Shipwright Archive
Thread: Master Whipwright, Master WS, TKM- nerfed post CU, why no outcry?
Message Edited by Lotifo on 04-05-2005 08:28 PM
Looks like its goodbye to Master Sword and most of the trees to get back the 14 points needed for the 1h tree.
IIscandar wrote:
I'll check into it. PM me, if you don't hear something in a couple of days.
Thank you very much for listening. My thoughts were that the original intent of the CU to limit triple combat masteries should not apply to 2crafting masteries and an elite combat profession such as TKM , swordsman or whatever. After all, how could a TKM/master 2 crafter be unbalancing? I can;t even heal myself.
It does add to the flavor of one's character though . I think of my template as a futuristic Hattori Hanzo, Weaponsmith, Shipwright (Ships ARE weapons in a sense) but if I had to defend myself form lawlessness then the mere title should give NPCs pause... or not 
Oh, if you are a 2 crafter/ elite combat profession too please let your voice be heard.
Chickenbone wrote:
Yea, I don't like that extra requirement that they added. My current template is Master SW, Master Swordsman, Merchant 0-0-0-3, Novice Medic, Artisan 4-0-4-4 with 3 SP left. I asked about this on the CU thread and the only answer I got from another player was: drop novice medic. Bah!
lol
Right now the CU threads are a battlebetween whiners and cheerleaders, so careful is needed when asking things there
Well, we still have to see how they tweak medics, but as far as i tested them, a novice medic is not going to help you like it does now... just my opinion ofcourse! 
Qualdrin Mekanos
Marsirion wrote:
Thank you very much for listening. My thoughts were that the original intent of the CU to limit triple combat masteries should not apply to 2crafting masteries and an elite combat profession such as TKM , swordsman or whatever. After all, how could a TKM/master 2 crafter be unbalancing? I can;t even heal myself.
It does add to the flavor of one's character though . I think of my template as a futuristic Hattori Hanzo, Weaponsmith, Shipwright (Ships ARE weapons in a sense) but if I had to defend myself form lawlessness then the mere title should give NPCs pause... or not
Oh, if you are a 2 crafter/ elite combat profession too please let your voice be heard.
Lets see I got Master Artisan and Master Shipwright..Almost have Master Rifleman(+4000 marksman) and Novice scout.
After the CU i'll have to drop novice scout to pick up the rest of the required marksman(4004)
The way I see it I drop Master Artisan and the tailoring skills tree to pickup scout (ie: I supply an armour smith hides). Since apprenctice points seem to have gone out the window, Ithen boost up back to master Artisan when I need to craft more Master art stuff.
Not too worried about the healing part though cuz they're brining in no med skill required bandaids.
Joint_Maker wrote:
Chickenbone wrote:
Yea, I don't like that extra requirement that they added. My current template is Master SW, Master Swordsman, Merchant 0-0-0-3, Novice Medic, Artisan 4-0-4-4 with 3 SP left. I asked about this on the CU thread and the only answer I got from another player was: drop novice medic. Bah!
lol
Right now the CU threads are a battlebetween whiners and cheerleaders, so careful is needed when asking things there
Well, we still have to see how they tweak medics, but as far as i tested them, a novice medic is not going to help you like it does now... just my opinion ofcourse!
Well, I've been on TC CU since it first came out and I am still not convinced at this point that its the way to go.
good points:
1. Medic system.
2. No buffs needed anymore so you can go from a naked newb to a TKA novice in 6-8 hours as I did in the TC 2 days ago before they released the patch to enable elite trainers.
Bad points:
1. Grouping may kill mobs faster but you do not get that much xp in return (less than 5% more) no matter how high the group level is. Today we were a level 56 group killing level 57 mission mobs in tattooine and I was a level 15 (individual) TKAnovicegetting about 1.3k per mob killed. In contrast, the group leader was a lvl 45 fencer 4433 and was geting 3.4k per mob kill. That is a lot of mobs. Admittedly this is still being tweaked.
2. Once a group member leaves the mission difficulty becomes higher and we sometimes had to abort missions as they would be impossible for us i.e we could not do lvl 58 and above anymore as we were reduced to a lvl 55. You can extrapolate on that.
3. All static "dungeons" like squill cave, tusken fort etc and mission areas like Jaba's. Imp theme park, Dantooine theme park etc.would now have static lvl mobs (35-45 for the squill cave for example).
That means for lvl 45 and above these places will give no experience or very little but it does not mean that you can breeaze throught it. Other than carbineers,pikemen, CM who have crowd control or crowd damage, you still can get mobbed and take full damage and die within 10 seconds and yet not get 1 skill point because the mobs conned grey to you. This limits the areas you can go to in my opinion even as a master template. Compare that to master TKA at the present who can go through the squill cave and fort tusken and still get decent xp and nice loot (crystals).
These are just examples and just proves that this elaborate system called the CU still needs a lot of tweaking. Unfortunately they are trying to turn it into EQ2 when they should've done it more as SWG2- an improved version of the current system.
How is this related to the topic? In TC I am not a TKM yet, indeed unless they tweek the xp upward I dont expect to be one until weeks of play from now even grouped with lvl 50 and up.
TKM has 2 extra moves from the apart from the ones (lunge, melee hit, melee strike, armor break, flurry) unarmed/swords tree: dizzy attack and combo attack. There is no way to damage multiple enemies, there is no crowd control. To be effective one has to go all the way to master to get the benefits of unarmed armor (cannot wear regular ones) and avoidance, mitigation so that while you are being attacked en masse you limit damage to yourself while fighting the mobs 1 at a time or have a really good doc all the time.
Post CU, anything below a master combat elite template would mean reduced effective damage, more vulnerability which is more profound due to the lack of crowd control or multiple mob damage.
That is why I am loathe to give up the TK mastery with 2 elite crafter templates as I have now. The CU was supposed to balance the triple elite combat mastery and the devs made no mention of my template.
My concern is that it was just overlooked and can still be remedied ( I have a fewsuggestions on that). If it was not then let the devs say so and let them tell us the rationale why a 2 crafter elite/ 1 combat elite master template would be unbalancing to the CU.
Can you tell me why it would be unbalancing?
Marsirion wrote:
Joint_Maker wrote:
Chickenbone wrote:
Yea, I don't like that extra requirement that they added. My current template is Master SW, Master Swordsman, Merchant 0-0-0-3, Novice Medic, Artisan 4-0-4-4 with 3 SP left. I asked about this on the CU thread and the only answer I got from another player was: drop novice medic. Bah!
lol
Right now the CU threads are a battlebetween whiners and cheerleaders, so careful is needed when asking things there
Well, we still have to see how they tweak medics, but as far as i tested them, a novice medic is not going to help you like it does now... just my opinion ofcourse!
Well, I've been on TC CU since it first came out and I am still not convinced at this point that its the way to go.
good points:
1. Medic system.
2. No buffs needed anymore so you can go from a naked newb to a TKA novice in 6-8 hours as I did in the TC 2 days ago before they released the patch to enable elite trainers.
Bad points:
1. Grouping may kill mobs faster but you do not get that much xp in return (less than 5% more) no matter how high the group level is. Today we were a level 56 group killing level 57 mission mobs in tattooine and I was a level 15 (individual) TKAnovicegetting about 1.3k per mob killed. In contrast, the group leader was a lvl 45 fencer 4433 and was geting 3.4k per mob kill. That is a lot of mobs. Admittedly this is still being tweaked.
2. Once a group member leaves the mission difficulty becomes higher and we sometimes had to abort missions as they would be impossible for us i.e we could not do lvl 58 and above anymore as we were reduced to a lvl 55. You can extrapolate on that.
3. All static "dungeons" like squill cave, tusken fort etc and mission areas like Jaba's. Imp theme park, Dantooine theme park etc.would now have static lvl mobs (35-45 for the squill cave for example).
That means for lvl 45 and above these places will give no experience or very little but it does not mean that you can breeaze throught it. Other than carbineers,pikemen, CM who have crowd control or crowd damage, you still can get mobbed and take full damage and die within 10 seconds and yet not get 1 skill point because the mobs conned grey to you. This limits the areas you can go to in my opinion even as a master template. Compare that to master TKA at the present who can go through the squill cave and fort tusken and still get decent xp and nice loot (crystals).
These are just examples and just proves that this elaborate system called the CU still needs a lot of tweaking. Unfortunately they are trying to turn it into EQ2 when they should've done it more as SWG2- an improved version of the current system.
How is this related to the topic? In TC I am not a TKM yet, indeed unless they tweek the xp upward I dont expect to be one until weeks of play from now even grouped with lvl 50 and up.
TKM has 2 extra moves from the apart from the ones (lunge, melee hit, melee strike, armor break, flurry) unarmed/swords tree: dizzy attack and combo attack. There is no way to damage multiple enemies, there is no crowd control. To be effective one has to go all the way to master to get the benefits of unarmed armor (cannot wear regular ones) and avoidance, mitigation so that while you are being attacked en masse you limit damage to yourself while fighting the mobs 1 at a time or have a really good doc all the time.
Post CU, anything below a master combat elite template would mean reduced effective damage, more vulnerability which is more profound due to the lack of crowd control or multiple mob damage.
That is why I am loathe to give up the TK mastery with 2 elite crafter templates as I have now. The CU was supposed to balance the triple elite combat mastery and the devs made no mention of my template.
My concern is that it was just overlooked and can still be remedied ( I have a fewsuggestions on that). If it was not then let the devs say so and let them tell us the rationale why a 2 crafter elite/ 1 combat elite master template would be unbalancing to the CU.
Can you tell me why it would be unbalancing?
Firstly, and honestly, i think that i dont understand your reply :S
I was saying to chickenbone that novice medic is not really the advantage as it is in live so he could surrender it without any worries.
And about your question of unbalancing... i guess its all about skill points. There was no crafting sp reduction planned (thanks all that's holy for that) as it was for combat proffesions. I think a reduction of skill points requirements for crafting proffesions would be bad in the long therm. And the increase in the combat sp requirements was needed, so very little to do here i'm afraid.
Greets!