Shipwright Archive
Thread: Shipwrights in Live, Read, Discuss, etc. (Regards Factory Support)
bozotheclowno wrote:
I'm not saying, screaming or crying for factories, I'm asking if its something people are going to get as up and arms about as they should be.
But let me touch on this:
MaxSteele wrote:
I enjoy hand-crafting and I'm sure there are others who do as well.
SOE cannot cater to everyone's play-style. Those who say they don't have the time to dedicate to being a shipwright don't get to be the type of Shipwright they want to be. It's that simple.
Max... to say 'tough luck' to someone who pays for this game, every month, and wants to be a shipwright but can't because he doesn't have time to hand craft everything for 12 hours straight isn't going to cut it. This Profession, building ships, has been what I wanted to do the day I bought the game, on the false pretences that space was already in the game. I after waiting a full year and then some am finally able to do this, but now I'm told that since I'm busy, work, school, real life, etc, that I cannot be the type of shipwright that I wanted to be because unlike everyother crafting profession in this game that this ONE doesn't have the same depth as the rest of them.
I pay for this game every month, and I want to bea Jedi. But I can't because I don't have the time to grind out the millions of experience needed to get it.
And I'm ok with that.
You need to realize that your $15 a month doesn't give you stock in SOE. You don't get to have everything you want in this game because you pay a monthly fee.
ZenDragonMLS wrote:
Rolassk wrote:
What needs to happen is all the multi-account / lot swapping shipwrights need to step back and realize what the profession is about. If any of you can't see that this crafting profession was designed with much more care towards game balance (yes this includes the decision to not add full factory support) over the ground crafting professions, then you are a moron plain and simple.
I'm tired of hearing this "it's not fair, all the other crafting profs can make everything in a factory" (try starting out and competing as a 10pt weaponsmith ROFL) lame argument. Learn to communicate and build a relationship with your pilot customers. You are not just a car manufacturer... you are also the car salesman and the car's mechanic.
I'm here to tell you that you *CAN* use a factory AND build a relationship with your customers. You *CAN* use a factory without being one of those multi-account / lot swapping Evil Monopolistic crafters that destroy whole server economies single handedly.
Of course you CAN use a factory and still deal personally with all your customers. But you certainly DO NOT have to, if you are using them. IMHO to be a viable lasting shipwright you will be forced to communicate with your customer base, which is a definate good thing to be 'forced' into doing (ya know since this is an MMOG). I didn't say that lot swappers / multi account players destroyed the economy. I said that shipwright was developed with a keen eye towards game balance. This involves such things as:
- Giving new shipwrights a better chance to compete with the masters
- Giving new shipwrights months from now, a chance to compete with the early masters
- Maintaining a need for possibly hundreds of shipwrights per server to keep up with the demand. Instead of 5 shipwrights on a server who have stockpiled a ton of resources and mass produced 'the best' thousands of times over.
- Helping to promote price competition. A pilot can go and ask the next shipwright to make him something if they feel a current shipwright is pricing to high. Instead of realizing, that they have to pay whatever that price may be,because this is the best and the only place to get it.
- Allowing small time players to be able to make enough with shipwright to enjoy doing it. I have said, in my previous post that factories will notgive a small time player more time todo shipwright(read above)
- Devs realizing that since there won't be factory support for the final product, that they would make the items easier to craft. You do not need several components, or components in the 'identical factory crate' category to make anything with Shipwright.
I've heard all of the arguements about why we shouldn't have factories. I assume that you've heard all of the arguements about why we should have factories. I don't believe that at the moment either of us will change our minds. I don't believe the developers will re-open this decision till we get some experience under our belt. I'm fine with shelving this discussion and revisiting it in a couple of months - I'd rather we spend our time on all of the other issues facing us.
Agree (and this will be my last post on this issue for now), like correcting the bugs still left from Beta.
I don't issue moral judgements about people who don't want factories, or ascribe evil motivations or gross stupidity to them. You might consider adopting a similar approach. We *will* be working together on the other issues - let's do it with mutual trust and respect.
If any of you can't see that this crafting profession was designed with much more care towards game balance (yes this includes the decision to not add full factory support) over the ground crafting professions, then you are a moron plain and simple.
Icould carelessif you do not like my way of speech on these boards, but my quote is the truth, if you don't agree then I think youare a moron. In the early stages of this debate I did adopt a similar approach, but all I'm reading is "I want factories, every other crafting prof has them". Well that is a whine, and I will respond to it accordingly. Instead of portraying me as some hate mongering grossly stupid shipwright why don't you tell me usall why full factory support is a good thing for the entire JTL community,not just a good thing foryourself.
bozotheclowno wrote:
I after waiting a full year and then some am finally able to do this, but now I'm told that since I'm busy, work, school, real life, etc, that I cannot be the type of shipwright that I wanted to be because unlike everyother crafting profession in this game that this ONE doesn't have the same depth as the rest of them.
Actually I think using no factories and having to consult with customers adds depth to the profession. Yes shipwright is different in many ways from other crafting professions. I do not believe this is a bad thing.
And there are other professions that require handcrafting to be successfull like tailor and partly droid engineer. Tailer is all about customization, the color is what makes the difference between cloths. If you stock your vendor with identical cloths, they will not sell.
In a way shipwright is similar. It is all about customization. The pilot and the shipwright both profit from interaction. And I believe this is, what the whole thing is about.
Yes, let us give it a try. I believe it will work out quite well.
And I really do not quite understand, why you think you need factories. You do not need to supply the whole server population with ships. If you want to do other things besides crafting, do so. If your time does not allow to help all your customers, try having fewer customers. Yes, prices will be higher. But higher prices just mean, there will be more shipwrights.
I tend to believe, things will balance out quite fast.
Regards
Niacia
Message Edited by Niacia on 10-27-2004 12:02 PM
Niacia wrote:
And I really do not quite understand, why you think you need factories. You do not need to supply the whole server population with ships. If you want to do other things besides crafting, do so. If your time does not allow to help all your customers, try having fewer customers. Yes, prices will be higher. But higher prices just mean, there will be more shipwrights.
Message Edited by Niacia on 10-27-2004 12:02 PM
pervel wrote:
Niacia wrote:
And I really do not quite understand, why you think you need factories. You do not need to supply the whole server population with ships. If you want to do other things besides crafting, do so. If your time does not allow to help all your customers, try having fewer customers. Yes, prices will be higher. But higher prices just mean, there will be more shipwrights.Message Edited by Niacia on 10-27-2004 12:02 PM
Then you really haven't read the arguments for factories. It is only the people that are against factories that use the "flooding the market" argument. Please read my arguments a couple of posts up.
Tochee, the consistancy argument I can buy. However, I believe, this is something the devs were trying to avoid. Instead of consistant mass produced ships we will get a large variety of different ships.
Actually I wrote my reply before having read all the posts. However, I read many of those arguments in the beta boards. This specific one I read only a very few times. When I wrote my reply I simply did forget about this
. And somehow I do not believe, this is the problem most people are having with the factory system. Of course, I might be wrong.Having no factories means, optimal ships are very rare. Those will go at a very high rate. It keeps those ship special. I actually see this as an advantage. So one question we need to ask ourselves: "Is consistant high (or optimum) quality good or bad?".
Different people will have different answers for this one. As a collector, I believe, variety and the need to search for things, actually are an advantage, as it makes the game more interesting.
Somebody else, who is not a collector but combat centered, might have a different opinion.
I personally see this no factory policy as an advantage, It will make things a lot more interesting to me. And I believe, many casual crafters will find it works the same way for them. This is a gambit on the devs part. Nobody knows, whether it will work out the way, the devs believe. I think, it is at last worthwhile to give it a try. And I am convinced, this is, what the devs are doing right now.
If it turns out, that the majority of the player base, both pilots and shipwrights, are unhappy with this choice - after getting used to it - then I believe, they will introduce factories at a later point. But not during the first few weeks. They will try to kill the bugs first. Then there will be combat balance and a more reasonable usage of the space content.
At that point in time, they will probably take another look at the factory issue. If it still is an issue at that time.
Regards
Niacia
Rolassk wrote:
ZenDragonMLS wrote:
I don't issue moral judgements about people who don't want factories, or ascribe evil motivations or gross stupidity to them. You might consider adopting a similar approach. We *will* be working together on the other issues - let's do it with mutual trust and respect.
If any of you can't see that this crafting profession was designed with much more care towards game balance (yes this includes the decision to not add full factory support) over the ground crafting professions, then you are a moron plain and simple.
I could careless if you do not like my way of speech on these boards, but my quote is the truth, if you don't agree then I think you are a moron. In the early stages of this debate I did adopt a similar approach, but all I'm reading is "I want factories, every other crafting prof has them". Well that is a whine, and I will respond to it accordingly. Instead of portraying me as some hate mongering grossly stupid shipwright why don't you tell me us all why full factory support is a good thing for the entire JTL community, not just a good thing for yourself.
So because I don't see the world the same way you do, I *am* a moron?
The level of respect and professionalism on the Shipwright board is less than I had hoped it would be.
On to the next issue - this one is dead for a couple of months.
SLK wrote:
No factoryruns for chassies, but for components
Nobody in his sane mind would build chassis in a factory anyway. So this is not a compromise.
How about factories, but no experimentation if you use factories
Regards
Niacia