Shipwright Archive
Thread: Loot drops nerfed, now what
PConsole
Sun Jan 09, 2005 10:15 am
#14
And, though I am one, where does it say that a shipwright has to be a master pilot as well in order to make his business succeed? Does a weaponsmith have to be a master pistoleer for example?
Diorchas
Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:10 am
#15
I commend the original poster for the thoughtful, well-reasoned post.
However, there is a fatal flaw in his logic.
If pilots are continually keeping the best loot for themselves, then that IMMEDIATELY invalidates the potential for REing as a profitable business. When all the SWs get is inferior or mediocre loot to RE with, the end result is going to be inferior or mediocre and no one will buy that.
If ALL loot had to be REed before it could be used then REing would be a viable business model. In that case pilots would have no reason to hoard the best loot and would instead be selling them to shipwrights instead of waiting to loot enough "filler" to go with their uber loot.
In my mind,useable loot, in addition to theinception of "Chassis Dealer as loot dump" is what has utterly destroyed the RE market.
Message Edited by Diorchas on 01-10-2005 10:12 AM
Graxul
Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:45 pm
#16
How often do you get requests from someone to reverse engineer a component for them? And how much do you charge? Most SW do this for free instead of charging them for the service. Its getting hard to find a master shipwright on farstar to RE all the equipment i want to get reverse engineered. But when I do find one they still offer the service for free instead of charging me for making their items better like a smuggler would. You could make some decent cash charging for reverse engineering yet you throw that cash away cause you'd rather offer the service for free so you can get that chance of getting a kuat fragment. Player made items are better than basic loot because in order to make the basic loot better you have to get them reverese engineered by a shipwright...thus a SW makes better items than loot. And forgive me if it wasn't for the chassis dealer buying equipment most loot would just get deleted because it is utter trash. Why do I need a level 7 reactor with only 10k power? or a level 7 engine when i use level 8s. If SW's did buy equipment from players it would probably only the low level loot that they can re quickly and then either sell or destroy themselves.
It would take up a lot of inventory to run a business solely on selling re loot but its a supply and demand issue if you re yourself you could charge whatever price you wanted for it. If you took the time to make really nice reverse engineered (re) items you could sell it for a fortune because its already made and people have money and they don't wanmt to go through the hassle of collecting the stuff themselves if they can find a good product already made for a mil and they have the cash for it. Quality weapons and armor sell for quite a good sum of money I'm sure quality RE items would sell quite well too.
So stop trying to bite the hand that feeds you. Your customer base is shrinking enough as it is and their are too many shipwrights for the amount of pilots that still fly. If PvP in space was viable then maybe there would be something that master pilots could do other than collect space loot for reverse engineering. But atm theres not much for master pilots to do.
cleekjc
Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:04 pm
#17
The truly sad part of the loot nerfs is: No matter how "uber" of loot you could loot. When the SW's RE the stuff it is always better than the original.....A Smart SW would charge 10-20k to RE 10k for a lvl 1 and 20k for a level 10. Since there is NO cost in RE if the player brings a SW all 6 parts needed to RE.......Not to mention the added bene of XP.....
Kalano
Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:59 pm
#18
I just finished a Yavin 4 spacestation duty mission. I can no where honestly say there there has been any reduction on loot dropping.
I got over 50 loot drops. I actually had to do some RE to make space and then destroyed some of the crap RE, level one stuff. There is a ton of loot to get. for those who want a drop per kill, which there have had been those who straight out say that, are being purely greedy, and see only crafters as slaves and a burden to the game.
The biggest complaint from SW is not how much is dropped, infact the less dropping, the less firespray disks that drop, but infact that the MSW cannot compete on ever type of component. Some components can not be experimented enought to equal several loot parts that are average loot drops.
No where are there a majority of SW that want to nerf loot, instead they want crafted boosted.
No, i got to find room to put all my loot till i can reverse it latter.
Graxul
Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:04 pm
#19
There are a lot of ways that crafted items could be improved but they still won't be as good as loot one level above crafted. But the base starting point where crafted engine ypr rates start at should be increased. There should also be a subcomponent that could increase the ypr rates of crafted engines as well.
The main problem with crafted items is that the base stats before experimenting are way too low in comparison to what is available from loot even of the same level. Don't get me wrong I'm all for boosting crafted equipment. Its just that in the devs point of view its easier for them to reduce or nerf loot drops than it is to completely rework shipwright crafting. As previously shown with the nerfing of engine loot and rewards.
An earlier proposal that shouldn't be too hard to implement (compared to redoing shipwright crafting equations) would be to allow master smugglers the ability to slice player crafted equipment and make them reverse engineerable with the tag that this item has been altered by a smuggler....that the reverse engineered equipment would have on it also. For balance purposes maybe only one player crafted reverse engineerable component could be added to the rest of the looted non reverse engineered set of components to be reverse engineered. In this way sw could concentrate their experimental points on one or two stats on equipment making it a specialized piece of equipment that players would want to buy in order to get them sliced and re into their loot sets.
For reactors SW could concentrate on sheer power output and let the customer get the mass of it reverse engineered down to what they want. For weapons they could concentrate on effectiveness against shielding... or whatever the customer needed most to complete their set. For engines you could specialize in top speed or mass and let the customer re it into their reverse engineering set.
It would allow shipwrights to truly make components that their customers would want to buy. And they'd return to you or another shipwright to get their set reverse engineered and you could charge them a small fee for that too. This would be one way of making current player crafted equipment useful to the customer base and allow for there to be a demand for their products without nerfing the space loot. Instead it would work with space loot and both the shipwrights and the pilots would be happy. It could also create some demand for custom orders of equipment if the customer needed a better stat that isn't normally specialized in and sold on the vendor commonly. And it would give master smugglers something else to slice, more business for them. After all Han did say he did a lot of special modifications himself on the falcon...this implementation could allow for this in SWG....without stepping on the toes of shipwrights too much. Smugglers can slice containers, some terminals,weapons and armor...why not player crafted equipment as well and give a helping hand in creating a demand for more player crafted equipment.
Nooca
Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:33 am
#20
As a master pilot and component gearhead most of the fun for me is flying missions and then seeing what kind of loot I get so I can take it and save it for RE. So, I hope that loot is not being nerfed. And I agree with the earlier posts that I have never been charged for having anything REd. Mostly, I make friends with my shipwrights and we tend to scratch each others backs. I bring them in a ton of loot and they RE for me for free. You could charge a per piece rate based on level for REing items. I know I would pay 1-2k per level without groaining. I just collected 10 level 10 engines that RE'd into an uber p/y/r 84/80/82 and top speed 100 with 45k mass that I love. I would have paid 20k for that. If any SWs on Sunrunner want to work with me, send an email to Mogee.
Diorchas
Tue Jan 11, 2005 5:52 am
#21
Graxul wrote:How often do you get requests from someone to reverse engineer a component for them? And how much do you charge? Most SW do this for free instead of charging them for the service. Its getting hard to find a master shipwright on farstar to RE all the equipment i want to get reverse engineered. But when I do find one they still offer the service for free instead of charging me for making their items better like a smuggler would. You could make some decent cash charging for reverse engineering yet you throw that cash away cause you'd rather offer the service for free so you can get that chance of getting a kuat fragment. Player made items are better than basic loot because in order to make the basic loot better you have to get them reverese engineered by a shipwright...thus a SW makes better items than loot. And forgive me if it wasn't for the chassis dealer buying equipment most loot would just get deleted because it is utter trash. Why do I need a level 7 reactor with only 10k power? or a level 7 engine when i use level 8s. If SW's did buy equipment from players it would probably only the low level loot that they can re quickly and then either sell or destroy themselves.It would take up a lot of inventory to run a business solely on selling re loot but its a supply and demand issue if you re yourself you could charge whatever price you wanted for it. If you took the time to make really nice reverse engineered (re) items you could sell it for a fortune because its already made and people have money and they don't wanmt to go through the hassle of collecting the stuff themselves if they can find a good product already made for a mil and they have the cash for it. Quality weapons and armor sell for quite a good sum of money I'm sure quality RE items would sell quite well too.So stop trying to bite the hand that feeds you. Your customer base is shrinking enough as it is and their are too many shipwrights for the amount of pilots that still fly. If PvP in space was viable then maybe there would be something that master pilots could do other than collect space loot for reverse engineering. But atm theres not much for master pilots to do.
The problem, Grax, is that SWs can't make really good REed items because the Pilots are hoarding the best loot for themselves. I agree with you that SWs should charge for REing, but until ALL of them do, ONE of them can't. Why would you, as a pilot, let me charge you for REing when you can easily find another SW who won't?
This is the Pandora's box that SOE opened when they put loot into the game that was both better than crafted components and immediately useable. It's death to SWs. That's why you see so many of us clamouring for making crafted items better. Most of us don't want loot nerfs. We just want to be treated like every other crafting profession in the game. No other crafter has to compete with loot. We do.
Arryth
Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:08 am
#23
I think is a really bad thing.. Its bad enough I have to pay the prices I do for ships, missiles, and armor.. all of which craft better then loot drops.. the other loot should have been left alone.. The days of crafters makeing such huge profits as they did need to be ended.
Arryth
Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:14 am
#24
Nooca wrote:As a master pilot and component gearhead most of the fun for me is flying missions and then seeing what kind of loot I get so I can take it and save it for RE. So, I hope that loot is not being nerfed. And I agree with the earlier posts that I have never been charged for having anything REd. Mostly, I make friends with my shipwrights and we tend to scratch each others backs. I bring them in a ton of loot and they RE for me for free. You could charge a per piece rate based on level for REing items. I know I would pay 1-2k per level without groaining. I just collected 10 level 10 engines that RE'd into an uber p/y/r 84/80/82 and top speed 100 with 45k mass that I love. I would have paid 20k for that. If any SWs on Sunrunner want to work with me, send an email to Mogee.
Exactly.. that was the single most fun part of jtls.. take that away.. and my reason to continue to play this game, and pay for it, is reduced. JTLS.. should not be about the shipwrights, so much as about the pilots... No pilots = no jtls. Unhappy pilots = no jtls. Unhappy shipwrights? Just change the lootsystem to even better.. and make it so that loot ships can just be "pieced" together by regular pilots... No inpact on jtls.. except the loss of a few shipwrights..., oh and the loss of great expence and annoyance for pilots. So I would be carefull how much I pressed loot nerfing, lest the pilot community turn against the shipwright community, and start demanding a completely loot based system for space.
Diorchas
Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:43 am
#25
Grax,
A better way would be to allow Shipwrights to create a limited run schematic from RE instead of just a single component. That way they won't be cut out from using the best loot i.e. the stuff Pilots are hoarding. Sooner or later those pilots will want the loot RE'ed, and then the SW benefits from it as well. Both sides are happy.
A better way would be to allow Shipwrights to create a limited run schematic from RE instead of just a single component. That way they won't be cut out from using the best loot i.e. the stuff Pilots are hoarding. Sooner or later those pilots will want the loot RE'ed, and then the SW benefits from it as well. Both sides are happy.
Diorchas
Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:45 am
#26
Arryth,
The profit margin on being a Shipwright is VERY slim. Anyone who says that Shipwrights are being greedy or overcharging needs to become a Shipwright so they can see the truth behind the profession.
Have some SW's gouged? Sure. But the vast majority are only trying to make a valid living in the game. You sound like you want everything handed to you for as cheap as you can get it. That's not how a player-run economy works. That's not how supply and demand works.
Before you come on here talking about how poorly you and other pilots are treated, do a little more homework. You might learn something.
The profit margin on being a Shipwright is VERY slim. Anyone who says that Shipwrights are being greedy or overcharging needs to become a Shipwright so they can see the truth behind the profession.
Have some SW's gouged? Sure. But the vast majority are only trying to make a valid living in the game. You sound like you want everything handed to you for as cheap as you can get it. That's not how a player-run economy works. That's not how supply and demand works.
Before you come on here talking about how poorly you and other pilots are treated, do a little more homework. You might learn something.