Shipwright Archive
Thread: Chassis? We don't need no stinking Chassis'!
Nope. I disagree. All of the new schemas were in our datapad when teh CU went in. All we were waiting for was the resources. Unless you actually go and do the quests yourself, then you can take a pass on the expansion and not miss anything. Yes, other professions got less then we did (DE, Architect, Entertainer etc). Face it, only another SW would get excited over an amazing Mk 3 Mining Laser. The ships are not where the money is, bit it is what turns heads.
Face it, unless we do all the quests ourselves we will never have the coolest ships. Its like the guys on American Chopper driving a Honda
And FYI, I have already received my Y-8 deed, am lining up my Arc-170, and have started up on my Grievous quest. The Jedi Fighter will prove to be more difficult...
Message Edited by Ashet on 05-06-2005 11:20 AM
I also disagree.
I take great pride in the chassis I make, using the best resources I can find, and beam with pride when a player outfits it with the best components and kicks some arse with it!
Now the best chassis in the game is NOT makeable by me, and that really sticks in my craw.
I didnot become a master shipwright just to make components and RE dropped components.
Iether this is a Player based economy or its isnt. There is no inbetweens here. This is going to cramp my sales greatly and that does NOT please me.
MobiousVs1 wrote:
I have to say its all very well having these new ships but many of us crafters are just that. I cant go and fight stuff for a flipping deed!! We SHOULD be able to make them. It is penalising the crafters AGAIN!!
What would be the point of making the ship if you have to be quest-certified to fly it? And what's wrong with making people have to fight on the ground in order to complete the quest for it? My question is what's stopping you from hiring a group of people (or just asking if you're in a guild or have friends) to go with you to complete the quest?
When an item requires a quest and a crafter, most people don't really complain that they need to have it crafted. They just find a crafter and have it made. But when the situation is reversed and a normally crafted item requires combat we never hear the end of it from crafters. And it's not like this is the first time this has happened either, take for example RIS armor. You have to go hunt the components, which does require combat. Personally, I haven't heard too many arguments from armorsmiths over this (except maybe the low drop rates). Same thing with Firesprays, you have to go to space and kill stuff, then RE it. Once again, the only real complaint has been the low drop rate of the disks.
These new ships are supposed to be rare, personally I think they should make it even harder to get them, so that only the serious players (not just the power gamers, but poeple who are serious about the game) are able to get them.
Thunderbyte wrote:
These new ships are supposed to be rare, personally I think they should make it even harder to get them, so that only the serious players (not just the power gamers, but poeple who are serious about the game) are able to get them.
Every PvP player will want them. Highest YPR stats and good mass.
Lionsworth wrote:
You wanna talk about the few new ones us SW's DID get? Big Whoop! They are ships no combat character would really want.
Thunderbyte wrote:
silversaber wrote:
Thunderbyte wrote:
These new ships are supposed to be rare, personally I think they should make it even harder to get them, so that only the serious players (not just the power gamers, but poeple who are serious about the game) are able to get them.
Rare..kinda like Jedi?
There is NO way they can make anything worthwhile rare in this game. If its the best, then everyone that wants it will find a way to get it with the least amount of effort.
So what is your definition or Rare? Something you see once a day? once a week? only know maybe 1-2 people who have it? In my opinion, Firesprays are rare, RIS armor is rare, Mandelorian armor is rare. At least rare enough.
In your opinion.
I don't think these rare items have much of an impact on the economy of this game, but then again I wouldn't ever pretend to fully understand the dynamics of a MMORPG economy.
They have no impact, because rare or not, they STILL require a crafters to make them! The craftersare NOT cut out of the loop! Thus they have NO bearing on this discussion.
It is because it is rare that makes it worthwhile.
Note: My comments are the ones in green
More opinion. Rare makes it worthwhile for someplayers, but the driveing force for most players I know is effectivemess.
Secondly, we are NOT complaining that it takes combat to get the ships (at least not all of us), we are complaining that all ofthe best ships in RotW is just given away by quest, screwing the sales of the Shipwrights that cannot make anything that can compete with them.
The 'best' is different for each player.
Correct.
Having said that, there are some great ships to be had by quest with this expansion.
Thats the problem. Great ships to be directlyhad by quest, not from a crafter. This is the first time this has happened in game, and if this is a forshadow of all thenew content in the game, then kiss this Player Based Economy goodbye.
There's more to this issue then just economics though, there's also a 'fun factor' here, and do keep in mind that Shipwrights only represent a small fraction over the whole player base.
Its this type of thinking that WILL kill off the Player Economy. Think about this for a second. Every worth while item in the game (with very veryfew exceptions), up until now, was made by a crafter. Sure, the components and limited useschematics had to be looted to make the item and were very rare, but is STILL required the crafter to make it. They did this because this is a "Player" Based Economy. The "Player" in this type of economy arethe Crafters. Cut out the crafters, and this is no longer the case.
If we expand on your concept, why dont we just have EVERYTHING worthwhile drop directly off the mobs or be quest rewards. Get rid of the limited use schematics and components, just give it fully made to the players. Why not? The crafters are just a very small portion of the player base, and this would make it better for the majority. Lets get rid of them pesky, greedy crafters altogether.
Iether the Crafters a part of the economy, or they are not. Start cutting them out like they are with the new ships, then you might as well cut out the Shipwright profession out the game altogether
So you have these new ships, some of them are player craftable
Very few are player craftable, and are just rehashes of current craft we can make and primarily just a cosmetic difference from the old craft. Big whoop.
, and some of them are questable.
ALL of the new and unique carft are quest rewards. Every singleone of them. There is not ONE new and unique craft for the Shipwrights to make.
The more 'rare' ones are one-time questable.That way, they have some chance at remaining rare.
Irrelevant.
A bonus to that is that it's more fun to earn your ship, as opposed to dropping a million or so credits on someones vendor for a deed (and you know a million creds isn't that hard to come by for an average player).
A bonus and funfor the non-crafter, a death to the business of the players who play the game for the crafting aspect.
Now you say shipwrights get screwed 'cause they didn't get to craft those ships. Don't forget that there are new ships that you can craft.
New? Hah! Just the same old stuff we are making already, with a few cosmetic differences. Again, I say big whoop!
I just fail to see how anybody is really going to hurt from this expansion, and I am a shipwright too.
Let me guess, your primarily a combat char that dabbles with your Shipwright so as that you can make and RE the components you need without having to deal with a pure crafter. Those that just dabble in crafting wont be hurt, but those that are dedicated Crafters and play this game for that aspect will be hurt greatly.
Iether this is a player based economy or its a quest/drop based economy. Pick one.
I don't see where it has to be one or the other. An economy of a game of this magnitude just isn't as simple as that. And the argument represented in this thread doesn't really argue for one or the other.
Actually the games economy if VERY shakey right now. The majority of player that have left because of the CU were crafters. The bypassing of the loot items from the Player based Economyin RotW just hurtsit all the more and is NOT making itbetter.
Message Edited by silversaber on 05-07-2005 10:11 AM
Note: My comments are the ones in green
silversaber wrote:
Thunderbyte wrote:
These new ships are supposed to be rare, personally I think they should make it even harder to get them, so that only the serious players (not just the power gamers, but poeple who are serious about the game) are able to get them.
Rare..kinda like Jedi?
There is NO way they can make anything worthwhile rare in this game. If its the best, then everyone that wants it will find a way to get it with the least amount of effort.
So what is your definition or Rare? Something you see once a day? once a week? only know maybe 1-2 people who have it? In my opinion, Firesprays are rare, RIS armor is rare, Mandelorian armor is rare. At least rare enough. I don't think these rare items have much of an impact on the economy of this game, but then again I wouldn't ever pretend to fully understand the dynamics of a MMORPG economy. It is because it is rare that makes it worthwhile.
Secondly, we are NOT complaining that it takes combat to get the ships (at least not all of us), we are complaining that all ofthe best ships in RotW is just given away by quest, screwing the sales of the Shipwrights that cannot make anything that can compete with them.
The 'best' is different for each player. Having said that, there are some great ships to be had by quest with this expansion. There's more to this issue then just economics though, there's also a 'fun factor' here, and do keep in mind that Shipwrights only represent a small fraction over the whole player base. So you have these new ships, some of them are player craftable, and some of them are questable. The more 'rare' ones are one-time questable. That way, they have some chance at remaining rare. A bonus to that is that it's more fun to earn your ship, as opposed to dropping a million or so credits on someones vendor for a deed (and you know a million creds isn't that hard to come by for an average player).
Now you say shipwrights get screwed 'cause they didn't get to craft those ships. Don't forget that there are new ships that you can craft. I just fail to see how anybody is really going to hurt from this expansion, and I am a shipwright too.
Iether this is a player based economy or its a quest/drop based economy. Pick one.
I don't see where it has to be one or the other. An economy of a game of this magnitude just isn't as simple as that. And the argument represented in this thread doesn't really argue for one or the other.
silversaber wrote:
Thunderbyte wrote:
I just fail to see how anybody is really going to hurt from this expansion, and I am a shipwright too.
Let me guess, your primarily a combat char that dabbles with your Shipwright so as that you can make and RE the components you need without having to deal with a pure crafter. Those that just dabble in crafting wont be hurt, but those that are dedicated Crafters and play this game for that aspect will be hurt greatly.
Actually, you are mistaken. I'm primarily a crafter, since the servers went live. If it seems like I have little sympathy for crafters, it is because I am a gamer, and I (unlike many others I see on these forums) like a challenge. Iwill admit, I probably do spend more time RE'ing components then actually crafting, but if you saw the amount of RE'ing I do you wouldn't call me a dabbler.
As far as the rest of your response goes, this whole thread is a matter of opinion, mine included. I don't think the argument in this thread even touches the pros and cons of this system vs. the economy of the game. Like I said before, I know enough about game economics to know that I don't know enough. There's a reason they write books on the issue (and that is a fact). It's not a black or white thing either, there's never a true crafter economy, nore is there ever really a true quest/mission based economy. It's always a mix, even with this game. It has to be, otherwise where would the combat people get thier money to buy from you crafters, or where would the crafters get the moneyto buy from the miners or scouts (or however you get your resources). That's why there are money sinks in the game, like house/harvester decay, like cloning insurance, like skill training. It's a very complicated system, and I don't think many people bother to think about that when they want to argue about game economics.
silversaber wrote:So you have these new ships, some of them are player craftableVery few are player craftable, and are just rehashes of current craft we can make and primarily just a cosmetic difference from the old craft. Big whoop.
Actually, this isn't quite accurate. The new ships that we can craft look almost identical to their pre-ROTW counterparts, but are vastly different in capability/effectiveness. These will probably be the new primary ships for PvP because of their high maneuverability and reasonably high mass. Likewise, newbie pilots (with enough cash) can use one of these all the way up the piloting track if they want, though many will probably still want to fly some of their other favorite ship designs, such as X-Wings.
Since these ships only come from us, we can make money off of this. Since the ships are so effective, it'll probably significantly damage our sales of other chassis. So as to whether our money-making will go up or down overall, I'm not sure. A lot may depend on how much the average SW charges for these new ships.. Since they take the same amount of material as a Tier-3 chassis, plus 2k in asteroid resources (which of course are harder to get and will command a high market value due to the NPC buying prices), we can justify rather high prices on these chassis. If they prove to be very popular, which they probably will, that justifies even higher prices (supply and demand).
Since they split the new chassis this way, it's hard to say whether these new Tier-0 ships will actually sell that well, with others available via quests. We simply don't have enough information this early on to know how it'll affect us. Though clearly we'd be in much better shape if we could craft all of it.
One thing I find amusing is that now that ROTW is out, everyone's complaining about the expectation that the bottom will fall out of the chassis market because of these new ships. Up until a few days ago, everyone was complaining that it already had, mostly because of lowballers.