Shipwright Archive
Thread: My Current Opinion On Shipwright...
4Bidden wrote:
Colaboy wrote:
I'll try to keep this short..
From the very beginning of SWG the developers wanted crafting professions to be interdependent, meaning, armorsmiths need master artisans for certain parts, architects need droid engineers for certain parts, and so on.. Shipwrights fall outside this box. All they need is resources and an equipment factory. On top of this you have a profession that doesn't have "ship component" factory support. We have to craft all engines, caps, weapons, reactors, shields, chassis, armor, launchers, droid interfaces, all by hand (doesn't help carpal tunnel).. And to make this worse, you have customers who demand cheap prices for chassis and other comps.. Sometimes I pay 3cpu for resources and end up with customers want to pay 3cpu per chassis.. Another problem I have is the loot from space.. There is to much loot to go around, and, allot of that loot is superior to crafted items. I have seen SW's on my server quit the profession cause they grew bored of it, their main complaint was "I was stuck at a crafting station and didn't need anyone else".
I feel we need more to shipwright.. We should be dependant on other professions. Chassis shouldrequire components to craft. The loot system should support the SW's, meaning, the loot from space shouldn't be better than crafted items. This would require pilots to seek out SW's for good parts, not to "hope" they loot that ubber engine.
I can agree with this. My only satisfaction is helping customers.. The profession isn't really a challenge. Nothing "requires" components, so its almost to easy. We do need more to shipwright.
Bingo. I fear if nothing is done to help this profession, the demise of SW is inevitable. The more people that leave this profession, the more preasure is put on the remaining shipwrights. Lets not forget the very limited factory support. This profession needs help, period.
Colaboy wrote:
I'll try to keep this short..
From the very beginning of SWG the developers wanted crafting professions to be interdependent, meaning, armorsmiths need master artisans for certain parts, architects need droid engineers for certain parts, and so on.. Shipwrights fall outside this box. All they need is resources and an equipment factory. On top of this you have a profession that doesn't have "ship component" factory support. We have to craft all engines, caps, weapons, reactors, shields, chassis, armor, launchers, droid interfaces, all by hand (doesn't help carpal tunnel).. And to make this worse, you have customers who demand cheap prices for chassis and other comps.. Sometimes I pay 3cpu for resources and end up with customers want to pay 3cpu per chassis.. Another problem I have is the loot from space.. There is to much loot to go around, and, allot of that loot is superior to crafted items. I have seen SW's on my server quit the profession cause they grew bored of it, their main complaint was "I was stuck at a crafting station and didn't need anyone else".
I feel we need more to shipwright.. We should be dependant on other professions. Chassis shouldrequire components to craft. The loot system should support the SW's, meaning, the loot from space shouldn't be better than crafted items. This would require pilots to seek out SW's for good parts, not to "hope" they loot that ubber engine.
We've all heard this argument before, even in the earliest beta tests (or at least my earliest). I hear your words, but I don't see your point. You point out several facts about the profession but don't explain why they are damaging.
For example, you mention that the profession has a lack of interdependance with other professions, but I say that without other professions (say pilot), our profession has no value. On top of that, in order to make the best of the best products we must work with pilots, and pilots must work with us. If that isn't interdependance than I don't know what is.
You say that our profession has no factory support; I say, who needs factory support. For most shipwrights out there there is no need for high volumes of parts. Ships are very customizable by design, and most pilots will tailor thier ship to what they want. Fitting a ship properly requires alot of customization, especially for pilots like me who like to tweak lower mass ships. On top of that you figure that the best parts are RE'd parts, so why would you want to mass produce lower quality products?
You've got customers that want something for 3 cpu? Heck, I don't know anyone who wouldn't like a chassis at 3 cpu, but that doesn't mean we should sell it at 3 cpu. I think most people would agree that you should sell your parts for whatever price makes it worth your time. Shipwright isn't going to be the most profitable, but there are credits to be made. Don't worry so much about having the best prices, in the long run you'll still develop a good customer base if you have a reputation of delivering what the customer wants.
You complain about too much loot that's better than what most shipwrights can make. Honestly I have to wonder at this, as I fly alot for loot and most of the time the loot is junk. A good shipwright can craft components that most of the time are way better than what you can loot. At the same time a pilot can work hard and gather components that when combined are better than most crafted components. Either way the high quality parts are hard to make, and both professions have a stake in makeing the best of the best.
I don't mean to sound harsh or anything. I'm sure that like me you're just trying to see this game be the best it can be. I do think that maybe you should re-evalulate why this profession was designed the way it was, and works the way it does. I know this profession is different from most other crafting professions, but I personally embrace that. The class interdependance is there, but it's different from other professions. High quality crafted parts are valuable to the right pilots. Reverse Engineered parts are valuable, and require multiple professions to make. There's nothing wrong with this, it's just something most crafters aren't used to.
Colaboy wrote:
I'll try to keep this short..
From the very beginning of SWG the developers wanted crafting professions to be interdependent, meaning, armorsmiths need master artisans for certain parts, architects need droid engineers for certain parts, and so on.. Shipwrights fall outside this box. All they need is resources and an equipment factory. On top of this you have a profession that doesn't have "ship component" factory support. We have to craft all engines, caps, weapons, reactors, shields, chassis, armor, launchers, droid interfaces, all by hand (doesn't help carpal tunnel).. And to make this worse, you have customers who demand cheap prices for chassis and other comps.. Sometimes I pay 3cpu for resources and end up with customers want to pay 3cpu per chassis.. Another problem I have is the loot from space.. There is to much loot to go around, and, allot of that loot is superior to crafted items. I have seen SW's on my server quit the profession cause they grew bored of it, their main complaint was "I was stuck at a crafting station and didn't need anyone else".
I feel we need more to shipwright.. We should be dependant on other professions. Chassis shouldrequire components to craft. The loot system should support the SW's, meaning, the loot from space shouldn't be better than crafted items. This would require pilots to seek out SW's for good parts, not to "hope" they loot that ubber engine.
Thunderbyte wrote:
Colaboy wrote:
I'll try to keep this short..
From the very beginning of SWG the developers wanted crafting professions to be interdependent, meaning, armorsmiths need master artisans for certain parts, architects need droid engineers for certain parts, and so on.. Shipwrights fall outside this box. All they need is resources and an equipment factory. On top of this you have a profession that doesn't have "ship component" factory support. We have to craft all engines, caps, weapons, reactors, shields, chassis, armor, launchers, droid interfaces, all by hand (doesn't help carpal tunnel).. And to make this worse, you have customers who demand cheap prices for chassis and other comps.. Sometimes I pay 3cpu for resources and end up with customers want to pay 3cpu per chassis.. Another problem I have is the loot from space.. There is to much loot to go around, and, allot of that loot is superior to crafted items. I have seen SW's on my server quit the profession cause they grew bored of it, their main complaint was "I was stuck at a crafting station and didn't need anyone else".
I feel we need more to shipwright.. We should be dependant on other professions. Chassis shouldrequire components to craft. The loot system should support the SW's, meaning, the loot from space shouldn't be better than crafted items. This would require pilots to seek out SW's for good parts, not to "hope" they loot that ubber engine.
We've all heard this argument before, even in the earliest beta tests (or at least my earliest). I hear your words, but I don't see your point. You point out several facts about the profession but don't explain why they are damaging.
For example, you mention that the profession has a lack of interdependance with other professions, but I say that without other professions (say pilot), our profession has no value. On top of that, in order to make the best of the best products we must work with pilots, and pilots must work with us. If that isn't interdependance than I don't know what is.
You say that our profession has no factory support; I say, who needs factory support. For most shipwrights out there there is no need for high volumes of parts. Ships are very customizable by design, and most pilots will tailor thier ship to what they want. Fitting a ship properly requires alot of customization, especially for pilots like me who like to tweak lower mass ships. On top of that you figure that the best parts are RE'd parts, so why would you want to mass produce lower quality products?
You've got customers that want something for 3 cpu? Heck, I don't know anyone who wouldn't like a chassis at 3 cpu, but that doesn't mean we should sell it at 3 cpu. I think most people would agree that you should sell your parts for whatever price makes it worth your time. Shipwright isn't going to be the most profitable, but there are credits to be made. Don't worry so much about having the best prices, in the long run you'll still develop a good customer base if you have a reputation of delivering what the customer wants.
You complain about too much loot that's better than what most shipwrights can make. Honestly I have to wonder at this, as I fly alot for loot and most of the time the loot is junk. A good shipwright can craft components that most of the time are way better than what you can loot. At the same time a pilot can work hard and gather components that when combined are better than most crafted components. Either way the high quality parts are hard to make, and both professions have a stake in makeing the best of the best.
I don't mean to sound harsh or anything. I'm sure that like me you're just trying to see this game be the best it can be. I do think that maybe you should re-evalulate why this profession was designed the way it was, and works the way it does. I know this profession is different from most other crafting professions, but I personally embrace that. The class interdependance is there, but it's different from other professions. High quality crafted parts are valuable to the right pilots. Reverse Engineered parts are valuable, and require multiple professions to make. There's nothing wrong with this, it's just something most crafters aren't used to.
Thunderbyte, I don't think you know what he meant about interdependence. Sure, you need pilot info to assist in the crafting process, but this information is almost entirely "customer service" orientated. A pilot would talk to you on how he would want his parts/ship. What colaboywas trying to point out is that our profession doesn't require "components" from another profession for our crafting process. i.e. If chefs want make better food/drinks, they would need a BE for additives.... If a smuggler wants to slice, they would have to seek outa WS and a AS for upgrade kits.. Architects need artisans and DE's for certain things... That's what he was talking about.. SW would be much more dynamic and challenging if it depended on other professions for components.
I truly believe this is the sole reason SW is the way it is. Customers know shipwrights only need resources to craft.. This is one of the main reason they expect low prices. If ship parts/chassis required components from another profession, I will guarantee you prices will go up. Undercutters would start to bring up their prices to meet market demand. If your products take more work, it will be worth more.
Keep it the way it is, and I will guarantee you the lowballers will never go away.
Sytem wrote:
Thunderbyte, I don't think you know what he meant about interdependence. Sure, you need pilot info to assist in the crafting process, but this information is almost entirely "customer service" orientated. A pilot would talk to you on how he would want his parts/ship. What colaboywas trying to point out is that our profession doesn't require "components" from another profession for our crafting process. i.e. If chefs want make better food/drinks, they would need a BE for additives.... If a smuggler wants to slice, they would have to seek outa WS and a AS for upgrade kits.. Architects need artisans and DE's for certain things... That's what he was talking about.. SW would be much more dynamic and challenging if it depended on other professions for components.
I truly believe this is the sole reason SW is the way it is. Customers know shipwrights only need resources to craft.. This is one of the main reason they expect low prices. If ship parts/chassis required components from another profession, I will guarantee you prices will go up. Undercutters would start to bring up their prices to meet market demand. If your products take more work, it will be worth more.
Keep it the way it is, and I will guarantee you the lowballers will never go away.
What market are you serving? How good are the resources you're using? How good is your competition, and how is s/he priced? How well do you stock your shop? Have you got vendor searches turned on? Do you make yourself available for pilots, be it for REing, outfitting entire ships, crafting custom parts, etc.--the kinds of things that win their loyalty and continued patronage? How's your location and reputation and how long've you been in business and all that? How's your server's JTL presence? Are there a lot of pilots or not so many?
I'm not about to presume it's possible to do great in all situations on all servers, but I am selling a lot of crafted gear to a lot of different people--and I'm becoming more and more convinced that the space economy is or has the potential to be great, with high prices analogous to the ground both in terms of the best crafted stuff and the uber looted stuff. We face numerous problems as shipwrights, not least of which is we've only existed for 6 months, JTL isn't frequented by everyone like the ground game is, and in a lot of cases markets are still in their early stage of development.
However, these drawbacks can become a remarkable advantage in that a small amount of shipwrights can forge a market out of what appears to be nothing. Much of the demand will be dependent on how gung ho your server is about space, but a great way to get them up there is to provide the goods and services they need to have fun up there. Prove to them that your gear is worth dropping heavy credits on, and I can all but guarantee the market will build itself. If you're in on it from the start, you'll stand to make a lot of money.
Message Edited by TomoRainer on 03-29-2005 01:11 AM
xtxShifter wrote:
The only thing I can sell now are missile packs and looted parts. No one buys premium guality components anymore because they cost too much and they can usualy loot stuff that does a better job anyways. Chassis don't sell at all - not even at 3cpu.