Shipwright Archive
Thread: Why do we kill our own market
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Spartan117A
Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:34 am
#1
Just trying to understand why we SW's as a
Profession cannot stick together. I understand
the point is to have fun, but all the other
crafting professions stay pretty much within
the same price range except for us.
we use the most resources to craft a item,
the most time because of mo factory support
yet everyday i see SW selling tier4 ships for 100k
or less.
would like to see us pull together as a profession.
i tried talking to 2 seperate SW about this subject
and they just blew up in my face in game
Profession cannot stick together. I understand
the point is to have fun, but all the other
crafting professions stay pretty much within
the same price range except for us.
we use the most resources to craft a item,
the most time because of mo factory support
yet everyday i see SW selling tier4 ships for 100k
or less.
would like to see us pull together as a profession.
i tried talking to 2 seperate SW about this subject
and they just blew up in my face in game
Cerius101
Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:55 am
#2
I think that undercutting in SW is rife because of the following factors:-
1) Massive resource cost forces Shipwrights to try and quickly recoup outlay
2) Market prices have still not stabalized after the initial JTL burst
3) The JTL market has reduced considerably, causing more competition
1) Massive resource cost forces Shipwrights to try and quickly recoup outlay
2) Market prices have still not stabalized after the initial JTL burst
3) The JTL market has reduced considerably, causing more competition
TomoRainer
Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:06 am
#3
And a lot of the people selling chassis cheaply don't really care about the money. So long as they're not losing it, anyway. The thought process goes, they're mining these resources at a fraction of a cpu each, so selling the chassis at 3 or 2 or even 1 cpu is still turning a profit and giving all those pilots a great bargain.
It's a different set of priorities, so making a case from a profit-centric perspective isn't going to change anybody's mind. And since it only takes a couple people to influence everyone else to drop their chassis prices as well, there isn't much to be done about it.
Components are an entirely different matter, however, since the difficulty and expense in creating the best ones is several times higher than dealing with chassis. This tends to discourage undercutting and results in a pretty profitable market if you're able to establish yourself.
It's a different set of priorities, so making a case from a profit-centric perspective isn't going to change anybody's mind. And since it only takes a couple people to influence everyone else to drop their chassis prices as well, there isn't much to be done about it.
Components are an entirely different matter, however, since the difficulty and expense in creating the best ones is several times higher than dealing with chassis. This tends to discourage undercutting and results in a pretty profitable market if you're able to establish yourself.
neutrineaux
Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:56 am
#4
there will always be those who just play for grins, and those who want to have a profitable business, as well as shades of gray in between. plus, everyone's personal definition of a "reasonable return on investment" is different. so you will never get everyone to cooperate in pricing. but, as it turns out, it is not a problem for shipwright...
you can harvest good/uber resources for the same cost as mediocre ones, and if you are just in it for grins, selling chassis for 2-3 cpu still turns a profit, and does not take much time to do. you will not find a lot of vendors with tons of cheap chassis, as well as a full selection of high quality components. at least i have not seen many of these. my theory is that they cannot afford to do both.
i have had a couple of people tell me i was pricing way too high. they often refer to shipwright "x" as providing the same item more cheaply. so far, i have always had a quality advantage when i checked into it more closely, so that has been a relief. but there is sure to be more than one shipwright out there who is as good or better, and cheaper, too. and i have a hard time keeping up with demand, which indicates that my cost is not too far out of line with the market.
so i do not worry about it. i cannot keep the vendor full with the time i want to craft as it is. if you use basic economics, i should actually raise my prices, which are 13-20 cpu for everything but chassis. but i am satisfied with my income, and i produce good quality stuff, so i am not raising prices for now. heck, i am a pilot, too. so i want to cut the pilot crowd some slack, lol.
my advice: buy good quality chassis from chassis dealers, and resell them at a modest markup to conserve your resources. harvest the good stuff when it spawns. build good quality products and keep your vendor stocked. if you cannot build enough of everything, specialize in one item or a few itmes, like shields or reactors, where shipwright has a good chance of besting loot. advertise.
and do not worry about low ball sellers. if your stuff is not selling, it is either not good quality,too expensive, or you are not advertising (or some combination).there is demand for quality crafted components. and people are willing to pay for them.
neut
Corsican_Ogre
Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:45 am
#5
The SW market has gotten to the point the only steady sellers are ammo and paint kits.
I have a few very loyal customers who are going to try to get every squadron done and so keep coming back to me for there new ships each time.
Basically I don't even make ships at this point unless its custom job The Problem is SW even more then other crafting professions is totally loot driven. I am paying more for looted parts then I make selling crafted parts.
Kalano
Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:00 pm
#6
To truely solve the problem the devs have to step in and change a few things. they need to make loot not so great and usable compaired to crafted items. Players are only compencating for the way the game is set up, so yes, we don't sell for a lot of profite do to the lack of support SW has gotten from the dev team.
the only lootable armor is bounty hunter armor which i heard isn't all the greatest, it is rare and is used in making even rarer armor. So, it isn't a market hurter to armorsmiths. And armor is used up fast and is protection in battle so it is a hot commodity.
the only weapons that are loot drops are really crappy statsand are only valuable if they got a dot damage, which are rare. so, that isn't a problem in the weaponsmith market and weapons wear out and you need variety to keep up with the different mob resists and different professions. they are also a hot commodity.
Now for SW, we are fighting a battle of which part is better, the reversed loot part or thecrafted part. the devs are the ones that struck us with a poor economy. they need to make the stuff we craft a hot commodity, not second rated parts to the RE loot drops.
Couple of changes that would truely change everything and we would have a boost in our economy.
1) great reduction in the amount of resources used in crafting items. If chassies were a lot less, it would make newb pilots able to afford low level ships a lot easier.
2) make the crafted parts more competitive to loot parts. Way to many loot parts pass the crafted max stats.
3) No specail loot to be put into crafted parts, like weapons and armor have.
4) Reduce 10% or more mass off of all crafted parts. You want a higher level part, then crafters would make a lot more viable part if the mass was a lot less.
5) Stop listening to pilots complain how much things cost. Heck, they make freakin' bank in space. I sure know i do, that is how i am supporting my SW grind.
Polku
Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:22 pm
#7
I just focused on components, i can't compete with the chassis prices. Seen Chassis for about 0.5cpu, i mine all my suff myself, but its mostly very good for some type of component, so i don't waste it on chassis. Still have some chassis from my Grind wich i sell at 4cpu, most of them are already sold. I often tell my customers to check for chassis on some other vendors and just by my components, as many said my prices (4cpu) were much to high.
Subcriminal
Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:42 pm
#8
People, people.. this is all very simple.
Rule # 1: if you want to make money being a SW DON'T SELL CHASSIS. Can we bury this dead horse instead of kicking it some more? If I have to tell anyone WHY this is, you obviosuly haven't done any research before jumping into a BAD business venture. Do your homework.
Rule # 2: there is a market for high-end ship components. Things will sell so fast you can't stay restocked. Now be honest with yourself. Do you have the resources to get into the high-end ship parts market? If your answer is no, don't waste your time. People are seeking out quality, and if you don't make the best (or VERY VERY close to it) your sales will slump.
I would also like to add that the orginal poster probably doesn't know about the cut-throat undercutting that runs rampant with professions like tailor, droid engineer and architect. Man if you wanna see some undercutting stories, go read the Architect forums. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot... SW's only have to worry about undercutting when it comes to selling chassis. All else is golden if you know what you're doing.
Thunderbyte
Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:30 am
#9
Subcriminal wrote:
People, people.. this is all very simple.
Rule # 1: if you want to make money being a SW DON'T SELL CHASSIS. Can we bury this dead horse instead of kicking it some more? If I have to tell anyone WHY this is, you obviosuly haven't done any research before jumping into a BAD business venture. Do your homework.
Rule # 2: there is a market for high-end ship components. Things will sell so fast you can't stay restocked. Now be honest with yourself. Do you have the resources to get into the high-end ship parts market? If your answer is no, don't waste your time. People are seeking out quality, and if you don't make the best (or VERY VERY close to it) your sales will slump.
I would also like to add that the orginal poster probably doesn't know about the cut-throat undercutting that runs rampant with professions like tailor, droid engineer and architect. Man if you wanna see some undercutting stories, go read the Architect forums. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot... SW's only have to worry about undercutting when it comes to selling chassis. All else is golden if you know what you're doing.
I agree completely, I've been playing this game since day 2 and crafting for nearly as long, always focusing on making the very best product that I could. If you take the time (and boy does it take time) to get high quality resources, and craft high quality stuff then you'll never have to worry about business, unless you don't advertise or anything. I play a consumer as well as a crafter and I'm ALWAYS looking for better stuff.
And a word about reverse enginineering (actually a few sentences 
):
):I believe that REing brings a dynamic to this game that every other MMO out there lacks, and when looked at the right way adds an incredible immersion factor to the game. I always believed that the very best of something should be very hard to get, and reverse engineering fits that idea. I admit that getting the best resources takes alot of time and patience, and that it feels like a slap in the face when you're craft cannot compete with a looted item......But on the other hand that looted item probably took more hours to find than the owner would like to admit, and the shipwright is still key to making ships the best they can possibly be.
I think REing is a great way to bring the players that find and use these parts into the process of making thier ships great. The hard work for them doesn't have to be finding the best SW to craft the parts, the hard work is getting out there and looting which is what they'd rather be doing anyways. As a shipwright and as a pilot, as well as a crafter and consumer, I love this system.
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