. I also do paint and repair. So far, its worked out well. I think after the weekend when each has more time we will be truely be a FULL SERVICE...FULLY FUNCTIONAL space craft business. No one can do it alone.
Rugburn
Thu Oct 28, 2004 8:13 pm
#4

Shipwright in itself doesnt need any components from another profession... As for DE's, they make the droids, and the SW makes the interface. I thought SOE wanted interdependency from crafting professions.. Most of the artisan elites depend on each other for components, but not SW.



0000000000000000000000000000000 Edra - Master Architect
0000000000000000000000000000000 Enec - Elder Jedi
0000000000000000000000000000000 Khendra - Bounty Hunter
0000000000000000000000000000000 -Baby- - Commando
0000000000000000000000000000000 Eleic - Medic
0000000000000000000000000000000 Depi - Officer
0000000000000000000000000000000 ...and many more

CerionSkydreamer
Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:48 pm
#5

We hashed over interdependence in beta. The fact is, there would be no TRUE interdependence as shipwrights make no components that other professions could use. Sure other professions make items that a SW could use, or could be integrated, but then you have DEPENDANCY not INTERdependency...that in my opinion and many others in beta is bad.

Besides, you can't make an expansion interdependent because some people do not buy the expansion.








b Vist the NEW JEDI HOLOCRON -- Naboo -3246, 3984 Kauri Galaxy--CLOSED! R
If I had my choice, I'd still be a Creature Handler.
Instead, all I got was this lousy padawan robe.

Ewach
Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:29 am
#6

There's nothing wrong with one profession being dependent upon another, rather than independent.


I can't think of a single thing, schematic wise,that Master Artisans require from Droid Engineer, yet DEs rely on the MAs for their electronics.


Same goes for architects and Master Artisans. Now, the case could be made that a MA requires factories and crafting stations, but those are the products and are not plugged into the actual crafting schematic.


Also, if you want to go that route, you could argue the WS that supplies required parts to a SW (if it were that way) then relys on the SW for a ship if he wants to be a pilot.


The lack of integration with the ground game, and existing crafting professions, within SW is appalling. The shipwright is now the ONLY crafting profession in the game that doesn't require anything from another profession.


I think this was done not because of concerns with dependency, but because it was simply easier this way. Easier is not always, often never, the best option.


Possible examples of where some dependency could have been introduced without even modifying existing professions:


WS subcomponents used for ship weapons

MA electronics required for reactors and such

AS subcomponents required for armor and shields (after all, a ship shield is just a big version of a PSG)


And those are just a few ideas.


These could be optional components, like the MA electronics in the crafting stations, but they would be necessary for high quality parts.





SWG Lexicon: "Every Player" Means "Except Crafters"



Ewach - Founder of Travelers Respite on Sunrunner
Located halfway between Anchorhead and Mos Eisley (2180, -4684)
Visit my Shop at (2030, -4660)
Brilyn
Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:34 am
#7

< I can't think of a single thing, schematic wise,that Master Artisans require from Droid Engineer, yet DEs rely on the MAs for their electronics. >


Droid Storage Units, for the Vehicle Paint Kits.


< Same goes for architects and Master Artisans. Now, the case could be made that a MA requires factories and crafting stations, but those are the products and are not plugged into the actual crafting schematic >


I agree with you.



Likewise, the WS produces NOTHING needed by the Artisan, and same with the Armoursmith.



And I agree with you. I consider myself a proponent of Dependance, and Interdependance.



Brilyn
Master Weaponsmith
Master Shipwright
Main vendor on Naboo, Vagabond's Rest: -1850, 2330
Secondary vendor on Talus, Kyu'mai: 250, -4680
Starsider
Ewach
Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:38 am
#8

Thanks Brilyn - I have not made many vehicle paint kits and forgot about that DE component.



SWG Lexicon: "Every Player" Means "Except Crafters"



Ewach - Founder of Travelers Respite on Sunrunner
Located halfway between Anchorhead and Mos Eisley (2180, -4684)
Visit my Shop at (2030, -4660)
Brilyn
Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:46 am
#9

Sure. I'd rather have my argument clarified by someone on my side, than a minor point used against me.



Brilyn
Master Weaponsmith
Master Shipwright
Main vendor on Naboo, Vagabond's Rest: -1850, 2330
Secondary vendor on Talus, Kyu'mai: 250, -4680
Starsider
wilibus
Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:03 am
#10






CerionSkydreamer wrote:
We hashed over interdependence in beta. The fact is, there would be no TRUE interdependence as shipwrights make no components that other professions could use. Sure other professions make items that a SW could use, or could be integrated, but then you have DEPENDANCY not INTERdependency...that in my opinion and many others in beta is bad.

Besides, you can't make an expansion interdependent because some people do not buy the expansion.




With the feel of the game i got i don't think i completely agree with your statement here. I think interdependency would exist if SW's need components from Armoursmiths, Weaponsmiths, and Droid Engineers for ships. Yes that would create a dependency for the SW's, which is no different than current proffessions. I am an AS i need tailored components for my armour. As well look at the resource consumption ... no way a single player can digup that much steel alone. I saw no reason SOE couldn't incorporate the current crafting proffession's into JTL.


And as far as the i need stuff from them, but not vice versa arguement ... how exactly are these players that purchased the JTL plan on getting past tier1 in any of the piloting proffessions? Answer complete dependency on SW's. I saw tier1 TIE's going for 200K on radiant last night. The idea of having SW's build everything required for ships is not an arguement agaisnt dependency on other proffessions, it is an arguement in favour of complete SW dependency, while i really have nothing against it even as an AS who would be one of the affected proffessions, at least have the nerve to state your intentions.









Lawke Eislen | Carbine Extraordinaire | Imperial Pilot Ace
Avaris Eislen | Procurer of Combat Fashions | Kintan, Naboo

CerionSkydreamer
Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:57 am
#11



Ewach wrote:
There's nothing wrong with one profession being dependent upon another, rather than independent.
I can't think of a single thing, schematic wise,that Master Artisans require from Droid Engineer, yet DEs rely on the MAs for their electronics.
Same goes for architects and Master Artisans. Now, the case could be made that a MA requires factories and crafting stations, but those are the products and are not plugged into the actual crafting schematic.
Also, if you want to go that route, you could argue the WS that supplies required parts to a SW (if it were that way) then relys on the SW for a ship if he wants to be a pilot.
The lack of integration with the ground game, and existing crafting professions, within SW is appalling. The shipwright is now the ONLY crafting profession in the game that doesn't require anything from another profession.
I think this was done not because of concerns with dependency, but because it was simply easier this way. Easier is not always, often never, the best option.
Possible examples of where some dependency could have been introduced without even modifying existing professions:
WS subcomponents used for ship weapons
MA electronics required for reactors and such
AS subcomponents required for armor and shields (after all, a ship shield is just a big version of a PSG)
And those are just a few ideas.
These could be optional components, like the MA electronics in the crafting stations, but they would be necessary for high quality parts.





yep, what Brilyn said--

let me clarify with a rhetorical question. "Is every profession dependent on every other profession?" No. But no profession stands alone. DE can use composite plates from AS, but Archis need droid compartments from DEs for crafting stations.

So there is a web of interdependency--but not all are two way streets so to speak. Shipwright offers nothing in return that other professions could use.

and no, ships are PRODUCT and cannot be considered 'needed' by a profession.

And my statement about not all people purchasing JtL still stands as a valid barrier to interdependency.








b Vist the NEW JEDI HOLOCRON -- Naboo -3246, 3984 Kauri Galaxy--CLOSED! R
If I had my choice, I'd still be a Creature Handler.
Instead, all I got was this lousy padawan robe.

CerionSkydreamer
Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:04 am
#12



wilibus wrote:


CerionSkydreamer wrote:
We hashed over interdependence in beta. The fact is, there would be no TRUE interdependence as shipwrights make no components that other professions could use. Sure other professions make items that a SW could use, or could be integrated, but then you have DEPENDANCY not INTERdependency...that in my opinion and many others in beta is bad.

Besides, you can't make an expansion interdependent because some people do not buy the expansion.

With the feel of the game i got i don't think i completely agree with your statement here. I think interdependency would exist if SW's need components from Armoursmiths, Weaponsmiths, and Droid Engineers for ships. Yes that would create a dependency for the SW's, which is no different than current proffessions. I am an AS i need tailored components for my armour. As well look at the resource consumption ... no way a single player can digup that much steel alone. I saw no reason SOE couldn't incorporate the current crafting proffession's into JTL.

And as far as the i need stuff from them, but not vice versa arguement ... how exactly are these players that purchased the JTL plan on getting past tier1 in any of the piloting proffessions? Answer complete dependency on SW's. I saw tier1 TIE's going for 200K on radiant last night. The idea of having SW's build everything required for ships is not an arguement agaisnt dependency on other proffessions, it is an arguement in favour of complete SW dependency, while i really have nothing against it even as an AS who would be one of the affected proffessions, at least have the nerve to state your intentions.







First, please use interdependency correctly..not to be snide, but you use both interdependency and dependency in the same breath to describe the same system. They're not the same. Secondly, to address my highlighted point above, it most certainly IS different. DEs can buy your composite plates for armor. DE's need electronic parts from MAs, MAs need droid storage compartments made by DEs, DE's need parts from Architect, Architect needs parts from Tailors...on and on.. That's interdependency, not the one way street of DEPENDENCY people advocate most often.

Don't get me wrong, I like interdependency. I think it's a good thing in the current ground game. I'm not a fan of dependency.








b Vist the NEW JEDI HOLOCRON -- Naboo -3246, 3984 Kauri Galaxy--CLOSED! R
If I had my choice, I'd still be a Creature Handler.
Instead, all I got was this lousy padawan robe.

hamhamthe3rd
Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:30 am
#13

you know they could always just force something like they did with docs needing cms crafted components for specific cures.
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