Shipwright Archive

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PetaByte32 wrote:
How long does it take making swoops to max out artisan xp? I can max out shipwright in 5 minutes. So I can sit in the village with a inventory full of resources and max out my shipwright xp 16 times in about 1 and a half hours. 16 times is all you need for novice. The other boxes would be about the same. I could get all four tiers, if I had them unlocked already, in about 5 days at 8 hours a day with shipwright.

Now I am not sure what you think but last time I checked, the village, was meant to slow everyone down and make them take time get jedi. I believe 5 days is a little on the fast side dont you think? And before you say it, I know 5 people myself included, that has all four trees waiting to be filled. I never filled em because I dont really care. But these other guys do.

Tyranus

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Does it matter, how long you need to max out XP in a profession? Yes, capping SW XP is faster then capping Artisan XP. But converting the capped Artisan XP to force XP gives you a lot more then 3k force XP.

So even if it takes longer to cap the Artisan XP, it is a much faster way to get force XP.

So why should anyone do SW just to grind Jedi, if there is a cheaper and faster way? This is not very likely. However, someone who is shipwright, because he wants to be shipwright will get some kind of bonus from his crafting.

Yes, it takes a long time to fill the Grand Canyon using a spoon. But it is a lot faster then not even trying to fill it at all. Sure there are faster ways. But not everybody cares for being efficient. (At least not playing a game). Not everyone is a powergamer..

For me it is the notion of getting there eventually, even if it takes a few years.

Regards

Niacia

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Niacia wrote:
Ok, just taking a look at some numbers mentioned above:
PetaByte32 states at a 100:1 ratio it would take about 90 minutes for a novice box (50kXP)
ShipCastor states building swoops it takes about 30 mins for a tier 1 box (175kXP).

This means, using SW as a way to master Jedi, would take more then 9 times the amount of time then using Master Artisan.

Imho not many powergamers would use this approach....

Regards
Niacia

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The why do you fight for it so hard? No one has yet to answer this question for me even in the other posts. If its such a small drop in a bucket why does it really matter? I believe it was you who said you would most likely quit this game if you didnt get FS xp for shipwright yes? If its such a small thing with small numbers and so on why leave an entire game? Why fight so hard?

Tyranus

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PetaByte32 wrote:

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on this. I see this as an extravagance that could risk all of JTL.

While everyone else sees it as the win all be all of shipwright. Like the whole profession will die and no one will ever play a shipwright again if this isnt supported.

One last analogy. You decide to fill the Grand Canyon. You hire a company to do it. They bring 5 dozers and lifters. They start to work filling it. You then grab a spoon and start filling one spoonful at a time. Does it really matter if you do it not? Will it make your workmen finish even one day or one hour earlier because you did it? No? Then why pick up the spoon in the first place.

Someone said how it wouldnt be wise or prudent to use SW to make it to jedi. Will if thats the case then why fight for it so hard? Because in fact it would matter because deep down everyone knows that shipwright would help people make it to jedi alot faster. If it didnt then you guys wouldnt be fighting so hard for it and willing to risk jedi ruining JTL so much.

This is the 10th thread in 2 weeks I have seen on this. All 10 have been steadfast supporters of FS exchanges for shipwright. To the point of some people threatening to quit the game completely if this is not added. Now that to me is yet one more reason why shipwrights should NOT get this.

Tyranus

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That's not the reason that I would like to convert SW Crafting XP to Force Crafting XP. Right now, I am a Master Artisan and a Novice Shipwright. I have always wanted to play the SW Profession since it was first hinted at back before SWG was released. Now, I am playing that profession and I have unlocked one box of Force Crafting, I just haven't filled or started to fill any boxes with the pitiful amount of Force Crafting XP I currently have.

My problem is that there simply isn't enough Skill Points to go around. I am committed to making Master Shipwright and I am also committed to unlocking the second character slot.

My problem is that if I keep focused on SW, I will have to drop away Master Artisan in order to be capable of keeping up with some of my combat abilities to a point that I can just complete ground combat missions, with some help.

Unfortunately, if I am to make any progress with Force Crafting XP, I need a skill that can generate a decent amount of Crafting XP to convert to Force Crafting XP. Right now, that's Master Artisan.

The lack of conversion from SW Crafting to FS Crafting XP is putting a serious damper on my slow long climb to filling one Force Crafting Tree. Which I don't expect to have completely filled for at least a year or so of playing. Then, I can start on my next branch, between which I should have all six of the required trees unlocked for filling.

The problem is that it adversly affects those of us that are casual gamers. There are plenty of us out there. Since day one of the release of JTL, I have been a Shipwright. I have focused intensely on obtaining the resources and have even had some assistance from my guildmates in gathering resources. Last night, I FINALLY got enough XP to be able to craft X-Wings. I can see it taking another few weeks before I can get up to crafting A-Wings, because of the resources needed for X-Wings and maybe another two months before I can completely master the Shipwright Profession.

Not everyone that is asking for conversion is capable of 'grinding' out an entire FS Crafting Tree in one day. Those that are capable of that can likely grind out a FS Tree quite similarly using one of the other crafting Professions.

If the SW Profession took fewer Skill Points or had the conversion option, this wouldn't be an issue for me.

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EvilHomerSimpson wrote:

There is no way SW would help a lot of people grind Jedi any quicker than DE or Artisan. The sheer amount of resources required to cap the XP is the gate. You may be able to get a few boxes quickly at first but once you rin out of materials you will either spend hundreds of millions or have to have all your lots harvesting 24/7 to fullfill the resource which could take days. In that time I could (and have) ground out a whole branch in a day with DE Advanced Droid Frames using only 30k Fibreplast and 75k Steel for each capping of DE XP.

And the slippery slope argument is false as well. The Devs can do whatever they want without having to follow some thought about vehicular control having to apply to starships b/c SW can convert XP.

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Exactly!

Using the argument that Jedi or Force Sensitives would start whining about needing Vehicle Control bonuses in space is, quite frankly, silly. No matter how you look at it, there will be Force Sensitives and Jedi continually requesting that.

The Devs Never have to look at those requests and if they choose to address that request all they have to say is, "As we have said before, No, means No, which means only No. So, drop it."

However, Shipwright is a ground based crafting Profession that takes up Skill points, uses the same basic game mechanics as ALL the other ground based crafting Professions with two major differences. One, you need to have purchased the JTL Expansion. Two, it currently doesn't provide any kind of Force Crafting Conversion. If you boil it all down, those are the only differences. All crafting Professions require crafting tools, crafting stations, resources and time.

I see no reason, other then some arbitrary decision, which makes little sense to me right now, for excluding Shipwrights from covnerting SW Crafting XP to FS Crafting XP.

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PetaByte32 wrote:

If its such a small thing with small numbers and so on why leave an entire game? Why fight so hard?

Tyranus

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I did not say most likely...

Anyway, I tried to explain this to you a few times by now. I just get the impression, the concept is so alien to you, that you cannot understand what I am trying to explain. Let me try to explain it a little different.

I play this game to have fun. Probably you do too. For me fun has nothing to do with being efficient. So, if SW is not an efficient way to master, it does not bother me in the least.

Nevertheless, traveling to the village, trading XP, getting a little closer to unlocking the second char slot still is fun to me. To this end, it is not so important, whether I get 3k force XP or 30k force XP. The "amount" of fun is roughly the same.

The feeling of getting there is important. I do not mind, if it takes ages, but this feeling gives me a major boost. I am more motivated to play. For me the new way to Jedi is a major improvement compared to the old one. I did not like hologrinding. I had no inclination to screw my char up, just to grind a prefession, I would not want to play. The new system allows me to get closer to unlocking while going about my normal play. It does end some kind of endgame to SWG. At that time, the Jedi patch was the thing that stopped me from leaving galaxies.


With shipwright this endgame is missing. And I do fear, that I get bored with the game faster due to that reason. Might not happen, this remains to be seen .

Hopefully, I have had more luck, explaining it this time .

Regards

Niacia

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Niacia wrote:

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PetaByte32 wrote:

If its such a small thing with small numbers and so on why leave an entire game? Why fight so hard?

Tyranus

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I did not say most likely...

Anyway, I tried to explain this to you a few times by now. I just get the impression, the concept is so alien to you, that you cannot understand what I am trying to explain. Let me try to explain it a little different.

I play this game to have fun. Probably you do too. For me fun has nothing to do with being efficient. So, if SW is not an efficient way to master, it does not bother me in the least.

Nevertheless, traveling to the village, trading XP, getting a little closer to unlocking the second char slot still is fun to me. To this end, it is not so important, whether I get 3k force XP or 30k force XP. The "amount" of fun is roughly the same.

The feeling of getting there is important. I do not mind, if it takes ages, but this feeling gives me a major boost. I am more motivated to play. For me the new way to Jedi is a major improvement compared to the old one. I did not like hologrinding. I had no inclination to screw my char up, just to grind a prefession, I would not want to play. The new system allows me to get closer to unlocking while going about my normal play. It does end some kind of endgame to SWG. At that time, the Jedi patch was the thing that stopped me from leaving galaxies.


With shipwright this endgame is missing. And I do fear, that I get bored with the game faster due to that reason. Might not happen, this remains to be seen .

Hopefully, I have had more luck, explaining it this time .

Regards

Niacia

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I understood you the first time. But let me say this. If you would actually quit this game based on not getting your way because of a measly little 3k FS xp every few weeks then guess what? I think its time you looked for a different game. I am sorry to put it so harshly but I think you should consider it.

There are alot more serious problems with this game then this issue. Problems that in all honestly go way above what this issue makes you feel. If your "fun factor" would be so ruined and make this game so useless to you because of SW fs xp conversion, then really go hit the gamestore.

Smuggler's gameplay has been severely limited since the game was released. But I dont see any of them quitting because their profession is basically empty.

Rangers needed a revamp toofrom the beginning but I dont seeany of them threatening to quit.

Everyday I walk through coronet seeing all those jedi that are supposed to be rare andin hiding. I see them in theed dueling like mad. It makes me feel less like I am in a star wars game. My gameplay is affected by it. I cant pvp on the ground because of it. (Unless I want to go dust off my jedi or template stack) But do you see me wanting to quit? Even in the long run? No.

If your so keen on this, that you would get bored and not want to play SWG anymore because of a lousy conversion for one profession then really rethink playing this game. I think there is something way deeper then an xp conversion to make you want to even suggest quitting.

Tyranus

Yeah, I agree. And at some point I was thinking about quitting...

But let us not forget one thing. I wrote this in answer to a post by you, where you pointed out, that introducing FS conversion might lead to you quiting the game... I should look this up to quote you post.

And to be honest, I see people all the time, saying they will quit the game about one issue or another. Most do not...

Personally, I think threatening to quit the game is quite silly. Either you do it, or you do not. I used this as an answer to your post.

Yes, at the point, where I am bored stiff, I will quit this game. Right now, however, I am having a lot of fun, so this will probably not happen anytime soon.

What I wanted to point out, is that force conversion is fun for me. This is true for many other players. You are so very opposed to it, without giving other reasins, then the slippery slope argument so far...

Regarding the fact, that there are other issues more important, I agree. The combat revamp is overdue. So is the Smuggler revamp. But those are major project, where the force conversion is a comparatively minor change to the code. So I believe, introducing force conversion will not delay the combat recamp by more then half an hour .

If a dev came up, and told me it would take 2 days to implement this change, I would agree, those 2 days might be better spend elsewhere. The force conversion change is not that urgent. Instead they might rise the XP cap. However, while the change is not urgent, it still is important to me. And to many other players.

If they increased the cap significantly and promised to introduce force conversion after the combat revamp, this would be fine with me..

Regards

Niacia

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PetaByte32 wrote:

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Niacia wrote:
Petabyte,
I seem to be a little dumb here. I do not understand, how a LOW conversion rate affects your playstyle?
I agree force bonuses to the piloting skills would affect everyones palystyle and I am very much opposed to that. But that is a pilot issue, not a shipwright issue.

And yes, the dorce gain would be small, almost not noticeable. You said this yourself. So why would this affect your playstyle?

But it would make all the difference to people like me, because I would still be working toward a goal. For me, it is not about reaching a goal, it is about working towards a goal. This might be a way of thought you are not used to. For me it is actually better, if it takes a long time, because it keeps me occupied for that long time. Even, if it was only myself and no Jedi grinders, I would actually prefer a conversion rate of 100:1 compared to 1:1. Because it takes longer.

And regarding pilot skills. Piloting is twitch based. I experienced the effect of skill boni on a twitch based game in another MMORG. It sucks. It royaly sucks. The game is not fair anymore, and PvP just does not make any sense, if your playstyle is not compatible to these skill boni. For me, giving Jedi boni to piloting would destroy the pilot game. Just plain and simple.

And I do not care, if this fits into continuity. I know Luke is the pilot he is, because of his force sensitivity. But if it is continuity vs. fun, I prefer fun.

Regards

Niacia

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This would affect my playstyle as follows. As I said some people that want a shipwright xp conversion want vehicle control in space. So lets say the DEVs give you your xp conversion. Next these guys will use that as an example for why they should get vehicle control. So pretty soon the DEVs give in to these losers. Next the jedi start asking for their own uber pilot tree or special bonuses using the example of non-jedi getting VC. And again the DEVs give in and do what they want. Now my playstyle alters because I cancel my account and move onto a new game. Pretty big alteration.

Dont say the DEVs wont do it either. If these same people actually sat around a meeting table and all decided holocrons were a good idea, then this can and very likely will happen.

So you tell me which is more important? Your 100:1 conversion that would grant you maybe 3k fs xp at a time or jedi not being able to use this as a stepping stone to getting bonuses in space?

Tyranus

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This can be found at this page:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=profshipwright&message.id=5317&view=by_date_ascending&page=1

Regards

Niacia

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Niacia wrote:
Yeah, I agree. And at some point I was thinking about quitting...

But let us not forget one thing. I wrote this in answer to a post by you, where you pointed out, that introducing FS conversion might lead to you quiting the game... I should look this up to quote you post.

And to be honest, I see people all the time, saying they will quit the game about one issue or another. Most do not...

Personally, I think threatening to quit the game is quite silly. Either you do it, or you do not. I used this as an answer to your post.

Yes, at the point, where I am bored stiff, I will quit this game. Right now, however, I am having a lot of fun, so this will probably not happen anytime soon.

What I wanted to point out, is that force conversion is fun for me. This is true for many other players. You are so very opposed to it, without giving other reasins, then the slippery slope argument so far...

Regarding the fact, that there are other issues more important, I agree. The combat revamp is overdue. So is the Smuggler revamp. But those are major project, where the force conversion is a comparatively minor change to the code. So I believe, introducing force conversion will not delay the combat recamp by more then half an hour .

If a dev came up, and told me it would take 2 days to implement this change, I would agree, those 2 days might be better spend elsewhere. The force conversion change is not that urgent. Instead they might rise the XP cap. However, while the change is not urgent, it still is important to me. And to many other players.

If they increased the cap significantly and promised to introduce force conversion after the combat revamp, this would be fine with me..

Regards

Niacia

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Yes I would quit if it led to jedi getting bonuses in space. Because to me that would be way more of a change then no fs conversion.

Let me rephrase what I said as it seems I was way to harsh after rereading it. I should have said if not having an xp conversion for shipwright can make you so bored as to not want to play anymore then you should seriously think about some kind of a change.

Raising the XP cap wouldnt matter either even if they promised to do a conversion after the combat revamp. Lets say they did raise it as you suggest. Say up to 600k. Double what it is now. Most shipwrights would have it filled in just a few days if not sooner. Now we are back to where we started and the posts for a conversion would start again. Lets say they raised it by 4 times its current set. 1.2 million xp. Now it takes a week to fill it and we back to square one.

Honestly I am not too worried about it anymore as the DEVs havent even acknowledged this with a yay or nay or even general discussion. I have learned from past experiance with the DEVs if they dont acknowledge this in anyway it usually means (90% of the time) that their minds are made up and no amount of posts on the topic or support from the community will make them change.

Tyranus

Right now, the devs are not comenting very much on the SW boards. Still, they change things. I am sure, if this becomes a SW TOP 5 issue, they will think about it. Even, if they have their mind set, they will reconsider at that point.

Arguments might sway this decission. Threatening to quit will not .

And the other thing, I will eventuelly quit this game. Maybe in a few months. Maybe in a few years. Right now, I have fun. I kind of like having fun .

During the 1 1/3 years I am playing now, I was close to quiting once. This was fixed by force conversion. So naturally I am in favor of force conversion.

And regarding the XP limit. If you put it at, say, 30 millions. I would not be likely to reach the cap anytime soon. Do not forget, I am not a grinder. Many people in favor of force conversion are no grinders. I am not even MSW yet (SW 4444).

I take my time.

Regards

Niacia

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Niacia wrote:
The combat revamp is overdue. So is the Smuggler revamp.

Just for the record, I am neither a smuggler nor do I have any combat skills (apart from pilot). Nor did I apply for the combat revamp beta. I do still think, this is an important issue.

Regards

Niacia