Shipwright Archive

Thread: WHat would people do if every sw stoped re and making anything (kill jtl)

Yalton
Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:43 pm
#14

HewerofWood wrote:

Some would Respec an Alt into Shipwright and RE all the massive loot piles they were accumulating and... HEY! that's exactly what I've already done! Go figure. But, for as many who feel that they need the recognition gained from a Massive Work stopage, there are more shipwrights out there who would continue to Maintain their current Client relations And, see an opportunity to gain new ones.

Overall Shipwright seems to be a balancing act. While Many RE'd parts are superior in many ways to Crafted items, the flip side is that you CAN'T gain RE'd components without the help of a Shipwright. And, unless you are a new pilot, non Reverse Engineered parts just don't cut it. Don't forget, That there are a good many ShipWrights who are also Pilots, Also, there are a great many Niche markets, and many motivations behind being a ShipWright. Not every one here is out to be the "Best" or "Biggest" on the server. In fact, it can be argued that there are Legions of "Best" on every server. So, if you choose to go on Strike, to show everyone how valuable YOU are, you just might find that... No one notices.





Hmmm sounds like what I have done. An Alt with Master DE, Master Merchant and Master Shipwright. She was a Master DE and Master Merchant for a LONG time. But not ahving to grind out all those chasis made it easy to get MSW and regrind DE. She isn't a master Artisian any more but there are soem in the guild that make schems for what I need if I give them the resource to make it.

You're boycott wouldn't hurt my guild. I make all of our parts and chasis are turned in for the next group of pilots to use. The heavy TIEs have basicaly made getting a new ship before Tier 4 stupid and then at Tier 4 you can get the JSF or the Bel-22 and use that as an Ace also. So most of the newer pilots don't buy new ships at every tier. At least for my guild. The only ones that change ships is us freelancers... untill we get a Krayte or Tier 4.

As for REing and crafted. Some things have always been better crafted and others are still better REed. Case in point is Guns and then there is capacitors. The four L9 guns in my krayte I made and have a refire rate of .250. The Capacitor in the Krayte has a regen of 47.2 and 1235 energy for just under 8.5k mass. The capcitor is an REed L6 Capacitor.
HewerofWood
Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:59 am
#15

I typicaly use RE'd;


* Weapons


*Capacitor


*Booster


*Engine



The Crafted Components are;


*Reactor


*Droid Interface


*Ordance ( NOT Lootable)


*Ammo



While Crafted Weapons can often Boast Some Impressive stats, I would rather use a .65 vs Shields AND Armor, rather than a .25 vs X and .75 - 85 vs. the other. Also, a weapon with Excellent Max and Min Damage yet having .48 Vs. Shields and Armor significantly reduces the weapons Performance.


For Capacitors... With Weapon Capacitor Overload, what I, as a Pilot, look for is Low Mass and GOOD output, and recharge. The most important stat for me, when trying to trick out my ship is... reduce the mass, and, RE'd wins out here every time.


Boosters are both Icing, AND a staple, for me. I'm not a top gun yet, I DON'T use my Boosters to their optimum (Helping me to punch through my turns at the precise moments, etc.) Though I have flown probably upwards of 20 hours Overt, I have yet to even see another Overt (Have not yet flown Overt in Kessel and, am not an Ace) let alone fought so much as a duel, so, Boosters are mostly about Mass for me. Mass and the Best overall stats I can get to go along with that. Burn Time, Recharge Rate, Acceleration and Speed are things I look at when Mass are not so much an issue but... I WILL throw in a crappy Booster that caps out at 500 Mass, if, that's all I have room for.


Engines... I'm collecting them. Each and Every Engine I've RE'd was cherry picked from a great many extras. High PYR is my Brass Ring here. Speed... that goes to the Crafted, but, for the manner in which I fly, PYR is everything to me, and, RE seems to have Crafted beat in that arena.



Reactors... for simplicity, Crafted beats out every reactor I've RE'd so far, hands down. While I can usually get a lower Mass, I've never come anywhere but somewhat close in terms of output. Reactor Overload can certainly help but, for ME, I will almost always simply go with a crafted Reactor, and pinch the Mass from somewhere else.


Droid Interfaces are a toss up, I generally use WEapon Overload, Engine Overload, WEapon Capacitor Overload, and, situationaly, Reactor Overload. Those are a wait between each command, and, you get into a routine as to how you Best implement them before combat. Weapon Capacitor to Shield Shunt... For myself, That is the only command I use where Droid speed really comes into play (and, only vs. outrageous odds). DI's drop often and, many are very decent, but, the benefit of holding onto these, Picking amoungst them to get just the right RE... the benefit is not as apparent vs. Crafted, in fact, crafted speeds are what I try and SHOOT for when REing these.




Shields and Armor, I'm on the fence. In my Greivous I'm flying with an RE'd Nym's reward Shiled, and loving it. My second pilot is flying with RE'd stuff, but, he's working up the tree and hasn't hit a Tier IV yet. Crafted Shields are generally very good. Very Middle of the road, from what I've seen of my own Loot (now, filling 5 houses, and, in need of dropping another). I use Crafted Shields as a Benchmark when REing. So far, I can often Beat them but, I won't RE unless I can.



Armor... Not every ship I fly has space for the Uberest Armor, some don't have space for any armor at all. Crafted is GOOD, but, I haven't seen it as the "Best". I can get decent values, with Low Mass from Loot, though, for me, Good Armor drops are almost as rare as Engine Drops.



Drop Rates;


*Rare -- Engines (Engines are Ultra Hoard Items)

*Semi-Rare -- Weapons,Armor, shields(Though it might not seem it, Weapons and Shields seem to drop with the next lowest rate after Engines, Armor after them)


*Common -- Capacitors, Reactors

*Ultra Common -- Boosters, Droid Interfaces



Current Projects
Storm Squad, A Midling Pilot's Diary

Tiimy -- Kauri Pilot 2x Master
Ashtirael
Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:25 am
#16

Nice post, Hew


I agree with most everything you say in the above, except the reactors.


While I use crafted reactors in my ships and they work perfect because I can craft them to fit anything at almost any energy generation I pretty much need. However, there are certain reactors of uber energy generation that shipwrights simplt cannot reach.


I believe there are 2 levels, seven and eight, but I forget the names, Rct-Z and something else, that give out 22k-60 (at least) energy generation. I have one with 22k, one with 32k and one at 43k while a buddy of mine has one re'd to around 58k energy gen.


While these aren't the kind of reactors I would use with just any ship, they work fantastic for running Engine OL4AND WeaponOL 4/


OrizCore
Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:54 am
#17




Jagged-F3l wrote:
Just for the record, as a Master Shipwright since the day JTL went live and during beta, I have RE'd very few components. In fact, after JTL went live, many shipwrights felt as though space loot was killing their sales. As a result, I sort of silently boycotted space loot by not RE'ing. I even refused to RE as a service. After some time, space loot and crafted components have come in line with each other. At this point, I can typically craft components better than most looted components my friends bring to me to look at.




Looted is always better than Crafted in many stats if the person who is providing the components. If a person RE's a capicator everytime the have 5 level 5 ones, then it will not be better. But I RE stuff and it is consistintly Better than anything a SW can Create. Our level 8 reward gun I REed down to 25k mass 1800 drain, 3800 damage, .670 effectiveness with a refire of .374. Any SW cant create anythign close to this. They can best the refire rate by a little bit but the mass will be 10k higher drain much higher and efectiveness .2 lower at least.



Pecosbill - Master Shipwright
Oriz Denotz - MBH, MCM

I do custom shipwright orders only ATM, mail or PM for info.

Vendors located at /way -797 -2691 Corelia
Please drop off any auction winnings at /way -1260 2515 on Dantoine
Jagged-F3l
Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:04 pm
#18




OrizCore wrote:




Jagged-F3l wrote:
Just for the record, as a Master Shipwright since the day JTL went live and during beta, I have RE'd very few components. In fact, after JTL went live, many shipwrights felt as though space loot was killing their sales. As a result, I sort of silently boycotted space loot by not RE'ing. I even refused to RE as a service. After some time, space loot and crafted components have come in line with each other. At this point, I can typically craft components better than most looted components my friends bring to me to look at.




Looted is always better than Crafted in many stats if the person who is providing the components. If a person RE's a capicator everytime the have 5 level 5 ones, then it will not be better. But I RE stuff and it is consistintly Better than anything a SW can Create. Our level 8 reward gun I REed down to 25k mass 1800 drain, 3800 damage, .670 effectiveness with a refire of .374. Any SW cant create anythign close to this. They can best the refire rate by a little bit but the mass will be 10k higher drain much higher and efectiveness .2 lower at least.





Whereas the damage is high, and the effectiveness is good, the refire rate is slow, and thus the overall DPS of this weapon is something a Shipwright can easily beat. In addition, for the mass we can make level 9 weapons with a DPS that would exceed this weapon's by over 60%.


Numbers can be deceiving. I know my components are better than just about anything that can be looted. My customers have come to know this too. I have gone as far as to make them a component for free to show them this fact, and they are never dissatisifed (to the point where they insist on paying me for the component).





010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101Jagged' Fel
010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101"The Oppressor"
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Yalton
Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:33 am
#19
Hew,
For PvE Re guns is best. For PvP were the ships take a lot fewer hits to kill it is crafted speed guns easily for the win. So what if it takes me 4-5 xtra hits to kill that NPC ship. In PvP it take 3 hits from my guns at most and 3 hits from you're gun. So the only diffrence is who is going to hit first and more often. With my crafted guns at .25 speed I can put 4 shots from each gun in to space while you can put out at best 3.5 a sec. If you're speed on an REed is below .33 that is good. My borstel is below a .32 now that it is REed. But it still is outperformed in PvP by the crafted guns I use. If yo're talking about boats and othe big targets it comes to DPS. With the refire rate I ahve with my guns I ahve a higher DPS then Iw ould using REed guns. I ahve yet to see or hear of a looted gun with a refire of less then .3 sec.

Reactors I use an REed. It ahs 18k mass roughly and a generation of roughly 25k. Haven't seen a crafted come close to that so far.

For the rest I agree with you.

In all my krayte with that reactor and the crafted guns is a great ship.
HewerofWood
Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:01 pm
#20

I searched out the Best Examples of what is currently available on Kauri for Crafted Lvl 7 and Lvl 9 Weapons. There were NONE that came in with a refire rate of under .325, those that were this low were very light on the damage.


Lvl 7 Advanced Blaster



  • Drain 2394

  • Mass 14555

  • Dmg 1513 - 2907

  • Vs. Shields .484

  • Vs. Armor .484

  • Energy P. 23.3

  • Refire Rate .352

  • Attacks per Second 2.84

  • Adjusted DPS Vs. S/A 2078 - 3993

  • Mass / Adjusted Dmg Ratio .142 - .274

Lvl 9 Experimental Blaster



  • Drain 2478

  • Mass 36517

  • Dmg 1725 - 3770

  • Vs. Shields .499

  • Vs. Armor .499

  • Energy P. 25.9

  • Refire Rate .353

  • Attacks Per Second 2.83

  • Adjusted DPS Vs. S/A 2433 - 5323

  • Mass / Adjusted Dmg Ratio .047 - .103


RE'd Lvl 8 Borstel Reward Weapon



  • Drain 2033

  • Mass 25980

  • Dmg 2506 - 3876

  • Vs. Shields.68

  • Vs. Armor .68

  • Energy P. 13.4

  • Refire Rate .382

  • Attacks Per Second 2.63

  • Adjusted DPS Vs. S/A 4481 - 6930

  • Mass / Adjusted DPS Ratio .172- .266


The Two examples used were Culled from All those capable of being Searched on Kauri. They represent the High End, though, eliminating the ultra low end weapons, they are indicative of what is being made by SW's for today's market. The DPS on the Crafted is just not there, particularly with the Lvl 9 Models, especially when you factor in it's Mass.


While the Mass / DMG ratio of the lvl 7 is slightly superior to the RE'd lvl 8, this comparison doesn't include examples of Well RE'd lvl 7 weapons, and, the DPS is still Thousands off.


While I am still new to both the ShipWright and the Pilot professions, to say that there are NO Crafted Weapons of these levels with refire rates approaching .25, I can say that they are not currently available to me, either to buy, or that I am capable of making. Nor do I see Crafted weapons touted as a viable alternative to RE'd ones. The Examples given by pilots Here, in this thread, are the first serious posts I've seen of such.




Current Projects
Storm Squad, A Midling Pilot's Diary

Tiimy -- Kauri Pilot 2x Master
Poul
Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:47 pm
#21


Maybe you just don't have any decent resource spawns on your server, but my high end crafted stuff has a speed in the .260 (refire rate) range, with damage in the 3800 range (max). And I'm not one of those uber +5billion experimention SEA people, just a straight MSW.

Message Edited by Poul on 07-12-2005 09:48 PM



Poul Moexit
Vendors at 810, -4800, just outside Cnet
Slysix
Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:04 pm
#22




HewerofWood wrote:


I searched out the Best Examples of what is currently available on Kauri for Crafted Lvl 7 and Lvl 9 Weapons. There were NONE that came in with a refire rate of under .325, those that were this low were very light on the damage.


**stuff deleted for brevity***


While the Mass / DMG ratio of the lvl 7 is slightly superior to the RE'd lvl 8, this comparison doesn't include examples of Well RE'd lvl 7 weapons, and, the DPS is still Thousands off.


While I am still new to both the ShipWright and the Pilot professions, to say that there are NO Crafted Weapons of these levels with refire rates approaching .25, I can say that they are not currently available to me, either to buy, or that I am capable of making. Nor do I see Crafted weapons touted as a viable alternative to RE'd ones. The Examples given by pilots Here, in this thread, are the first serious posts I've seen of such.




From what I'm seeing the components your using for the crafted stuff is maxed out for damage. Try to get a shipwright to make one with increased refire. The lvl 9's should easily reach below .260 refire.

Bucke-Thead
Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:18 pm
#23
Here are 2 crafted weapons I have on my vendor. I have followed your example.

Level 7:
Drain: 2396
Mass: 14717
Dmg: 1535-2555
vShield/Armour: 0.483
EPS: 26.8
Refire: 0.263
Attacks per Sec: 3.80
Adjusted dps v S/A: 2817-4689
Mass/ Adj Dmg: 0.191-0.319

Level 9:
Drain: 2499
Mass: 36415
Dmg: 1911-3331
v Shield/Armour .483
EPS: 29.6
Refire: 0.254
Attacks per Sec: 3.94
Adjusted dps v S/A: 3636-6339
Mass/ Adj Dmg: 0.1-0.174

Whilst my figures come out slightly nicer than yours, there is another thing you need to factor in....

The Mass on your LVL8 is almost double that of my LVL 7's. Try slapping in 2 LVL7 and see how much more damage you do. a single level 8 will not hit as often as 2 level 7's (in a grievous or JSF, firing 2 blasters at almost 4 times/sec, one of em usually hits).

When I fly my small fighters, I only use crafted Level 7 weapons as they perform much better, especially if they have 2 blaster points. The RE'd stuff sits better in larger ships such as POB or my Krayt gunship, but for 90% of my space flight I use crafted weapons.



= Bekah Cudet =
Master Shipwright +2 Engines, +2 Weapons systems
-1030 1200 Cultist Refuge, Dantooine
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HewerofWood
Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:15 am
#24
I have been looking, and I have managed to find some, much faster weapons, however, in my Heavy X wing, I am able to use Two RE'd Borstels, One fairly decent RE'd lvl 7, My RE'd lvl 8 Reward Shield (2555 HP) and Very Good armor. I'm currently collecting more lvl 8 Weapons for a Third RE'd Borstel.


In my Bel, I can fit my lvl 8, lvl 7 And my reward shield (minimal armor -- read, like 200 HP), and a decent DI / Booster, lvl 6 RE Engine, as well as a MK III Concussion Missile Launcher. I can fit the two Borstels in IF I drop the shield to my lvl 7 1600 HP one, Dump the nice DI in favor of a 400 Mass one, jettison the Missile launcher, and take a beating on the Booster (I have a 1200 Mass Booster with 1530 Max Energy, 21.6 Speed, and very good recharge / usage).



Current Projects
Storm Squad, A Midling Pilot's Diary

Tiimy -- Kauri Pilot 2x Master
Washell
Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:01 pm
#25

4 guns I own:


Level 7 RE'dBoltdriver
Drain: 1931.5
Mass: 14093.7
Dmg: 1986.7 - 3071.7
vs S/A: 0.620/0.630
EPS: 23.0
Refire: 0.310
Attacks/sec: 3.22
Adj. DPS vs S/A: 4005.5 - 6192.9
Mass/Adj. dmg: 0.284 - 0.439
Average dmg: 5099.1


Level 8 RE'd Tricannon
Drain: 1987.0
Mass: 22334.4
Dmg: 2507.0 - 3877.0
vs S/A: 0.690/0.690
EPS: 13.4
Refire: 0.370
Attacks/sec: 2.70
Adj. DPS vs S/A: 4675.2 - 7230.0
Mass/Adj. dmg: 0.209 - 0.323
Average dmg: 5952.6


Level 10 RE'd
Drain: 1842.4
Mass: 40735.0
Dmg: 2829.2 - 4740
vs S/A: 0.790 - 0.810
EPS: 27.2
Refire: 0.380
Attacks/sec: 2.63
Adj. DPS vs S/A: 5956.2 - 9978.9
Mass/Adj. dmg: 0.146 - 0.244
Average dmg: 7967.5


Level 9 crafted
Drain: 2474.9
Mass: 36614.0
Dmg: 1915.7 - 3338.7
vs S/A: 0.480/0.480
EPS: 29.5
Refire: 0.250
Attacks/sec: 4
Adj. DPS vs S/A: 3678.1 - 6410.3
Mass/Adj. dmg: 0.100 - 0.175
Average dmg: 5044.2


My RE'dL7 gun beats the L9 crafted by 55 points of average dmg, at roughly a third of the mass. A well RE'd gun will beat the SW's best effort. I do admit that RE'ing this quality of guns takes a big amount of time.

Ashtirael
Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:41 pm
#26
Hehe. I've always considered us shipwrights to be masters of the Dark Side of Component crafting.....Quicker, more seductive it is


While Reengineeringtakes quite a while to amass the best of parts, buttends to prove stronger in the long run.
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