Shipwright Archive
Thread: Resource cpu, Super-profits n' Us
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FlereImsaho
Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:50 am
#1
SW created a lot of demand for resources in volume. The solo group payout NERf means a lot less credits flowing into the system, also crafting/harvesting is relatively more attractive as an option to make credits. There was a lot of lot swapping to accomodate increase resource demand so we have much more resources flowing into the system and a lot less credits....so cpu will deflate n' re-establish an equilibrium in time. Supply n demand (assuming perfect knowledge - ignorant will be at a dis-advantage so don't be 1) will dictate prices and super-profits will be driven from the market to some degree. SW's who recognise these effects and respond quickly will be succesful, stubborn SW's who think they can get away with 20cpu on components are kidding themselves.
This post is a response to all the complaints of market collapse and pricing issues. If I charge 1 cred for a TIE I need no permission or feel no guilt, none will be sought. - Market forces will dictate, there is no amount of lowballing or greed which can damage the economy. Only the ignorant will make poor decisions and they will fall away in time.
This post is a response to all the complaints of market collapse and pricing issues. If I charge 1 cred for a TIE I need no permission or feel no guilt, none will be sought. - Market forces will dictate, there is no amount of lowballing or greed which can damage the economy. Only the ignorant will make poor decisions and they will fall away in time.
EdOWar
Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:21 am
#2
The only people who will 'fall away in time' are idiot shipwrights who sell all their stuff for 1 cpu. Go ahead, burn through your best resources for dirt cheap prices just so your competitors can buy out your stock. Have fun.
Slim Vargo, Corbantis
Kalano
Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:31 am
#3
EdOWar wrote:
The only people who will 'fall away in time' are idiot shipwrights who sell all their stuff for 1 cpu. Go ahead, burn through your best resources for dirt cheap prices just so your competitors can buy out your stock. Have fun.
Slim Vargo, Corbantis
Those people will not last forever, either they run out of credits fast, or they burn out fast trying to keep up, or they finally hit master and start charging for that.
The economy is like the circle of life with some dev controll. it will continuely cycle in a circle. Now it will start making a smaller circle with less credits coming in instead of the huge circle it has become. It will not change over night, but compare it in a years time and you will probably see a major difference then.
FlereImsaho
Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:23 pm
#4
Yes - selling at less than cost is unsustainable so there is no need for any SW to have issue with perceived 'lowballers'. Pilots who feel they are being charged too much can shop elsewhere so the 'greed' merchants can't sustain their sales.....no need for anyone to take issue with anyone else over pricing.
Hallelujah praise the Lord of market forces
Hallelujah praise the Lord of market forces
Fishbreath
Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:26 pm
#5
Im probably the cheapest on my server, and have a grateful and loyal customer base...Tier 1-2 Chassis=1cpu, Tier 3-4=3cpu, and Master level ships=500K (A smidgen over 3cpu) and I do well, I mine all 30 of my harvesters....the "mainstay" of the buisness are my Astromechs and Flight computers and memory chips....kinda a "one stop shop" for space....Mark I missles for 5K, Mark 2 for 8K, Mark III for 12K.....always selling......Im not going anywhere anytime soon....Im gone a day or 2, come back and have 50 e-mails for orders......since all my resources are gotten at like 0.5cpu, when I sell for 1 cpu, I double my investment....most of the stuff I sell is at 3cpu.....bank account always seems to go up, not dramatically, but steady over time, like the S&P 500......1 mans experience.
Ackew
Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:54 pm
#6
I made master 2nd day of JTL and started a vendor the same day. I'm NOT cheap but i do provide QUALITY and TOP quality at that. I also providesomeone to talk to about purchases and am willing to make itmes the wayYOU want them made usualy on the spot too. I have had 3 or 4 if not more low balling s/w's start in cites near me and thier ALL gone now and I'm still here and sales are geting better and better as people find out that if you want some good you HAVE to pay for it. if you want to sell you stuff at 1cpu or even less. Good luck to you, you will be gone soon enough as you either bea burn out from haveing to HAND make 000's of itmes (if thier any good) to keep up with demand or as it much more likely if you selling so low you start out with loads of sales as your cheap but then people find your stuff is crap and go find a QUALITY s/'w like myself and see the difference.
sbob
Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:44 pm
#7
Thing that many who have not been in the merchant business for long forget is that there are costs with running a shop other than just the straight cpu cost for resources. The maintance for the shop, the vendors, the factories (when can use them) as well as time to stock, maintain and shop for the good resources. Though this does not justify the high cost that some pay it really boils down to how one runs the business what you can afford to charge. The person who does not mine anything on their own and buys stuff off vendors and miners paying 3-6cpu can not afford to sell at 1-3 cpu as not cost effective. Those that work and mine own stuff, work out trades or find ways to cut costs can charge less and still make a proffit. Myself I tend to seel the lower level ships at lower prices (from 1-2 cpu) and go up for the higher tier ships. Part of the reason is its benifecial to get people up in space as that creats more customers. When you charge 10 cpu for the novice-tier 2 ships you creat a block on new customers. Taking the hit on some of the lower level items gets you those customers who will need higher stuff soon enough thise more business. Also if you keep prices in line more likely to comeback.
Mot saying that the 'greedy' or the 'lowballers' are right just that they use diffrent business practices. Though one way to compare trhe change in practice is look at the airline industry. You have the Delta/American/United air lines that are big and pay for the biggest and best of thinsg and you end up paying more for that, then you have southwest who rins a lean more cost effictive shop based on value pricing and keeping overhead low so costs to customers can be low. Look at which business modle is working best in that case.
Mot saying that the 'greedy' or the 'lowballers' are right just that they use diffrent business practices. Though one way to compare trhe change in practice is look at the airline industry. You have the Delta/American/United air lines that are big and pay for the biggest and best of thinsg and you end up paying more for that, then you have southwest who rins a lean more cost effictive shop based on value pricing and keeping overhead low so costs to customers can be low. Look at which business modle is working best in that case.
Rhysen
Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:12 pm
#8
Fishbreath wrote:
Im probably the cheapest on my server, and have a grateful and loyal customer base...Tier 1-2 Chassis=1cpu, Tier 3-4=3cpu, and Master level ships=500K (A smidgen over 3cpu) and I do well, I mine all 30 of my harvesters....the "mainstay" of the buisness are my Astromechs and Flight computers and memory chips....kinda a "one stop shop" for space....Mark I missles for 5K, Mark 2 for 8K, Mark III for 12K.....always selling......Im not going anywhere anytime soon....Im gone a day or 2, come back and have 50 e-mails for orders......since all my resources are gotten at like 0.5cpu, when I sell for 1 cpu, I double my investment....most of the stuff I sell is at 3cpu.....bank account always seems to go up, not dramatically, but steady over time, like the S&P 500......1 mans experience.
Sorry, but SWG is not worth $32 - $48 per month to have 30 lots. I haven't tried a lot swap but I suspect I never will due to ethical stance. I seriously doubt the game developers factored in people having more than 10 lots when balancing the resource costs of products. Which is prolly why Shipwright got hit with such high resource volume requirements.
So I won't follow your lead as that'd lead me to ruin. Sure, with my 5 lots (2 for shop, 1 for fusion, 1 for factory, 1 for POB ship/house) I could supply a miniscule amount of people for around the same prices. But I'm finding it better to utilize those 5 lots harvesting large amounts of HQ resources when it spawns and buying resources for general production.
TomoRainer
Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:59 pm
#9
We'll see if high-end component shipwrights have to drop our prices. I doubt we will for the following reasons: high-end resources have stayed costly, you can make as much in space as you could on the ground before the solo group nerf, and a well-stocked vendor with quality product is still extremely rare.
I sell for 16-20 cpu on components. My sales dropped slowly but steadily from November through mid-December, but about a couple weeks ago, they started to pick up again--and right now my sales are at their highest point ever, 1.5-2x as high as when I first made master in early November. I'm sure some of this is from a bunch of people getting JTL for Christmas, but I can tell by how many people are buying what that a lot of it's simple word of mouth and the fact there are only a couple of shipwrights who provide both the quality and availability of the stuff on my vendor. Which, let me tell you, is costing me a lot in time and credits to produce--enough that I think my prices are not only justified, but necessary to continue the shop at this level. The only thing I can see causing prices to drop is if demand also drops significantly, but so long as I still can't afford to buy the best of the best resources for my components, I really don't think I'm overcharging here.
I sell for 16-20 cpu on components. My sales dropped slowly but steadily from November through mid-December, but about a couple weeks ago, they started to pick up again--and right now my sales are at their highest point ever, 1.5-2x as high as when I first made master in early November. I'm sure some of this is from a bunch of people getting JTL for Christmas, but I can tell by how many people are buying what that a lot of it's simple word of mouth and the fact there are only a couple of shipwrights who provide both the quality and availability of the stuff on my vendor. Which, let me tell you, is costing me a lot in time and credits to produce--enough that I think my prices are not only justified, but necessary to continue the shop at this level. The only thing I can see causing prices to drop is if demand also drops significantly, but so long as I still can't afford to buy the best of the best resources for my components, I really don't think I'm overcharging here.
Jagged-F3l
Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:53 pm
#10
FlereImsaho wrote:
SW created a lot of demand for resources in volume. The solo group payout NERf means a lot less credits flowing into the system, also crafting/harvesting is relatively more attractive as an option to make credits. There was a lot of lot swapping to accomodate increase resource demand so we have much more resources flowing into the system and a lot less credits....so cpu will deflate n' re-establish an equilibrium in time. Supply n demand (assuming perfect knowledge - ignorant will be at a dis-advantage so don't be 1) will dictate prices and super-profits will be driven from the market to some degree. SW's who recognise these effects and respond quickly will be succesful, stubborn SW's who think they can get away with 20cpu on components are kidding themselves.
This post is a response to all the complaints of market collapse and pricing issues. If I charge 1 cred for a TIE I need no permission or feel no guilt, none will be sought. - Market forces will dictate, there is no amount of lowballing or greed which can damage the economy. Only the ignorant will make poor decisions and they will fall away in time.
In case you haven't noticed, the high quality resources required to make the kind of components that pilots seek out don't spawn cycle on any server. You're lucky if you see that wonderful "4 star" (i.e., four stats are about 900) duralloy steel once every 2-3 months. And even then, just how much of this stuff can one player harvest before it goes away? Half million units. A million units if you're lucky enough to have the lots or friends. A couple million if you have a guild behind you. How long can such a resource last? Look at the resource consumption of level 7 and 9 components--it's in the thousands. Check out the resource consumption of a bloody missile pack.
In fact, there used to be a SW on our server that came begging me for resources after he burned through all his and didn't have the money to buy resources of sufficient quality to continue his run. Oh well, I guess supply and demand does rule
Subcriminal
Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:17 pm
#11
TomoRainer wrote:
We'll see if high-end component shipwrights have to drop our prices. I doubt we will for the following reasons: high-end resources have stayed costly, you can make as much in space as you could on the ground before the solo group nerf, and a well-stocked vendor with quality product is still extremely rare.
I sell for 16-20 cpu on components. My sales dropped slowly but steadily from November through mid-December, but about a couple weeks ago, they started to pick up again--and right now my sales are at their highest point ever, 1.5-2x as high as when I first made master in early November. I'm sure some of this is from a bunch of people getting JTL for Christmas, but I can tell by how many people are buying what that a lot of it's simple word of mouth and the fact there are only a couple of shipwrights who provide both the quality and availability of the stuff on my vendor. Which, let me tell you, is costing me a lot in time and credits to produce--enough that I think my prices are not only justified, but necessary to continue the shop at this level. The only thing I can see causing prices to drop is if demand also drops significantly, but so long as I still can't afford to buy the best of the best resources for my components, I really don't think I'm overcharging here.
My sales started out really well and them slumped a bit as the market was swarming with "flavor of the month" shipwrights. Now that a lot of people are quitting the business, my sales havepicked up and I am getting a lot of repeat customers (40% of sales and climbing). I charge 15cpu.
I for one am not worried about the lowballers. I've been a successful crafter since SWG launch and have noticed a few things.
1) Undercutters cannot compete in a trade where resource quality directly affects the quality of the product. If you want an example take a look at armorsmith, weaponsmith, chef, etc...
2) Undercutters who try to make quality products piss through their resources faster then they can replenish them. This = DEATH if their products require unique resource spawns.
Both are true for Shipwright, and those who cut their throats with the price wars are quitting the profession.
You can get away with undercutting for professions like Tailor, Architect, and perhaps DE because you can harvest absolute crap and it makes little difference with your products. But anyone who tries to pull that crap with Armorsmith, Weaponsmith, Shipwright, BE and Chef willDIE FAST. And they are flattering themselves if they think they are doing the "poor players" a freaking favor by undercutting, the fact of the matter is they won't be in business long enough to "help" anyone. I've seen this happen to so many players out there countless times, so undercutters don't frighten me.
Charge a fair price for a good product and they will come.
FlereImsaho
Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:59 pm
#12
I'm harvesting my own resources n' I don't craft unless it's quality. I have been pricing around 12cpu on components however the sight of those massive harvestor fields has hit home. SW spawns last longer so yield is greater, I have started to see grind cpu hit a fraction of a cred and adverts for all resources 5cpu and under (including gefeseirac). I will now price my components at 8cpu as: - 1. I can harvest much cheaper than this 2. replenish through miners without having to raise prices. Im on Eclipse but imagine the same effect is taking place on all servers to some degree.
Bastilaa
Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:36 pm
#13
I'm pretty sure I'm one of the biggest SW on my server and have every item in stock all the time, with bi-weekly restocks on every item, back stocks of every part, 6 of each chassis always available (except MP and Firesprayonly hold 2 on hand). I sell a large amount of stock every day, and I'm by no means the cheapest at 20cpu, but I use nothing but the best materials in all my parts, a recent spawn of the best steel ever I mined/bought 35 million units, down to 16 million left, chassis I charge 7cpu as again I use nothing but high quality resources. Yes there are others that are cheaper, but I always have it in stock, and with the speed you can make money in space and the fact I craft with nothing but the best I get a lot of repeat business.
Credits are not my goal never have been, fun is my goal. I love to craft but I also love to play and do other stuff in game, if I charged less than I do now I would be locked up in my crafting house forever, or would not have fullyed stocked vendors. Based on the fact that with my current prices I'm crafting upto 600 parts per week just to keep up I think I'm pretty well priced.
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