Shipwright Archive
Thread: Loot better than hand made
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fyreblayd28
Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:17 am
#1
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CreatureHypnotizer wrote:
I looted this today
Cygnus "Megadrive" Starship Engine
Armor 466.1
HP 625.2
Reactor energy drain 2100
Mass 13766
Pitch Acceleration Rate 600.0
Yaw acceleration Rate 600.0
Roll acceleration rate 300.0
Pitch rate max 63.2
yaw rate max 63.2
roll rate max 63.2
top speed 92.6
With a nice booster im hitting 1400+ speed
Cygnus "Megadrive" Starship Engine
Armor 466.1
HP 625.2
Reactor energy drain 2100
Mass 13766
Pitch Acceleration Rate 600.0
Yaw acceleration Rate 600.0
Roll acceleration rate 300.0
Pitch rate max 63.2
yaw rate max 63.2
roll rate max 63.2
top speed 92.6
With a nice booster im hitting 1400+ speed
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this is the quest reward engine, everyone gets it during tier 3
I found this on the pilot boards and I am noticing it myself being a shipwright. The only thing we are good for is the chassis. I am sorry but I never have to buy any parts from a shipwright or even make them myself. Most of the loot in space is way better than anything we can ever hope to make.
I have also seen a trend that scares me. I have level 2 and 3 parts that are far better than all the level 5-7 parts I have ever had. I am in an X-Wing with all 3 weapons active and firing at once, gorgeous shields, for a level 2 a top speed 70 engine and still have all the energy, and mass to go. I have no trouble dispatching ships until I hit the tier 4's
Why did they make it so that shipwrights are only needed for chassis's? I mean we waste all these skill points to master only to find out that we can not sell very much else in our profession. This was not really brought up in Beta because everyone was able to make what they needed and were too busy in space. Thier was no such thing as commerce since they gave you free skills you were able to be a shipwright yourself. Try to make what you wanted only to find out that space loot was way better and for the few experimentation versus the multitude of choices we need to make.
AustinSgt
Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:26 am
#2
Not at all ... as a consistant mark ... crafted armor, shields, and weapons on my part are always better to comparitive looted ones. Provided you are a master and have good minerals ...
Given I cannot compare to some looted engines, capacitors, boosters and reactors, but if you want a really good one, guess what - you have to RE it. Start charging up the wazoo for REs. People will catch on why it rocks ... I agree though that we should have better stats than most looted stuff, but as it is, having certain looted components better than my own takes a weight off the crafting shoulders that are already overwhelmed ... dont look a gift-horse in the teeth, or something like that
And all this considers the fact that we are not using the subcomponents that will make our goods even better!
Leyana, M SW, M DE, MA
RagNoRock5x
Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:40 am
#3
/agree
I am using my alt as a SW, I wont be getting into space for another week atleast (waiting for market to slow down).
During this time I am gathering loot components for my pilot Toon. So far the only thing I have seen thatI make better than loot is armor and some weapons. Every thing else, even low level loot, surpases my mark IV stuff.
Yes this takes some burdin off our crafters fingers, but think long term. What if every 5 loots gave you a mind fireNightsister lancer or mind fire pistol? That is basicaly what is happening in space. Loot engines are 2-3* better than any player made ones. Whenthe first wave is gone we will only be selling chassis, armor,weapons and consumables.
Having godly loot is good, its something to strive for. Having godly loot every 5 kills is not good.
CapnKate
Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:02 am
#4
AustinSgt wrote:Not at all ... as a consistant mark ... crafted armor, shields, and weapons on my part are always better to comparitive looted ones. Provided you are a master and have good minerals ...Given I cannot compare to some looted engines, capacitors, boosters and reactors, but if you want a really good one, guess what - you have to RE it. Start charging up the wazoo for REs. People will catch on why it rocks ... I agree though that we should have better stats than most looted stuff, but as it is, having certain looted components better than my own takes a weight off the crafting shoulders that are already overwhelmed ... dont look a gift-horse in the teeth, or something like thatAnd all this considers the fact that we are not using the subcomponents that will make our goods even better!Leyana, M SW, M DE, MA
Agree, except for one thing.
In the 1000 or so piece of loot of all levels i've had dumped on me by friends and guildies, I don't see many Boosters or reactors that can compare to my crafted stuff, either. Especially reactors. As a 4443 pilot I personally get some great loot... but I have yet to see any looted reactor beat out one of my crafted ones at any level, though i haven't been able to RE all that many high-level ones yet. even then, there's a big gap between 12500(highest looted energy I've seen so far) and the 15600 mark four I crafted with 19K mass last night. Could just be me, though. Statistically improbable, but possible.
ShimmeringStars
Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:16 am
#5
Capacitors are by far the worst for craft vs. loot.
Engines have the max speed issue. I can beat most loots, but I can't beat the 90+ speed loots that are out there.
Everything else is better than the common loots. Even with boosters, an overdriven booster can still beat99 out of100 booster loots.
I've never seen a looted weapon close to the stats on my crafted ones. I've seen a few good loot shields, but they generally are only slightly better even with RE to combine a good recharge with a good protection rating. The reactor comments I don't understand either, but perhaps my customers are keeping their good reactor loot or something - in my experience looted reactors are the least competitive loot there is. I regularly see sub-10k genrates even on level 2 and 4 loot. My novice reactor pushes 12k and costs 2000 credits off my vendor. While I haven't done a study, I can't recall seeing a loot reactor over 13.5k at any level.
Barb-Wire
Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:38 am
#6
the problem with shipwright right now is threefold.
one the descriptions for a lot of the sub-components are on the wrong pieces. so if your just going by the name thinking your making a shield overcharger its actually a shield limiter and does the opposite of what your thinking it does.
second: the mass on most crafted items is far too brutal and to get that mass to a reasonable level you sacrifice in all the other areas that would make that part competitve with loot of the same level. this isnt true in all items just most like engines.
three experimention in conjunction with the above is that experimention has too little effect. either the baseline of the items need to be increased or the experimentation values when a point is expended need to be raised.
even using near perfect and perfect resources compaired to grind and sub-grind components there is little real differention between them.
basically a master shipwright like a master weaponsmith should be able to out craft 95% of all looted items with decent resources. the fact that almost all shipcrafting is done by hand keeps the value of looted items at a premium. so raising the current bar of crafted items from 50% of quality vs loot to 80% as a start wont hurt the loot market.
MonkeyLite
Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:55 am
#7
i have two possible fixes for this problem:
a. make it so a pilot cant use the loot until AFTER it has been reverse engineered (right now the parts can be just tossed into the ship right away as long as they are certed).
b. change the loot from ship components to ship component sub-components (e.g. looted engine limiters, etc)
Malitevv
Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:05 am
#8
MonkeyLite wrote:
i have two possible fixes for this problem:
a. make it so a pilot cant use the loot until AFTER it has been reverse engineered (right now the parts can be just tossed into the ship right away as long as they are certed).
b. change the loot from ship components to ship component sub-components (e.g. looted engine limiters, etc)
both of those solutions will cause problems I think. There are far more pilots than shipwrights and if every pilot has to visit a shipwright personally in order to get the parts for his ships then itmeans that a lot of pilots won't be able to get parts at all.
so long as shipwrights can't make their components in factories, the high loot drop rate, and the ease with which loot drops can be used by the pilots will need to stay the way it is.
I don't though, understand why so many of the loot drops are so much better than anything I can make even with the best resources. I don't see any need for that.
Message Edited by Malitevv on 11-04-2004 09:44 AM
CapnKate
Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:36 am
#9
Barb-Wire wrote:the problem with shipwright right now is threefold.one the descriptions for a lot of the sub-components are on the wrong pieces. so if your just going by the name thinking your making a shield overcharger its actually a shield limiter and does the opposite of what your thinking it does.second: the mass on most crafted items is far too brutal and to get that mass to a reasonable level you sacrifice in all the other areas that would make that part competitve with loot of the same level. this isnt true in all items just most like engines.three experimention in conjunction with the above is that experimention has too little effect. either the baseline of the items need to be increased or the experimentation values when a point is expended need to be raised.even using near perfect and perfect resources compaired to grind and sub-grind components there is little real differention between them.basically a master shipwright like a master weaponsmith should be able to out craft 95% of all looted items with decent resources. the fact that almost all shipcrafting is done by hand keeps the value of looted items at a premium. so raising the current bar of crafted items from 50% of quality vs loot to 80% as a start wont hurt the loot market.
1. Never seen any examples of this, myself. i snag my sub-components off the list by name and always get the effect I'm going for, so I'm not sure where you're seeing this particular problem.
2. I don't really see this, either. i find that by and large, mass values are competitive for most of the Stuff. Here I leave aside what I consider "Exceptional" loot items, Like a L4 capacitor with better stats than an L7 but half the mass or less. These are relatively uncommon, and i charge quite a bit for them.
3. Yes and no. I agree on some items-- not so much on others. Sheilds, Boosters, reactors, armor, weapons I'm happy with. Engines and Caps... not so much. Capacitors just don't seem to get much of an increas per percent experimented, while engines have too many desirable lines of experimentation to get good numbers for more than a couple of them. People look for Speed, and YPR values. If you experiment speed, the YPR sucks, if you experiment YPR, it's not bad, but the speed is substandard, even with an overdriver. If you do all four equally, it's mediocre engine, and in any of these cases, there's a fairly good body of better loot out there.
I *would* like to see quality of resource take more of a role. it seems that whether i use the best or the worst, the spread of values is somewhat negligable. And for a shipwright that prides herself on quality, it's kind of galling that a Novice with grind materials can get some numbers suprisingly close to mine in some cases.
Darrius
Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:56 am
#10
The Mass is what kills me...just too huge of a gap between the loot and my crafted. My reactors will always outperform any looted ones, energy-wise...but I'll always get killed on the Mass. Not such a big deal to Rebs and Neuts in their Tier 1+ ships...Imp Tier 1 TIE has a wicked low Mass compared to the others. This now requires more creativity and planning and decision-making than perhaps the Rebs or Imps need to to outfit their ride.
Since my Master SW is also an Imperial Navy Pilot I know first-hand.ATM, I do have a nice combination going between looted items, a low-mass (lesser power reactor), with Low energy rate caps and shields, crafted armor on the back, looted on the front and a lower energy use weapon, doing less damage, but faster firing rate (so dam/sec balances out).
Yes, I'd love to see the Mass gap closed a little. No, Imperial ships don't need more mass. Really, they should either drop the crafted mass, or allow experimented mass changes to have a greater effect or increase the mass of loot items (first two are probably easier to implement).
Ironically, that which annoys me (i.e. my crafted items having high mass) has also become an enjoyable challenge to outfit a Balanced but Capable ship.
I'm sure there's changes to come...that's why we all need to keep it constructive here and let our voices/opinions/desires known. I think we have an advantage over most of the other Trades forums in that we're New, so we have the Novelty factor and more attention coming our way. Let us not squander that
Message Edited by Darrius on 11-04-2004 12:57 PM
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