Shipwright Archive
Thread: I think this resolves the low-ball pricing for me
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IIscandar
Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:32 am
#1
I did some serious thinking last night and have come up with this.
In the "real-world" there are cars that sell for huge range of prices. I can go out and buy a new small economy car for under 10k or, I can buy a similar sized luxury car for 250k. Both cars do the same thing, but one is crafted better, and probably has better components. Therefore, the money you are spending can often determine the quality of the vehicle you wish to drive.
Now, BMW doesn't come out and say that Toyota is making them lose business by selling cheaper lower quality cars. They know that there are some people that will never be able to afford a BMW. Now should these people who, can not afford a bmw, be forced to ride the bus? No! Since there is a need for a lower priced car, someone, Toyota in this example, steps in and provides what is needed in the market.
Yesterday there was a post on the trade boards by Kdo. Now, at first I just let it go, but he was selling chassis for very cheap. Then I went to Theed and there he wasyelling about how cheap his chassis were and "why pay such and such, when you could pay this and such". Ohhh! I was steamed! I went to his vendor and sure enough there were some lower quality chassis in stock. I went straight back to the boards to try and help people understand that this was not the normal pricing. This was a kneejerk reaction and after further thought I've come to the following conclusion.
If he wants to run his business like Toyota, and provide lower cost, lower quality ships, then so be it! There is a market for such chassis. There are pilots out there who, for whatever reason, need lower priced chassis and parts. Otherwise they would have a hard time getting out into space. He even said later that if you want higher quality the cost will go up (lexus anyone?).
There are a 1000 arguments for why pilots should be able to afford bmw's. There are lots of ways to make money in game and those who have it, often are at a loss to understand why some can't make it too. I think I can finally say that I am glad there is a difference in price across the galaxy on ships. It is a more accurate representation of a real market. Lower quality for lower cost, higher quality for higher cost.
Sure someone buying a chassis for a lower price gives the impression that it hurts my business. But what if that chassis allows them to get into space and start making credits. Then, after they get some creds, and learn more about ships they realize there are better chassis out there. They go looking for them and maybe even buy them! So, a grind chassis can still lead someone to buy a high quality chassis.
Someone willing to lose the potential profit of shipwright to help those economily disadvantaged, is not a bad thing. We do similar things all the time in real life. Heck, if this were a more accurate sim of the real world market, the empire would be subsidizing these low-baller shipwrights so they could still sell cheap wares and make a profit.
Perhaps it is time for us to put this argument aside. Work your own business. Make suggestions when people ask, but let us no longer look from shipwright to shipwright and attack each other's business decisions. Our own business decisions have so much more effect on our income than the decisions of others.
Cheers
Atreus47
Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:50 am
#3
The problem with your analogy is that there is a much bigger difference between the ranges of quality between a real life car and a chassis in SWG. A X-Wing chassis made by a SW grinder out of junk resources he mines himself has relatively close stats to an X-Wing made by a Master using the highest quality (and most expensive) resources available. 100k for a 97k mass X-Wing, but 600k for a 100k mass one? A lot of players just can't justifly spending that kind of cash.
IIscandar
Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:33 pm
#4
Atreus47 wrote:
The problem with your analogy is that there is a much bigger difference between the ranges of quality between a real life car and a chassis in SWG. A X-Wing chassis made by a SW grinder out of junk resources he mines himself has relatively close stats to an X-Wing made by a Master using the highest quality (and most expensive) resources available. 100k for a 97k mass X-Wing, but 600k for a 100k mass one? A lot of players just can't justifly spending that kind of cash.
Yeah and I wouldn't blame them. That's 10cpu!!! I'd love to charge that for my chassis but I just can't do it. Still, to some players 3k mass makes all the difference. I really do hope that the resources a chassis is made with will start to makemore of a difference. I nearly lost my mind when I saw the same alluminum I made a chassis with awhile back go for 75cpu on the auction board.
I can't even say how many credits I lost on making that chassis when I sold it for 5cpu. *shudders*
GraySeven
Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:28 pm
#5
It would be better if there were a larger difference between resource quality used to craft the chassis. While 3k isn't a large difference, 10k or 15k is, and Mass should be heavily affected by resource quality.
I don't mind people grinding out chassis with low grade resources and selling cheap as long as the difference between quality is large enough to matter.
This would let some poor joker buy his first B-wing from Joe Static-farmer for 1.5 or 2 cpu....and later, when he has the credits, buy a much better B-wing that can hold bigger, better components because it has more room in it.
As it stands now, the difference that resource quality makes just isn't enough for me to use anything but grind quality resources in a chassis.
TomoRainer
Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:22 am
#6
Atreus47 wrote:
The problem with your analogy is that there is a much bigger difference between the ranges of quality between a real life car and a chassis in SWG. A X-Wing chassis made by a SW grinder out of junk resources he mines himself has relatively close stats to an X-Wing made by a Master using the highest quality (and most expensive) resources available. 100k for a 97k mass X-Wing, but 600k for a 100k mass one? A lot of players just can't justifly spending that kind of cash.
But some can. The high-end market will exclude some players, but you will be able to find a market willing to pay premium for good gear.
I sometimes can't buy the very best resources for equipment, as they're too expensive to turn a profit on, but I recently bought a bit of 20 cpu aluminum and 10 cpu ore to put together a "PVP-class" set of boosters using the best resources to ever spawn. I'm charging like 20K for the Mk Is up to 225K for Mk Vs, and although they're right next to the 7.5-120K standard equipment (which still uses great stuff, but not always the uberest of the uber), they're selling well to that subset of players that is very serious about space and willing to make a one-time investment for the very best. A great chassis may be somewhat harder to sell than a great component, but I expect there'll still be a market for them. Your cpu profit will be less, but your gross profit will be coming pretty quickly, so you should be able to reinvest at a faster rate. Bit of a tradeoff.
I used to be upset by low-ballers until I realized they weren't really interfering with my market. The people who want great gear aren't going to be tempted by the 20K Mk V reactor across the street if it's only got 17.5 energy gen. Likewise, some people don't feel my stuff's worth paying so much for. However, I don't think the two markets overlap or interfere with each other.. and I'm still making plenty of money.
Arestal
Wed Mar 16, 2005 3:34 am
#7
I prefer to think of it as, the cheaper the shipwright, the more willing they are to work fora smallerprofit percentage per sell.
I'm not into greed, and it's hard for me to even consider an argument about pricing.
If you can't compete in the business, stay out.
Try Armor, Weapons, or an array of other variable professions were there is less pricing competition.
Corsican_Ogre
Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:17 am
#8
Arestal wrote:
I prefer to think of it as, the cheaper the shipwright, the more willing they are to work fora smallerprofit percentage per sell.
I'm not into greed, and it's hard for me to even consider an argument about pricing.
If you can't compete in the business, stay out.
Try Armor, Weapons, or an array of other variable professions were there is less pricing competition.
Less Competition? hehe thats funny. As for the original post yes your rightI sell both kinds of hulls so I guess I am Honda/Lexus my sales are steady on both sides I make a bit more on the "Lexus" side of it but I have had Honda customers move up to a "Lexus" after they get more credits in space. The "Honda" Customers are also a good source for RE parts to get disks with.
Ackew
Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:00 am
#9
With the global vendor search on the TC now all this is moot. As with this in place ONLY the lowest price hull will be sold. A good reason for NO one to make hulls.
IIscandar
Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:47 am
#10
Ackew wrote:
With the global vendor search on the TC now all this is moot. As with this in place ONLY the lowest price hull will be sold. A good reason for NO one to make hulls.
I tend to think that players will finally be able to see the difference in quality of all kinds of shipwright components. Sure the low price is attractive, but they will quickly be able to see the old truth, you get what you pay for, without having to run all over the galaxy.
Jagged-F3l
Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:03 pm
#11
Atreus47 wrote:
The problem with your analogy is that there is a much bigger difference between the ranges of quality between a real life car and a chassis in SWG. A X-Wing chassis made by a SW grinder out of junk resources he mines himself has relatively close stats to an X-Wing made by a Master using the highest quality (and most expensive) resources available. 100k for a 97k mass X-Wing, but 600k for a 100k mass one? A lot of players just can't justifly spending that kind of cash.
Actually, somone paid me 3M credits once to use my most prized resources to prove that it wouldn't make much difference in the final product. I wasn't going to say no
Jagged-F3l
Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:55 am
#12
IIscandar wrote:
I did some serious thinking last night and have come up with this.
In the "real-world" there are cars that sell for huge range of prices. I can go out and buy a new small economy car for under 10k or, I can buy a similar sized luxury car for 250k. Both cars do the same thing, but one is crafted better, and probably has better components. Therefore, the money you are spending can often determine the quality of the vehicle you wish to drive.
Now, BMW doesn't come out and say that Toyota is making them lose business by selling cheaper lower quality cars. They know that there are some people that will never be able to afford a BMW. Now should these people who, can not afford a bmw, be forced to ride the bus? No! Since there is a need for a lower priced car, someone, Toyota in this example, steps in and provides what is needed in the market.
Yesterday there was a post on the trade boards by Kdo. Now, at first I just let it go, but he was selling chassis for very cheap. Then I went to Theed and there he wasyelling about how cheap his chassis were and "why pay such and such, when you could pay this and such". Ohhh! I was steamed! I went to his vendor and sure enough there were some lower quality chassis in stock. I went straight back to the boards to try and help people understand that this was not the normal pricing. This was a kneejerk reaction and after further thought I've come to the following conclusion.
If he wants to run his business like Toyota, and provide lower cost, lower quality ships, then so be it! There is a market for such chassis. There are pilots out there who, for whatever reason, need lower priced chassis and parts. Otherwise they would have a hard time getting out into space. He even said later that if you want higher quality the cost will go up (lexus anyone?).
There are a 1000 arguments for why pilots should be able to afford bmw's. There are lots of ways to make money in game and those who have it, often are at a loss to understand why some can't make it too. I think I can finally say that I am glad there is a difference in price across the galaxy on ships. It is a more accurate representation of a real market. Lower quality for lower cost, higher quality for higher cost.
Sure someone buying a chassis for a lower price gives the impression that it hurts my business. But what if that chassis allows them to get into space and start making credits. Then, after they get some creds, and learn more about ships they realize there are better chassis out there. They go looking for them and maybe even buy them! So, a grind chassis can still lead someone to buy a high quality chassis.
Someone willing to lose the potential profit of shipwright to help those economily disadvantaged, is not a bad thing. We do similar things all the time in real life. Heck, if this were a more accurate sim of the real world market, the empire would be subsidizing these low-baller shipwrights so they could still sell cheap wares and make a profit.
Perhaps it is time for us to put this argument aside. Work your own business. Make suggestions when people ask, but let us no longer look from shipwright to shipwright and attack each other's business decisions. Our own business decisions have so much more effect on our income than the decisions of others.
Cheers
One big difference, an ship chassis in SWG has four experimentation tracks, and an automobile in real life has 27,985 experimentation tracks.
Ackew
Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:54 am
#13
The trouble with that is. The difference between useing UBER resources in a chassi and useing grind is so little its not worth the difference. In components YES it makes a BIG enough difference to justify the price difference, but if i was to make chassis out of my uber resources the pirce for master level ship would be in the millions. The only ship people are prepared to spend that kind of money on is a Firespray. Which is a special case. People have a hard time accepting 750k for a yt-1300, let alone 1.5 million or more.
IIscandar wrote:
Ackew wrote:
With the global vendor search on the TC now all this is moot. As with this in place ONLY the lowest price hull will be sold. A good reason for NO one to make hulls.
I tend to think that players will finally be able to see the difference in quality of all kinds of shipwright components. Sure the low price is attractive, but they will quickly be able to see the old truth, you get what you pay for, without having to run all over the galaxy.
There is only 2 expermention tracks on a chassi 
Hit points and mass.
Hit points and mass.
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