Shipwright Archive

Thread: Why Reverse Engineering and Crafting are the same (almost)

Thunderbyte
Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:41 pm
#14






CommTampers wrote:




Except that fullfactory support doesn't exist forcrafted engines.


and


I do craft mine individaully. Each component I make gets a full dose of Tender Loving Care.







Ok, in my example I was talking about crafting in general. The fact that there is limited factory support in crafting for a shipwright just gives crafting (in this case) and RE just that muchMORE in common.







CommTampers wrote:




As I said before, RE'ing is a variant of crafting. Both require resources, both require the shipwright to combine. A shipwright can only make money on the crafting, since an RE kit comes dirt cheap. Both end up with a result based on the resources used. By nature the mass producable system will have mass producable stats, and the more customized system will have the higher quality stats. I just don't understand why this is such a hard concept for some people, as it's something you see in everyday life. In real life, we can keep the knowledge we learn, anduse it repeatedly. In SWG, we forget the stuff we learn after one craft. And from a game design perspective as long as both systems are equally desireable (and if you know how to craft the right parts then you can't argue this one) and both require shipwrights to do the combine (and they do) then there's nothing imbalancing about either system.






Lol, if we go by your logic than the cost of RE'ing is actually MORE than the cost of crafting. After all, if we ignore the value of the resources (or loot) used then Re'ing cost's one use for a Component Analysis Tool, where as using a crafting tool is free.


And using real life analogies is good and all, and I know I use my share of them, but there is also a game perspective here, and crafting (in all it's forms) is a game in itself.



         /                   \            
//| |\\ Kauri:
/// \\\ Really BadJack - Shipwright/Swordsman
|\ /// \\\ /|
\//|/ /=======\ \|\\/ Radiant:
/|O|\ ///---+---\\\ /|O|\ Nabushin - Pistoleer/Commando
|-^-||------/// \ | / \\\------||-^-| Olaw - Artisan/Shipwright
|_O_||>====<|||___\|/___|||>====<||_O_|
| O ||>====<||| /|\ |||>====<|| O |
|-v-||------\\\ / | \ ///------||-v-|
\|O|/ \\\---+---/// \|O|/
/\\|\ \=======/ /|//\
|/ \\\ /// \|
\\\ ///
\\| |//
\ /

Thunderbyte
Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:01 pm
#15






CommTampers wrote:


Though economics still exist, THROW THE CRAFTERS A FRICKIN BONE!!! As if the starmap quest wasn't cruel enough to crafters by not only putting out loot better than their crafted, but doing it ina way that a pure crafter cannot acquire as those it was geared for. If only the devs hadn't abandoned their philosophy of crafters putting out the best.





You kidding? Guess you never saw my Starmap engine, let's just say that it'll never ever beat a crafted engine


Besides, just about all the loot from the starmap quests by themselves aren't very good, it's only when they are RE'd that they have a chance of being great. And who RE's them? It's no different from when a hunter brings you great hides or something to craft him some armor, or something similar. In other games, that's the only way to craft anything.


The best components in this game from a space point of view are either crafted or RE'd, and RE'ing is just a variant of crafting. In the end the best stuff comes right from a shipwrights hands, whether he/she gathered the resources (or loot) himself or had someone else do it.



         /                   \            
//| |\\ Kauri:
/// \\\ Really BadJack - Shipwright/Swordsman
|\ /// \\\ /|
\//|/ /=======\ \|\\/ Radiant:
/|O|\ ///---+---\\\ /|O|\ Nabushin - Pistoleer/Commando
|-^-||------/// \ | / \\\------||-^-| Olaw - Artisan/Shipwright
|_O_||>====<|||___\|/___|||>====<||_O_|
| O ||>====<||| /|\ |||>====<|| O |
|-v-||------\\\ / | \ ///------||-v-|
\|O|/ \\\---+---/// \|O|/
/\\|\ \=======/ /|//\
|/ \\\ /// \|
\\\ ///
\\| |//
\ /

CommTampers
Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:04 pm
#16

I like this agressive debate.



Lieutenant Bon ~ Sabre 4 ~ Captain of the Midnight Blue~ Field Doctor
Jagged-F3l
Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:57 am
#17

/disagree


Reverse engineering and crafting arenothing alike. Let me explain a few points why I believe this:



  • Resource Gathering -- does not equate to looting. The process of gathering resources is far more sophisticated and involves quite a bit more skill than farming ship components. First, a crafter has at least two alternatives open to them for acquiring resources: purchase and harvest. The decision to purchase resources may be driven by many factors, including resource quality, resource quantity, demand placed on the crafter by the market, and the crafter's own ability to harvest resources (e.g., there are periods that the crafter may be faced with harvesting one or another of two resources, and sometimes the crafter may have to purchase the other resource). Second, a crafter can survey planets across the galaxy and harvester desirable resources. This process requires skilled management, as all crafters have a finite number of lots to deploy a harvester on. Of course, a crafter that has an entire guild behind them offering their lots for this purpose has more choice in the matter, and thus probably doesn't require as high a level of skill regarding harvester management.

  • Finished Product -- when you finish reverse engineering, you have a one-of-the-kind, one useproduct. Once it has decayed, you can consider yourself very, very lucky if you ever see anything close to it again.From the same (or evensimilar)resources, I am reasonably guaranteed that I can craft more than one of any particular item with comparable stats. When I sell a customer a particular item, they can be rest assured that when it decays into dust, they can come back to me and be reasonable guaranteed that I can make them another.

  • Ship Buildout -- a shipwright that does nothing but reverse engineer looted ship components has less options open to them in building out a ship for a customer. This restriction comes in the form of what the stats of components you have to work from. As a crafter I have different resources, upgrades, and experimentation that I can use to meet a wider variety of requirements from customers. In fact, I find it a most enjoyable challenge when a customer comes to me and says, "Hey, someone reverse engineer this awesome weapon for me and I want to put it in my JSF, you know, the one you built out for me about a month ago." Now the true engineering begins. I have been an engineer now for 25 years and the most enjoyable part of the job is working with real-life constraints, determining the trade-offs and analyzing the pros/cons of each of those trade-offs.



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