Shipwright Archive
Thread: master shipwrights dont know jack
WranglerDekar
Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:09 am
#14
Well to support the shipwrights...or just myself and not to flame the original poster because i agree there are alot who know nothing...
But as for me I think I know a good deal about teh SW profession. I know what should be experimented on primarily, unless i get orders saying to do others. I know about the RE'n part of SW as well. I spent almost all of my time in Beta trying to learn the ins and outs of the profession so I could be one of the best on the Bloodfin server. If anyone has any questions, comments, concerns, ORDERS....feel free to contact me!! Thanks!~ Shiver of Bloodfin ~
Niacia
Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:14 am
#15
pervel wrote:I am amazed! Totally amazed by what people think are the causes of different things. Next some people will ask that the xp requirement for shipwright be increased so that we will get more knowledgable shipwrights.Guys... the only thing that dertermines how much a crafter knows about his profession is the effort he has put into understanding it in relation to his intelligence. And the only way you as customer can determine if a crafter knows his profession is by looking at the stuff he makes and/or by talking to him.
Of course, this would not work. However long it takes to become master of any profession does not matter, if you just grind away. If you want to be knowledgeable, it is necessary to examine thing, to try things, make your errors and discoveries. This takes time.
What I wanted to say up there was, this process actually is easier if you do it while becoming master, instead of learning things as a master. To learn this stuff as a master is harder, because you are forced to learn everything at once.
Regards
Niacia
Brilyn
Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:39 am
#16
< What I wanted to say up there was, this process actually is easier if you do it while becoming master, instead of learning things as a master. To learn this stuff as a master is harder, because you are forced to learn everything at once. >
I agree.
People who grind out aprofession, for the most part, don't even try.
If you provide the idiots with factories, they will churn out max-Max Damage weaponry non-stop.
The pilots, who are not crafters (and thus, don't understand crafting), will presume this is the norm, and will set these weapons as their 'standard' weapon. Any weapon that is NOT maxxed in Max Damage will be perceived to be sub-par.
Having to educate the pilots is one thing. Having to educate them, and then being told "But every other SW has THIS strength weapon? Why don't you?" is a pain in the ass.
As a WS I *still* get requests to 'max the damage, don't worry about the speed', like I have a *choice* in the matter. The majority of players are ignorant (not an insult, a statement of fact) of the crafting process, and don't want to know. And that's ok.
But if you provide a facility for the moron-brigade to educate them, it's going to be a pain in the ass for the rest of us........
This is why I'm anti-factory. The profession doesn't *need* it. People *want* it to make their lives 'easier'.
AspiringBountyHunter
Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:27 am
#17
It doesn't take much to learn what to experiment on in shipwright. While there are alot of options to work on, most have such a small change per point its not worth doing anything to.
Example, energy per shot line on weapons. It would typically take close to 8 points to get the energy per shot to lower 1 point from the initial build. Those 8 points could be better used in another line such as min/max damage.
Trebs
Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:40 am
#18
I'm a little conflicted as I try to give others the benefit of the doubt. Personally, I wish that I was farther in the shipwright tree - but I'm being slowed down because I AM learning more about reverse engineering as I work on parts my guildmates keep giving me. Also, not everyone was in beta - give a thought that this might only be the 4th day someone has been seeing JTL and yes, they had enough materials to get to master shipwright, and maybe even along the way started learning all they could about weapons, materials, optimizations, etc... just haven't used the analyzer tool at all yet. Heh - I guess they COULD have kept the original design of shipwright and made us all do a branch of RE <shudder>.
Brilyn
Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:57 am
#19
< It would typically take close to 8 points to get the energy per shot to lower 1 point from the initial build. >
/eyebrow
It's obviously changed drastically since Beta.
In Beta (ie at the *end* of beta), I could drop the cost per shot by 2-3 points when I maxxed out the line.
Once I get JTL up and running, I'll check this out for myself. This doesn't sound correct, though.
If you drop guns by 3 points per shot, and the ship (kimo) has 3 guns, that's 9 energy per shot you're saving. at 3 shots per second (roughly), that's 27 energy per second that the regen on the Capacitor *doesn't* have to fight with.
I consider that worthwhile, as the person will be able to sustain fire, for longer, with less cool-down needed per burst.
ravingbantha
Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:40 pm
#20
hears a way to look at all this.....
PERSON A : Slowly ground out shipwright, he took the time to learn each and every component and what is needed and what can and cannot be experiemented on to make the items. However what he does not know is what is better than what he can mkae. Not only that but he can't make the best gear he can make. He lacks the experience.
PERSON B : Power grinds out shipwright. He didn't learn anything in the grind about the class. But he has full access to all schematics, and full experince points. He may not have the imtiment knodledge of each item by the time he reaches master. But he is able to look at everything. Find out what optional components work best and even if they are worth the time. He can get a better idea og how much better the chassis are compared to others of their faction. He can now play around and figure out things like, how much mass does a TIE light duty really need to be decked out. Or how much energy output a reactor needs to power a ship.
You can argue both sides till your blue in the face, the simple fact comes down to this.... It's a matter of player commement to the class he has mastered. Crafters who are goos are crafters that enjoy crafting. The people that don't mind making harvester runs, restocking vendors, or answering questions. A goodcrafter is not a datapad full of draft schematics and a storage vendor full of resources. A good crafter takes the time to learn what can do what. For a SW he learns just how much mass a chassis really needs to be decked out and then puts the rest into hitpoints.
It dosen't matter which way he mastered the class, what matters is his commentment to the class.
I ground out Shipwright by making chassis, but once I did I went into my shop and played around with stuff. I know that a teir 1 ship really only needs 11500 mass, anything over that is going to go to waist. It dosen't matter how I mastered the class, what matters is what I do with it. Do I just make stuff and throw it up on a vendor? Or do I learn how to make really good stuff and throw it up on a vendor?
ObiQuixote
Sat Oct 30, 2004 9:00 pm
#22
The only way to learn it is to do it in conjunction with a pilot profession.
Only way to learn where to experiment and good setups for ships.
Only way to learn where to experiment and good setups for ships.
Harkyn1
Sat Oct 30, 2004 9:31 pm
#23
ObiQuixote wrote:
The only way to learn it is to do it in conjunction with a pilot profession.
Only way to learn where to experiment and good setups for ships.
OH right there! I don't sell what hasnt been tested and thankfully ai have friends that are advancing faster then me so they can test items out and tell what doesnt work or what I can change.
ObiQuixote
Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:32 pm
#24
Just a lot of tricks that took piloting experience as well as shipwright to figure out. The most important one is designing your weapons systems around your capacitor.
After piloting for a while and doing some duty missions you quickly learn that the ability to maintain fire is more important then having the biggest single shot and that higher rate of fire helps in hitting the target more often.
If nothing has changed much since beta then weapons will be the only thing you cant find better looted components for.
Eventually I think shipwrights will mostly be making reactors, weapons and hulls. The best shipwrights will be the ones that can take a customers capacitor and weight requirements and design good weapon system for it.
After piloting for a while and doing some duty missions you quickly learn that the ability to maintain fire is more important then having the biggest single shot and that higher rate of fire helps in hitting the target more often.
If nothing has changed much since beta then weapons will be the only thing you cant find better looted components for.
Eventually I think shipwrights will mostly be making reactors, weapons and hulls. The best shipwrights will be the ones that can take a customers capacitor and weight requirements and design good weapon system for it.
Trebs
Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:09 am
#25
I gotta say - I totally changed my thinking about shipwright tonight. I decided to put away the tools tonight and actually fly. Even during beta, I never got out of novice pilot due to playing with shipwright and Ithorians. Since I wanted a nice Z95 for myself, I took some of the xp I was gonna use for chassis 3, and instead trained so I am 2111 shipwright. Nice thing is, I can now make Mark I items across the board for myself and for friends that are in a similar situation. Ya, I could have just holed up and tried to grind out master, but I think I am gonna stretch it and have fun with it instead. Just like pilots have to go up a tier at a time, since the shipwright prof is similarly built, I'm gonna do it like this.
Yes, I won't have the best experimented Mark II items, etc... but for me and my guildmates - it's kinda fun just playing this by the seat of our pants and cracking up at our mistakes. Friend just went up - had a great time with a new capacitor that was good enough to recharge AS he was shooting... problem - when he got hit, his shields didn't rebuild that fast in part because he was a little overloaded on power needs.
fatgato
Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:17 am
#26
I do not agree , it depends on the person . Grinding ot master for those who know what they are doing , i.e. read up on it or have crafted before in SWG . I have done every crafting profession in the game. I run successful AS , Doc buff. WS, and chef business. Now my SW store is so busy I am unable to keep things in stock. So your idea that people who grind to master doesnt learn anything about the class is a crock. Some people do not now anything about crafting , I have seen people who crafted slowly and stil ldoesnt know anything about crafting. Its all depends on the person and they time and research they put into the profession.