Shipwright Archive
Thread: The Next Step
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Chavabegga
Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:29 am
#1
Now that we will soon have components for our POB ships that are worthy of their size and sluggishness I feel the next step in the space evolution should be towards those capital ships we have been tempted with since FF. Here is my proposal of how to implement them.
First there will be a new category of components: Capital ship grade components
These will cover all the same categories as the elite components with the addition of Mark V proton torpedoes(and yes I call them torpedoes since thats what they were in the movies despite the game calling them missiles) and the exception of the booster. No capital ships will have boosters. Their masses will all be 1-2 million. That way someone could put them on a the old POB ships but just not very many.
1. Capital Shields- max shield strength 20k f/b regen approx 30
2. Capital Armor- 15k
3. Capital Grade Reactor- 40k energy
4. Capital Capacitor- 10k storage, 100 regen
5. Capital Engines- 150 spd, 100 ypr
6. Mk V Proton Torpedoes- 15k max dmg, 20 capacity in missile pack
7. Turbo laser- the only capital gun, 6-10k dmg, 0.6 v sh/ar, can't go below 0.3 refire
Second, there will be two types of capital ships, gunboat and light capital ship.
Current POB Ship:
Mass would remain the same except their acceleration/deceleration and turning would be quadrupled.
Gunboats:
These will have the same mass as current POB ships but have 5-6 turrets.
They would have about double the current POB acceleration/deceleration and turning stats. Their top speed modifier would be 0.7
Ship Classes: As seen the in game plus the Y-8
Light Capital Ships:
These ships would reallly be the whole new animal. They would need to be destroyed in the same way that the Corvette and ISD npc ships need to be destroyed (2 shields, engine, reactor, bridge) but there would be a few modifications so that they are far harder to destroy than the npc versions.
They would have about 30million mass and the acceleration/deceleration and turning stats that the current POB ships have. Their top speed modifier would be 0.5.
1). Since turrets can be destroyed without taking out the shields on the np Corvette, it will be altered so that the armor strength of a turret on a Corvette is equal to the strength of the shields and the armor installed on the ship plus the turrets own armor. For convenience only one armor slot will be available and the shield strenght will equal the average of the 4 shields(F/B on the two different shields)
Example: You are attacking a Corvette that has captial armor of 15k and two shields with F: 18k B:18k on one and F:20k, B:17k on the other which is an average of 18.25k. Therefore you would have to do 33.25k of damage to a turret to destroy it.
2). In order to destroy shields the amount of damage done to them must equal the front and back stats added together. So if the attacked the first shield from the example aboice you would have to do 36k of damage. So now instead of one proton torpedo taking out a shield like on the npc ship, you will need to fire at least 2 spacebombs.
3). Once the shields are destroyed, the turrets only have the armor added to their armor hit points. So using the first example, when the shields have been destroyed, a turret could only take 15k+its armor amount of damage. This way having good shields helps but still allows the taking out of turrets before shields are taken out.
4). All components can be repaired by crew members but instead of simply click and repair a mini-game must be played. For the corvette the stations to repair the systems will be scattered through out the ship at the various terminals already onboard. For example, in the rear of the ship where you have to set the hyperdrive for the Vette mission would be wear the engines are reparied. This would encourage an even larger crew then just those manning turrets and flying. The components must be repaired in the reverse order of destruction(ie can't repair the shields until the engine is back up and running)
5). Instead of redoing the inside of the Corvette to add in turret spaces, some of the control rooms seen in the internal layout will be used. For instance, on the upper deck, the control room at the end of the corridor.
Other light capital ships models that could be used: Nebulon-B Frigate(model already in game), Lancer Frigate
Deep Deep Space
This would be a new zone for capital ship combat. This zone would be the size of a standard zone cubed. On one end would be an indestructable Imperial Star Destroyer and on the other would be an indestructable Mon Calamari cruiser. These ships would have guns that could shoot and be destroyed and the ship could be disabled byt not destroyed. The zone would be a pvp zone. Players would compete trying to disable the opposing sides ships which would prevent protective gun fire and npc spawns from occuring.
Player could dock with their respective sides ship and then walk around the inside of the ship, get missions from crewmembers, etc. There would be a cantina/medcenter onboard.
Wishful Thinking:
It would be very cool if in addition to the above the option to dock with and board capital ships was implemented. After a capital ships engines are taken out, an attacking POB ship could use the dock command and if it is not destroyed in the process of docking would be attached to the capital ship. At these point two options exist. One, both ships become unattackable, 2 both ships can be destroyed.
The attackers objective would be the same as the Corvette destroy mission. Each side could have the same size crew, max 20 onboard a ship I believe?
Option 1: To avoid clone camping the room the invaders spawn in would not be able to be entered by the crew of the capital ship. There would also be a similar room the invaders could not enter where the crew would spawn. This spot may become camped but each ship would at least have a moment to get ready for action before being attacked.
Option 2: No one can clone. If you die, you are dead, and you clone back on the nearest clone center(in deep deep space that would be your sides capital ship)
Option 3: Clong proceeds like option 1 until someone destroys the docked ship in which case the attackers can not respawn.
Option 4: The Crew has a similiar series of functions they must do on their ship which would activate an anti-intruder system that would eject the invaders ship and prevent them from respawning.
I can just picture a massive battle in deep deep space. Each side has 5 capital ships. Some on both sides are disabled fighting off boarding parties. Some are raking the large capital shipsturrets. There are player and npc fighters dashing back and forth engaging other fighters, trying to take out capital ship components. In a word it would be Glorious. That is the expansion I would happily pay for. Not this Mustafar crap.
Drusan
Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:08 am
#2
I like your post but I think the emphasis should be on getting more people into space and pvp'ing than putting in capital ships. Right now, there's no reason to pvp and the battles are far too quick. There's also no real reason for people to spend time in space doing non-pvp stuff either other than to gather RE components.
What happens if we get capital ships? They're a great idea but are they going to bring more people into space?
"Oh cool!!! We're in a capital ship. Ok, what do we do with it?"
Great for RP, don't get me wrong but that's about all you can do with them.
I want more content,like the ability to board capital ships and spacestations out in space to either adventure in or that operate as NPC cities.
Chavabegga
Sat Sep 03, 2005 8:13 pm
#3
My idea had both boarding capital ships in combat and non combat.
But I agree, there needs to be more content in space also. I thing capital ships along the lines I described or at least similar, would be a good chunk of content. Making the space stations available to dock at would be another good thing to do. Increasing the size of the space zones or adding new ones in which you could place player owner space stations would be another great addition. Make the stations be something to fight over for zone control similar to planet bases. Add a Super Star Destroyer in somewhere. Advance to ROTJ and have a major space battle with the destruction of the Death Star.
Jagged-F3l
Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:59 pm
#4
Chavabegga wrote:
Now that we will soon have components for our POB ships that are worthy of their size and sluggishness I feel the next step in the space evolution should be towards those capital ships we have been tempted with since FF. Here is my proposal of how to implement them.
First there will be a new category of components: Capital ship grade components
These will cover all the same categories as the elite components with the addition of Mark V proton torpedoes(and yes I call them torpedoes since thats what they were in the movies despite the game calling them missiles) and the exception of the booster. No capital ships will have boosters. Their masses will all be 1-2 million. That way someone could put them on a the old POB ships but just not very many.
1. Capital Shields- max shield strength 20k f/b regen approx 30
2. Capital Armor- 15k
3. Capital Grade Reactor- 40k energy
4. Capital Capacitor- 10k storage, 100 regen
5. Capital Engines- 150 spd, 100 ypr
6. Mk V Proton Torpedoes- 15k max dmg, 20 capacity in missile pack
7. Turbo laser- the only capital gun, 6-10k dmg, 0.6 v sh/ar, can't go below 0.3 refire
I like certain aspects of your proposal,but there are otheraspects thatrepresent astep in the wrong direction for a lot of reasons. First, the resource requirements on these components would be completely off the scale. Second, it isn't the spirit in which larger ships should be built in the Star Wars EU. The only exception might be the reactor (for some reason, ships in the Star Wars EU love sporting big, oversized, centralized reactor systems). However, think about this proposal:
1. Propulsion--capital ships should have multiple engines. Think about the Corellian Corvette; it has eleven large engines propelling it. No one engine is "uber" per se, but together they create a formidable system. This also allows players to customize their propulations ships for their needs. Perhaps you can even introducethe notion of anRCS (Reaction Control System) that would be dedicated to maneuvering. Of course, in the interest of balance, the chassis would have modifiers that would keep capital ships balanced against starfighters and current POB ships.
2. Shield Generation--capital ships should have a distributed shield generation system. Larger ships can even allow for layered shields. No one shield generator is all that powerful, perhaps no more powerful than current elite shield generators. This provides some balance. It also forces players to use very different tactics in the face of a one or two failed shield generators.
3. Armor Plating--capital ships should have a large number of points that a player can attach armor plating. Again, no one piece of armor is all taht powerful, perhaps no more so than elite armor plating. This allows for balance. For bigger capital ships, perhaps plating can be "doubled up", but this should absolutely affect speed acceleration/deceleration and rotational acceleration/deceleration along the YPR axes.
4. Weapon Capacitors--should be paired individual with weapons.
And so forth.
Second, there will be two types of capital ships, gunboat and light capital ship.
Current POB Ship:
Mass would remain the same except their acceleration/deceleration and turning would be quadrupled.
I don't like the idea of quadrupling rotational acceleration of current POB ships. This would bring them inline with some of the existing starfighters, such as the TIE Aggressor and Ixiyen Attack Craft. I agree that something needs to be done, but it can't be done at the cost of balance.
Gunboats:
These will have the same mass as current POB ships but have 5-6 turrets.
They would have about double the current POB acceleration/deceleration and turning stats. Their top speed modifier would be 0.7
Ship Classes: As seen the in game plus the Y-8
Light Capital Ships:
These ships would reallly be the whole new animal. They would need to be destroyed in the same way that the Corvette and ISD npc ships need to be destroyed (2 shields, engine, reactor, bridge) but there would be a few modifications so that they are far harder to destroy than the npc versions.
They would have about 30million mass and the acceleration/deceleration and turning stats that the current POB ships have. Their top speed modifier would be 0.5.
1). Since turrets can be destroyed without taking out the shields on the np Corvette, it will be altered so that the armor strength of a turret on a Corvette is equal to the strength of the shields and the armor installed on the ship plus the turrets own armor. For convenience only one armor slot will be available and the shield strenght will equal the average of the 4 shields(F/B on the two different shields)
Example: You are attacking a Corvette that has captial armor of 15k and two shields with F: 18k B:18k on one and F:20k, B:17k on the other which is an average of 18.25k. Therefore you would have to do 33.25k of damage to a turret to destroy it.
2). In order to destroy shields the amount of damage done to them must equal the front and back stats added together. So if the attacked the first shield from the example aboice you would have to do 36k of damage. So now instead of one proton torpedo taking out a shield like on the npc ship, you will need to fire at least 2 spacebombs.
3). Once the shields are destroyed, the turrets only have the armor added to their armor hit points. So using the first example, when the shields have been destroyed, a turret could only take 15k+its armor amount of damage. This way having good shields helps but still allows the taking out of turrets before shields are taken out.
4). All components can be repaired by crew members but instead of simply click and repair a mini-game must be played. For the corvette the stations to repair the systems will be scattered through out the ship at the various terminals already onboard. For example, in the rear of the ship where you have to set the hyperdrive for the Vette mission would be wear the engines are reparied. This would encourage an even larger crew then just those manning turrets and flying. The components must be repaired in the reverse order of destruction(ie can't repair the shields until the engine is back up and running)
5). Instead of redoing the inside of the Corvette to add in turret spaces, some of the control rooms seen in the internal layout will be used. For instance, on the upper deck, the control room at the end of the corridor.
Other light capital ships models that could be used: Nebulon-B Frigate(model already in game), Lancer Frigate
Deep Deep Space
This would be a new zone for capital ship combat. This zone would be the size of a standard zone cubed. On one end would be an indestructable Imperial Star Destroyer and on the other would be an indestructable Mon Calamari cruiser. These ships would have guns that could shoot and be destroyed and the ship could be disabled byt not destroyed. The zone would be a pvp zone. Players would compete trying to disable the opposing sides ships which would prevent protective gun fire and npc spawns from occuring.
Player could dock with their respective sides ship and then walk around the inside of the ship, get missions from crewmembers, etc. There would be a cantina/medcenter onboard.
Wishful Thinking:
It would be very cool if in addition to the above the option to dock with and board capital ships was implemented. After a capital ships engines are taken out, an attacking POB ship could use the dock command and if it is not destroyed in the process of docking would be attached to the capital ship. At these point two options exist. One, both ships become unattackable, 2 both ships can be destroyed.
The attackers objective would be the same as the Corvette destroy mission. Each side could have the same size crew, max 20 onboard a ship I believe?
Option 1: To avoid clone camping the room the invaders spawn in would not be able to be entered by the crew of the capital ship. There would also be a similar room the invaders could not enter where the crew would spawn. This spot may become camped but each ship would at least have a moment to get ready for action before being attacked.
Option 2: No one can clone. If you die, you are dead, and you clone back on the nearest clone center(in deep deep space that would be your sides capital ship)
Option 3: Clong proceeds like option 1 until someone destroys the docked ship in which case the attackers can not respawn.
Option 4: The Crew has a similiar series of functions they must do on their ship which would activate an anti-intruder system that would eject the invaders ship and prevent them from respawning.
I can just picture a massive battle in deep deep space. Each side has 5 capital ships. Some on both sides are disabled fighting off boarding parties. Some are raking the large capital shipsturrets. There are player and npc fighters dashing back and forth engaging other fighters, trying to take out capital ship components. In a word it would be Glorious. That is the expansion I would happily pay for. Not this Mustafar crap.
BTW--the devs are playing with a "player controlled capital ship". From what I have been able to gather, it will be strictly that--something you can control. It won't be built by Shipwrights. It won't be built out by a player. In fact, I don't think it will show up on your datapad. Merely an instance of a capital ship for you to play with for awhile. You can read more in the Pilot forum, as there is a thread that discusses the concept.
Personally, I'm not big on the idea of a players having capital ships. I do like the idea of capital ships being part of the game, and maybe something we can interact with. However, it should be under the control of AI, not players.
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