Shipwright Archive

Thread: Reselling other SW chassis and parts (your views)

PetaByte32
Fri Nov 12, 2004 6:04 am
#1

Ok first let me ask that we keep this clean and flame free. I am just wondering people's views here.


For the longest time I considered it an unwritten rule that a crafter not buy out another crafter out behind his back then resell the crafter's items on his/her vendor. To me it was borderline immorale.


But now I am reconsidering my view. Here is why. Occasionally I go to other shipwright vendors to buy loot items. You would be surprized how many do NOT reverse engineer the parts they get. And its almost always cheaper and better stats then on the bazaar.

Anyway because of this I see alot of crafters ships and parts and what they sell for. One vendor that really made me think had TIE Advanced that were decent mass for 20k each. Interceptors for 15k and so on. Basically charging 5k per tier. His parts were near to the same. Decent stats for the most part for around 1k per tier. I actually did the math and figured I had more then enough money to buy out his whole stock if I wanted. Over 250 ships and parts if I remember. But I didnt. Still this have feeling that its an immorale tactic is at the back of my head.


Anyway what are your views on this tactic? Not trying to get convinced that its a perfectally acceptable tactic. Just wondering what others thought about it.


Tyranus





Yoda: "When I die, the last of the Jedi, you will be!"
Luke: "Really? what about those 50,000 Jedi Masters outside comparing Saber Size?"
Yoda: "Sorry I am, My Bad it is"
Jagged-F3l
Fri Nov 12, 2004 6:33 am
#2

Given that we cannot view decay on either chassis or components, I think this is a rip-off, unless you plainly make it clear to players that these are "used" and the risk they are taking.



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DingoBoi
Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am
#3

buy 'em out! Markup and resell. Profits the easy way! Undercutters/lowballers get what they deserve.



~ EPC SHIPYARDS ~
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
Premium Ships & Components Featuring 5 Master Shipwrights * Powering the Eclipse Galaxy
u A R B O R E A L H O R I Z O N S u L A R G E S T S H I P Y A R D S I N T HE G A L A X Y u Naboo -6500 3300u
u M E G A C O R P u P O W E R u Talus -546 -2767u
czarnp
Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:59 am
#4




As long as the chassis are in blueprint form go for it, if they are in deed form than it becomes more difficult since there could be decay. Tyranus, I think it is acceptable to do. As a SW I sell stuff fairly cheap compared to some shipwrights, however I set my prices so that I would turn a profit on the items. So if another shipwright buys me out to resell then I still get my profit and it comes all at once! With the next patch coming up I hear chassis dealers will buy space loot from everybody meaning there may not be as much on the vendors, kind of disappointing since some people will not recognize the really good stuff. I am considering selling mainly RE'd loot since some of the stats are incredible. I had a level 3 engine yesterday RE'd that had a speed of 73, that was one of the best I have seen so far.







oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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o
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o . . : : VOLKET : : . .
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o CRIMSON CORSAIRS
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
o "I don't like taking the Rebel bounties
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
o....but a hunt is a hunt"
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
o
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o
Wrrlychewabevyr
Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:25 am
#5


I don't see any problem with it. The shipwright you found was obviously comfortable with that price or they wouldn't have set their items for that price. Therefore, they are expecting a certain return for their goods and if you buy their goods for that price then you're matching their expectations regarding the profit they expect to make for each item. It really doesn't matter where the money comes from so long as they receive the credits they expect.


Now, it is possible that the shipwright is deliberately pricing the items lower than they want because they are trying to break into an established field and they expect to raise their prices when they become established. Even so, I don't think there is anything immoral or unethical about what you are doing because the shipwright should know that they don't have any control over who buys what from their vendors. If they put their items for that cheap of a price on their vendor they are accepting the risk, in my opinion, that another shipwright will buy their goods and resell it.


Also, when you resell the items on your vendor for a higher price the creator will still be visible on the item by the consumer so you're not misleading the consumer into thinking that this is your creation. Whether they look at the creator name or not is up for debate but it is there for them to see if they choose to look.





Master Bounty Hunter biwan: Jedi Padawan biwan: Master Shipwright

"Do or do not, there is no try" Master Yoda

Wrrlyworks Fine Spacecraft and Components on Naboo, just outside of Theed at -3594 5043
TrueBoom
Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:36 am
#6






DingoBoi wrote:

buy 'em out! Markup and resell. Profits the easy way! Undercutters/lowballers get what they deserve.






Couldn't agree more!



Crestlighter Heavy Industries - FT Berchest, Naboo (2184 5363)
Boom - Master Droid Engineer/Master Artisan/Master Merchant/Weaponsmith
Iggep Master - Rifleman/Master Doctor Extraordinaire!
Raepod - Dark Jedi Knight - Pre-publish 9 DJA


BadKarma777
Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:25 am
#7


Seems to me that there is more to the story than meets the eye initially.


Now, on one hand, it's perfectly understandable that many serious shipwrights are up in arms regarding those who undercut and sell ships for ridiculously cheap prices. Essentially, you're really just trying to protect the SW profession economically, which is understandable, but there are other circumstances which, in my opion (for whatever that's worth) make the practice somehwat questionable.


You see, I'm aware, as I'm sure most of us are, that there are those multi-millionaires (they'd have to be) out there that are only interested in grinding to master and could care less about the inventory they generate along the way. They price their ships low because, quite frankly, they just want to gewt rid of them and make room for the higher quality products they expect to be producing at master.


On the other hand, what about the *earnest* shipwright?


You see, I'm sure that there are other shipwrights out there that are pricing their chassis lower (albeit, not insanely low) in order to compete with other shipwrights in the market.


Let's consider a hypothetical situation for a moment. Humor me. =)


Shipwright A is not a master. In fact, Shipwright A isn't even close and has a long way to go. Perhaps his or her playtime is limited, but whatever, you get the point. Now, shipwright B IS a master and has all manner of chassis available on his or her vendor at 'reasonable' prices as per the economy.


Because shipwright B is a master, and has a larger selection of available inventory (meaning type, not necessarily quantity), more pilot players become aware of shipwright B's vendor and business goes up.


Shipwright A on the other hand is struggling. He or she is trying to generate the revenue necessary to continue their grind towards master - as well as - gain some visibility in the market place by getting their name out to the customer base.


Shipwright B see's that shipwright A has chassis for sale on their vendor for less than their own and buys out shipwright A's entire inventory.


Now, shipwright B is probably thinking that there's nothing wrong with this. After all, shipwright A got paid right? And in the end of it all, both shipwrights got what they wanted, right? Wrong.


Put yourself in shipwright A's shoes for a moment and ask yourself how this all makes you feel?


You certainly didn't get into business in order to simply be another shipwright's 'supplier' did you? If you did, well then everything would be just 'hunky dory' but odds are, you didn't, and you're hopping mad.


You're angry because a fair portion of the work you put into those chassis was specifically to get your name out and known. To drive more business to your vendors, but in the end, you wound up driving business to your customers vendors. Trust me... you're pi$$ed off.


Having said that, I'd like to reiterate that I DO see the other side of the story, as I stated above. Thing is, that as shipwrights, you have two things working for you, though it'll take time before it all plays out.


1) Your items decay. Whether rapidly or slowly (really depends on the pilot) these items DO decay. That means repeat business down the road, and from the sounds of it, down the road is where it counts.


2) The law of attrition applies. Shipwright's who sell too low will eventually have to a) increase there prices, or b) go out of business. There's no way around it - either outcome is inevitable if you don't maintain a healthy profit margin.


Granted, the attrition I speak of will take time, but it WILL happen. Trust me. Soon enough we'll start seeing a balance getting struck within the shipwright profession and the products you sell - and that's just good for everyone involved. =)


/end novel =P




**I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick @ss... and I'm all outta bubblegum.**

Velneth
Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:49 am
#8

Heh. If someone comes and buys my shipwright vendor out, great. More cash in my pocket...

But realisticly, if you want to get people buying your stuff, you've got to be seen. If someone's buying you out, tag the items with something, so people will recognise the name brand at the very least for the future.

Heck, it may be worth while to ask whoever buys you out compleatly out if they're looking for a business partner... someone to fill the lower quality orders. Either resell to them, or get a vendor in their shop. Business relationships are great... I've met some great people because of it... heck, I wouldn't have learned about EPC had it not been from one of their memebers needing a custom order filled. (Great prices at EPC shipyards...)

If you want to just help people, contact 'em, and mention thier prices are a bit off... if they don't awnser, or shrug it off, buy 'em out!





**************************
Sooong peetch alay D'emperiolo koochoo.
Track me: SOE Forums SWGCraft
Happymob
Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:03 am
#9






BadKarma777 wrote:


Seems to me that there is more to the story than meets the eye initially.




I agree with most of what you post. Ifshipwright A is in it for money, they'll be very happy that their stock sold. If they are in it to build an ongoing retail business, they may be less than thrilled. In either case, shipwright B is happy (if a bit poorer).


The question becomes, as a potential reseller, should I respect the feelings of shipwright A? I'm not the sort of person that goes out of their way to make other players game experience worse. But in this case, we have no idea how shipwright A is going to feel. In fact, the only thing we actually know is thatshipwright Aplaced a particular item for sale on their vendor at a particular price. The only thing shipwright B can do is assume that a purchase is advantageous to the seller. Otherwise, why is it up for sale at that price? Therefore, barring other factors, the resellershould assume that it is ok to buy out the stock.


Bottom line is this - if they have some sort of sign up indicating purchasing restrictions, I'll respect that. I would expect any violators of said policy to be banned from the shop. Absent of a clear sign, the merchant must control buying behavior through pricing. The seller has control of pricing and as a result, it's the seller's responsibility to use the tool available to them.





Imadoh and Ikiecobi
Quality Resources and the Corellia Butcher - NoCo
NoCo Trade Center, Corellia (just northeast of Coronet) 796, -3076


DingoBoi
Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:40 am
#10

/wave tarrock!



-Large Marge, CEO

-EPC Shipyards & Power Corp



~ EPC SHIPYARDS ~
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
Premium Ships & Components Featuring 5 Master Shipwrights * Powering the Eclipse Galaxy
u A R B O R E A L H O R I Z O N S u L A R G E S T S H I P Y A R D S I N T HE G A L A X Y u Naboo -6500 3300u
u M E G A C O R P u P O W E R u Talus -546 -2767u
Funkbacca
Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:50 am
#11

All this would be mitigated if the fricking Ship Vendors would actually show on the planetary map. Designate a vendor as a Ship vendor. POOF/ off the map.

The smaller shipwrights would have a chance if people could actually see their vendors.

I'm a merchant and as a full on capitalist, I think that it perfectly justifiable to buy out people who are selling too low. The market is already shaking itself out... chassis sales even for the cheapies has fallen off considerably. I'm making more money selling missiles than I am selling chassis. It's a slooooow way to get that XP tho.



"Let the Wookiee win."

Main ship vendor:
'Affordable Everything' in the Camelot City Mall, just SW of the Mining Outpost on Dantooine.
Also see my vendor on Dantooine @ 5141, 3389
and just to the west of Mos Eisley @ 2549, -4594
Mkappus
Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:55 am
#12

Business is business. He is making a sale, he has no control over what is done withe the items he sells. They can be resold or destroyed for all he knows.


If you choose to take the risk of buying something with the intent of charging a higher price, that is up to you.


There are tons of people who do this on e-bay. Either go to local stores or garage sales or flea markets, but stuff for 50 cents, then sell it on ebay for 20 bucks.





Goliath
Master Shipwright, Master Architect, Master Artisan
-=V=- Shipworks 3 Locations Theed, Coronet and
Tatooine by Krayt Graveyard 5909, 4373

3 vendors at GF6 11/11 - Shipwright, Architect, Resources
Stikjok
Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:33 am
#13


One bad experience I had as an Armor Smith was with resellers cleaning out my stock. Although I was happy to sell my wares I had regular customers that were e-mailing/telling me my vendors were always empty.


This was creating a bad reputation for me as always being out of stock. I noticed one player wasbuying all my armor faster than I could craft and stock it(thanks to the sales e-mails). I sent him an e-mail and explained that my regular customers were unable to buy from me as he was cleaning out my stock. I askedhim to simply leave a few sets of armor on the vendors for other customers. He e-amiled me back and said he would, but the situation didn't change.


I ended up banning him from the mall because he had no regard for my reputation.


Before anyone asks if I was "low balling" my armor, I wasn't.


I was selling my armor within 10% of the average market price for armors with similar stats.For example aset of my comp at the timesold for 180K to 200K unlayered, and layered went for more depending on the stats and what layers were in them.


I guess my point would be buying from other SW's and reselling may be acceptable, to a point.


The best idea I seein this threadis working out a partnership with the other SW. Since many items hand crafteda partnershipis quite a good idea in many ways I think.


  • Each SW could specialize in certain products

  • Each SW could put vendors up in each others locations to spread out the chance of making a sale

  • The work load to craft and maintain stock is divided between you



Here lies Atoning Unifexfrom Eclipse
Former Crafter & Merchant
R.I.P
06-26-03 to 11-15-05
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