Shipwright Archive
Thread: Need more give and take regarding mass?
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Cephalo
Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:22 pm
#1
It seems to me that mass is the overriding criteria in ship choice. The small amount of manueverability gained with a small ship just doesn't seem useful. I haven't done any PvP in space yet, perhaps that is where manueverability comes in handy? The AI ships have turreted forward firing guns however, so no amount of manuevering can shake them!
It would be nice if their was a reason to choose the Kihraxz over the Kimogila upon reaching tier 2, but their just isn't is there? Is there something I'm not seeing?
It would be great if all ship choices had a purpose. I don't want everyone ending up with the same ship in the end.
It would be nice if their was a reason to choose the Kihraxz over the Kimogila upon reaching tier 2, but their just isn't is there? Is there something I'm not seeing?
It would be great if all ship choices had a purpose. I don't want everyone ending up with the same ship in the end.
BlkHwkDwn
Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:47 pm
#2
I think you are kind of missing the point, some ships are not supposed to be able to hold as much as others. I used the z-95 or a while cause it was much more maneuverable and then switched to teh long probe for the heavier firepower and armor. It is a balance to your flying style. Now only a few ships have a turret and in PVP you will need another player to man them. Believe me there are always going to be people whos flying style will dictate a maneuverable ship over a heavy one. I've heard a number of people just loving teh A-wing cause tehy can evade everything. Basically it gives people an option, if they put that 90 speed engine in an A-wing they are going to be blazing through space like they were using boosters all the time.
rols_cerentz
Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:54 pm
#3
Cephalo wrote:
It seems to me that mass is the overriding criteria in ship choice. The small amount of manueverability gained with a small ship just doesn't seem useful. I haven't done any PvP in space yet, perhaps that is where manueverability comes in handy? The AI ships have turreted forward firing guns however, so no amount of manuevering can shake them!
It would be nice if their was a reason to choose the Kihraxz over the Kimogila upon reaching tier 2, but their just isn't is there? Is there something I'm not seeing?
It would be great if all ship choices had a purpose. I don't want everyone ending up with the same ship in the end.
My sentiments exactly. I can understand needing an arbitrary limit to what components can be put into what ship, otherwise every Rebel Pilot would stick with Z-95's throughout the course of their piloting careers. That little ship is extremely manuerverable compared to the rather sluggish response of teh Y-Wing, which doesn't get much better until you are piloting an A-Wing, I understand.
It would be nice to have a combination of Mass and System Component Level to be the limit. That would go along with the story that certain vessels are older designs and thus aren't able to handle the more modern, or simply are not able to handle more powerful components being that there's just so much technological advancement that can happen in a galactic society that has been around for 25,000 years. It would make logical sense, allow some pilots to take some more risks by flying slightly less capable ships that might have a total limit of mass and total limit of accumulated levels of components installed.
Cephalo
Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:57 pm
#4
So, realistically, in what situation would you rather have the Kihraxz over the Kimogila? They are from the same tier, yet the mass difference is huge. That would imply there is a trade off somewhere, But I dont see it. In fact I'll rephrase the question. In what situation would you prefer the Kihraxz over the tier 1 Dunelizard?
What I mean by 'turret' in regards to the AI ships is that they do not have to be facing you to shoot you. They have about a 60 degree arc where their forward guns can fire. So you can juke all you want and if they are behind you, they can just track you with their 'turret'.
What I mean by 'turret' in regards to the AI ships is that they do not have to be facing you to shoot you. They have about a 60 degree arc where their forward guns can fire. So you can juke all you want and if they are behind you, they can just track you with their 'turret'.
Malitevv
Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:12 am
#5
rols_cerentz wrote:
It would be nice to have a combination of Mass and System Component Level to be the limit.
This is already there. At least in the crafted components. In the crafted components the mass increases quite rapidly as the component level increases which means the mass has got the component level built into it already.
As to whether to low mass ships provide enough of a benefit to offset their mass limitations with their maneuverability improvements: I'm not really sure. I'm still trying to figure that out. It certainly does seem that my kimo handles well enough that there isn't really any use for my kihraxz. But I'm going to force myself to fly the kihraxz for a while to find out.
Cephalo
Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:22 am
#6
One thing that I think could help the situation is if all ships were about twice or three times as fast as they currently are. They currently putt around at about 40 m.p.h., so that a quick turn really doesn't put any angular distance between you and your pursuers gunsights.
Malitevv
Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:45 am
#7
they experimented with thisa lot in beta. not speed so much, but they experimented with so-called "sliding". sliding is where you continue on your previous heading briefly even after you've turned to a different heading. I think there still is some sliding and that the heavier ships slide a little more than lighter ones, and that this sliding is part of what makes the heavier ships less maneuverable. in beta they tested physics models that had no sliding, then with physics models that had very extreme sliding. and the middle ground they chose is what we have now.
In any case, I am still willing to give the lighter ships a chance in the current physics model. I do notice, when I group with my imperial friends against groups of tier 2 and tier 3 fighters, the TIE's in my group appear to be having no problem getting right in behind the ship we are fighting, where is I, in my dunelizard (at the time) am almost always shooting at the faster NPC ships from a flanking angle because they are just turning to efficiently for me to ever get in right behind them.
PadiOne
Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:49 am
#8
Many of the ships aren't intended to be used as much more than trainers. Basically, after we level up, we're only expected to fly tier 3,4 and 5 ships.
Malitevv
Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:52 am
#9
PadiOne wrote:
Many of the ships aren't intended to be used as much more than trainers. Basically, after we level up, we're only expected to fly tier 3,4 and 5 ships.
but that observation doesn't explain why the tier 1 privateer ships has more than 2X the mass of the tier 1 imperial ships. And it doesn't explain why the two tier 2 privateer fighter has less mass then the tier 1 privateer ship. etc. There's clearly an attempt to trade off maneuverability for mass across all the tiers. The question is whether or not they've succeeded.
jason67
Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:55 am
#10
That's exactly the trade off. If you don't dogfight then the mass will be the deciding factor. But if you dogfight(which you have to in higher levels) then maneuverability is a deciding factor in survival. If i'm right behind that a-wing then it's not shooting at me
Malitevv wrote:
they experimented with thisa lot in beta. not speed so much, but they experimented with so-called "sliding". sliding is where you continue on your previous heading briefly even after you've turned to a different heading. I think there still is some sliding and that the heavier ships slide a little more than lighter ones, and that this sliding is part of what makes the heavier ships less maneuverable. in beta they tested physics models that had no sliding, then with physics models that had very extreme sliding. and the middle ground they chose is what we have now.
In any case, I am still willing to give the lighter ships a chance in the current physics model. I do notice, when I group with my imperial friends against groups of tier 2 and tier 3 fighters, the TIE's in my group appear to be having no problem getting right in behind the ship we are fighting, where is I, in my dunelizard (at the time) am almost always shooting at the faster NPC ships from a flanking angle because they are just turning to efficiently for me to ever get in right behind them.
. Also if you can stay right behind your target and get a constant line of fire on them they will drop much faster than if you have to make headlong passes at them in order to get your sights on them. However there is a time and place for the higher mass ships as well. If you were going to go up against a NOVA or DECIMATOR which have turrets then you might want to think about using a heavier ship that can carry more weapons(ie spacebombs) and can use better armor/shields so that you can survive long enough to unload your arsenal on the ship.
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