Shipwright Archive
Thread: unable to convert SW XP to FS Xp, turn off from the game, we're being FORCED to a diff playstyle!
Eme wrote:There are too many hidden agendas going on with so many here that some of you should be ashamed of yourselves as you do not have the best interests of all players and the game in mind when you argue.
I hope I don't know what you are talking about here Eme. Just what are you suggesting? I'd like to think everyone here has the Shipwright profession's best interests at heart.
We want it to be a rich experience of crafting ships and components for pilots the best we can. Granted at times some threads on this forum lean very heavily toward the interest of shipwrights alone, but that is the nature of a forum dedicated to shipwrights.
One thing I know for sure, no amount of us arguing over this issue is going to make a difference.
Suggestions and ideas do make a difference. Making a case for why you think FS conversion would benefit the shipwright profession is a good start. Try to make the argument with support for FS conversion without taking into account professions other than shipwright. Arguing that FS conversion should be added to the profession seems to benefit the best interest of those seeking to become Jedi. While Jedi is a very popular profession, it does not represent all players either. There are many shipwrights who are just shipwrights and happy about it.
I've heard about an even number of cases for and against this issue. It seems to me that the shipwright community is very divided over this and I hope that everyone involved will consider what is best for the shipwright profession rather than other professions.
I don't think anyone reading threads on this subject can come to any conclusion other than our community is split on this issue and of late has been getting downright nippy at each other over it.
I do wish that the question we have asked for a long time would finally be answered, are we going to one day get this conversion or are we not. I think we'd all like to know the answer.
Hopefully one day we will know for sure, until then we can be sure our thoughts are being heard.
Shadow-Walker wrote:
Aserhe wrote:
Shadow-Walker wrote:
ok. If they allowed SW xp to be converted to FS then every single player would be MSW becuase the exp is so easy to grind due to making ships.
1. the bazaar would be full of 1k ships of each level. (up to POB)
2. every desent SW would go out of buisnees due to ^^....
That is why they are not doing this, and so right to.
You're so wrong in this, a shipwright is like an Architect, we use tons of resources to get tons of xp, and everyone would be going shipwright? I don't think so, there's too much variety in resources and too much of each resource needed to actually be getting the XP juice out of it.
ok lets put it this way...
what other crafting profession can you get from novice to master in 30 mins...... (do a search on board for this thread).
if you look at the grind faq for tother proffs you will see that they have to make 1000's of parts to get to master, if they want to level faster they need to run factory crates so theycan make more complicated parts. (like DE, archi, weaponsmith.....)
SW max exp part (being ships)do not use any other addition parts, just pure resources. these can be purchased for next to nothing. So yes most players would choose SW to grind if they could convert to FS.
Message Edited by Shadow-Walker on 11-01-2005 05:04 PM
This argument (highlighted in green)keeps getting thrown out, so I'm going to do the math for a third time:
One line of FS crafting requires 1.225 million FS experimentation. Four lines would be 4.9 million FS crafting xp, +50K FS crafting xp for the novice box for a total of 4.95 million FS crafting xp.
Each resource point in SW gives 0.25 xp. So, a master level ship gives 150K resources x0.25 xp= 37,500 shipwright xp.
Assuming the same 35 to 1 exchange rate that Architects have, each master level ship gives 37,500 xp/35 = 1,071.43 FS crafting xp
4.95 million FS crafting xp divided by 1,071.43 = 4,620 (rounded up) master level ship chassis to complete all four FS crafting branches (and mind you, even after all this you still haven't unlocked).
4,620 master level ships x 150K resources each = 693,000,000 resources
If you ground the chassis out in practice mode the resources would be 693,000,000 x .95 = 658,350,000 resources. If you bought the resources at 2 cpu, that would be nearly 1.32 billion credits.
How many players on each server have 658,350,000 resources just lying around? One, maybe two. So, because one or two players (who probably already have a Jedi character anyways) might be able to grind out the four FS crafting branches in shipwright, the remaining shipwrights are forced to change their templates if they want FS crafting.
People, there's no reason why shipwrights shouldn't be able to trade in their xp for FS crafting xp. Why would anyone use nearly 660 million resources to get just four FS branches, which won't even be anyuse to them in combat? The argument that shipwright will become the FOTM grinding profession just doesn't hold up under the math.
Slim Vargo, Corbantis
BlkHwkDwn wrote:
open another crafting prof and grind fs there
BlkHwkDwn wrote:
Slysix wrote:
How about a reduced skill point usage for shipwrights then?
They're not even considered advanced artisans. (I really want my yellow hammer Icon)
And some of the 63 skill points (not including the artisan stuff) that is used to attain mastershippy can be applied to something else that can contribute to FS conversion.
They are not going to reduce skill points, for the last time and in simple words: ALL THINGS IN JTL ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH FS OR JEDI!
A large group of people agree with the devs on this, it will never be changed as the devs clear position is they want less jedi and slower advancement, not mroe jedi and more ways to get it.
If you want to go FS two choices, pick up another crafting prof, or drop shipwright and leave it to those who want like it the way it is.
It's just a guess, but I'd say more than 90% of these people are not SW's, so why should they have any say in our profession? We are a crafting profession just like Chef, WS, AS, etc. There is absolutely no reason why we cannot trade in SW XP for FS XP.
#1 Reason why SW's should have the ability over ANY other crafting profession: A chef gets their Food Assemby and Food Experimentation and now they have enhancements for everything they make under the Chef skill set. We, on the other hand, need Chassis, Engine, and Weapons Systems Experimentation tapes (no assembly!) and none of these enhance crafting of Reactors, Shields,Boosters, Tractor Beams, Cargo Holds, etc.
Basically if you can get xp in something, you should be able to convert it at the village - and that goes for Jedi xp too.
IIscandar wrote:
Making a case for why you think FS conversion would benefit the shipwright profession is a good start.
Starstrider6 wrote:
IIscandar wrote:
Making a case for why you think FS conversion would benefit the shipwright profession is a good start.
The I shall strive to do just that.
The Case for Shipwright Equality
Since the launch of Jump to Lightspeed (JtL) over a year ago, there has been a debate over the issue of Shipwrights not being able to convert the experience points (XP) they receive into Force-Sensitive experience points (FS) in the Crafting Mastery trees.
Simply stated, this puts Shipwrights at a disadvantage to other crafting professions. Instead of being able to work their chosen craft (Shipwright) and reap the benefits of the XP gained from that work, a player needs to have a second crafting profession, *or* they need to drop their chosen profession entirely, gain or "grind" XP for conversion, and then retrain themselves in the Shipwright profession.
I'll cover what I perceive as the primary arguments against allowing the conversion and give my opinion of why I feel they are invalid.
1. The Devs listened to the comments from the JtL Beta testers, and those testers wanted the space game and the ground game to be completely separate.
That may have been the prevailing attitude at the time, but it has been over a year since JtL was released and the game has undergone massive changes. When JtL was in beta there was no Combat Upgrade, there was no Kashyyyk, there was no Mustafar. There were no Shipwright-specific Clothing Attachments (CA's). All of those things have been implemented *after* the release of JtL, and the sweeping changes and additions to the game have impacted the Shipwright profession in both postive (CA's, Elite POB components, etc.) and negative (non-craftable, highly desirable ship chassis) ways.
In addition, the short-sighted idea to require Shipwright to use Skill Points (SP) instead of being a "free" Profession like Pilot and Politician leave Shipwright's hampered by the fact that Shipwright is the only profession that requires SP that cannot be converted into FS XP. The sad irony here is that a "free" skill like Politican XP - that requires no resources,norcredits - can be converted for FS XP, while Shipwright cannot. In addition, Shipwright remains the only profession (other than Pilot) which cannot gain FS XP through the practice of their chosen profession.
2. If Shipwright XP could be converted, "everyone" would be doing it.
This is truly one of the most short-sighted and ignorant arguments against allowing conversion. It has been demonstrated that if Shipwright's were allowed to convert XP at the same rate as Architects (35:1) it would take approximately630 million resources. These numbers are cost and time-prohibitive, as you would have to either pay for the resources orgather them yourself with harvesters. The resource numbers alone would deter players from attempting to use the Shipwright profession as the "fast track" to Jedi.
3. The market would be flooded with cheap, low quality chassis.
This argument has two major failings. First, if a player was trying to get as much XP as possible for conversion, they would be crafting in practice mode for the extra XP gained. Second, if they were trying to sell cheap chassis in an attempt to recoup some of their outlay for resources (at a cost of at least 630 million credits), the length of time since the release of JtL has provided ample time for players to become knowledgable about what is and is not a quality piece of work. "Grinders" dumping substandard parts onto the market would be paying to list items that would more often than not never be purchased.
So I advocate allowing Shipwright XP to be converted. It has been a long time since JtL was released, and the game has evolved a great deal since that time, and the space/ground game(s) have become more integrated with quests that have both ground and interstellar components to them. Ground-based missions give space-based loot, and space missions give components used by Smugglers. With the blurring of the line between the space and ground games, and the fact that Shipwrights remain the only profession that requires SP, it is past time to end the inequity where Shipwrights cannot convert XP into FS XP by crafting in the profession they have chosen, and love to play.
A change to allow XP conversion would benefit the Shipwright community as it would give those players natural access to the Crafting Master lines, and would lead to better chassis and components as Shipwrights gain the FS lines, by simply practicing their craft.
This is nice argument, but you forgot one major issue. Out of the three (3) SEA's made available for us to improve our crafted parts, these SEA's do not cover Boosters, Reactors, DI's, Tractor Beams, Cargo Holds,etc. I don't know about you, but between the sub-component and the actual piece, I have at least onecritical failure out every 3 I make, whether it's a sub-component or the actual part. My only way of resolving this is to become Force Sensitive. Since I'm Master Smuggler,I have to remove Smuggler and become a duel craftingmastery template which floods the market with additional items and hurts the economy, not to mention, makes me do something I don't want to do.
Zodiac-B wrote:
This is nice argument, but you forgot one major issue. Out of the three (3) SEA's made available for us to improve our crafted parts, these SEA's do not cover Boosters, Reactors, DI's, Tractor Beams, Cargo Holds,etc. I don't know about you, but between the sub-component and the actual piece, I have at least onecritical failure out every 3 I make, whether it's a sub-component or the actual part. My only way of resolving this is to become Force Sensitive. Since I'm Master Smuggler,I have to remove Smuggler and become a duel craftingmastery template which floods the market with additional items and hurts the economy, not to mention, makes me do something I don't want to do.
This is the reason Shipwrights need to be on equal footing with other crafting professions, and why I said:
"A change to allow XP conversion would benefit the Shipwright community as it would give those players natural access to the Crafting Master lines, and would lead to better chassis and components as Shipwrights gain the FS lines, by simply practicing their craft."
Instead of having to "get" Force-Sensitive and get the FS Crafting lines, and *then* becomea Shipwright, or be forced to overhaul your template, it's time that Shipwrights were given the ability to gain FS XP by practicing their chosen craft. I didn't make it a point of my argument, because being able to convert Shipwright XP would bring about a natural solution to your problem.
You chose Shipwright *and* Smuggler? You're a glutton for punishment aren't you? 
Starstrider6 wrote:
Zodiac-B wrote:
This is nice argument, but you forgot one major issue. Out of the three (3) SEA's made available for us to improve our crafted parts, these SEA's do not cover Boosters, Reactors, DI's, Tractor Beams, Cargo Holds,etc. I don't know about you, but between the sub-component and the actual piece, I have at least onecritical failure out every 3 I make, whether it's a sub-component or the actual part. My only way of resolving this is to become Force Sensitive. Since I'm Master Smuggler,I have to remove Smuggler and become a duel craftingmastery template which floods the market with additional items and hurts the economy, not to mention, makes me do something I don't want to do.
This is the reason Shipwrights need to be on equal footing with other crafting professions, and why I said:
"A change to allow XP conversion would benefit the Shipwright community as it would give those players natural access to the Crafting Master lines, and would lead to better chassis and components as Shipwrights gain the FS lines, by simply practicing their craft."
Instead of having to "get" Force-Sensitive and get the FS Crafting lines, and *then* becomea Shipwright, or be forced to overhaul your template, it's time that Shipwrights were given the ability to gain FS XP by practicing their chosen craft. I didn't make it a point of my argument, because being able to convert Shipwright XP would bring about a natural solution to your problem.
You chose Shipwright *and* Smuggler? You're a glutton for punishment aren't you?
Starstrider6 wrote:
IIscandar wrote:
Making a case for why you think FS conversion would benefit the shipwright profession is a good start.
The I shall strive to do just that.
The Case for Shipwright Equality
Since the launch of Jump to Lightspeed (JtL) over a year ago, there has been a debate over the issue of Shipwrights not being able to convert the experience points (XP) they receive into Force-Sensitive experience points (FS) in the Crafting Mastery trees.
Simply stated, this puts Shipwrights at a disadvantage to other crafting professions. Instead of being able to work their chosen craft (Shipwright) and reap the benefits of the XP gained from that work, a player needs to have a second crafting profession, *or* they need to drop their chosen profession entirely, gain or "grind" XP for conversion, and then retrain themselves in the Shipwright profession.
I'll cover what I perceive as the primary arguments against allowing the conversion and give my opinion of why I feel they are invalid.
1. The Devs listened to the comments from the JtL Beta testers, and those testers wanted the space game and the ground game to be completely separate.
That may have been the prevailing attitude at the time, but it has been over a year since JtL was released and the game has undergone massive changes. When JtL was in beta there was no Combat Upgrade, there was no Kashyyyk, there was no Mustafar. There were no Shipwright-specific Clothing Attachments (CA's). All of those things have been implemented *after* the release of JtL, and the sweeping changes and additions to the game have impacted the Shipwright profession in both postive (CA's, Elite POB components, etc.) and negative (non-craftable, highly desirable ship chassis) ways.
In addition, the short-sighted idea to require Shipwright to use Skill Points (SP) instead of being a "free" Profession like Pilot and Politician leave Shipwright's hampered by the fact that Shipwright is the only profession that requires SP that cannot be converted into FS XP. The sad irony here is that a "free" skill like Politican XP - that requires no resources,norcredits - can be converted for FS XP, while Shipwright cannot. In addition, Shipwright remains the only profession (other than Pilot) which cannot gain FS XP through the practice of their chosen profession.
2. If Shipwright XP could be converted, "everyone" would be doing it.
This is truly one of the most short-sighted and ignorant arguments against allowing conversion. It has been demonstrated that if Shipwright's were allowed to convert XP at the same rate as Architects (35:1) it would take approximately630 million resources. These numbers are cost and time-prohibitive, as you would have to either pay for the resources orgather them yourself with harvesters. The resource numbers alone would deter players from attempting to use the Shipwright profession as the "fast track" to Jedi.
3. The market would be flooded with cheap, low quality chassis.
This argument has two major failings. First, if a player was trying to get as much XP as possible for conversion, they would be crafting in practice mode for the extra XP gained. Second, if they were trying to sell cheap chassis in an attempt to recoup some of their outlay for resources (at a cost of at least 630 million credits), the length of time since the release of JtL has provided ample time for players to become knowledgable about what is and is not a quality piece of work. "Grinders" dumping substandard parts onto the market would be paying to list items that would more often than not never be purchased.
So I advocate allowing Shipwright XP to be converted. It has been a long time since JtL was released, and the game has evolved a great deal since that time, and the space/ground game(s) have become more integrated with quests that have both ground and interstellar components to them. Ground-based missions give space-based loot, and space missions give components used by Smugglers. With the blurring of the line between the space and ground games, and the fact that Shipwrights remain the only profession that requires SP, it is past time to end the inequity where Shipwrights cannot convert XP into FS XP by crafting in the profession they have chosen, and love to play.
A change to allow XP conversion would benefit the Shipwright community as it would give those players natural access to the Crafting Master lines, and would lead to better chassis and components as Shipwrights gain the FS lines, by simply practicing their craft.
Wow, this sums things up very nicely. One minor point, it's actually closer to 660 million resources to grind out all four FS crafting branches. Hehe, great post though.
Slim Vargo, Corbantis