Shipwright Archive
Thread: YPR Woes
Why would people want that huge YPR values?
My YT-1300 can almost turn on a dime with a 112.7 spd 62 YPR engine.
Rypht wrote:
Ok... something really needs to be done about YPR values being so low. Since engines are up to a decent speed, I'm getting flooded by people wanting engines that can turn, really turn... 70-75+ YPR values on a cert 7 engine is the neighborhood I'm hearing... yea I can maybe hit that onone axis... but don't plan on the engine doing much else.
Either raise the base value of engine YPR, make it so there are only 5 bubbles to possibly fill per axis of experimentation on a 99% possible engine (thus allowing full experimentation with our 15 points between the three values),make a single experimentation line, or give us a subcomponent that can give a pretty significant boost to overall YPR at the cost of energy drain (please don't weigh in on the speed).
I don't agree with anything you have written here.
First, why are players asking you for engines with higher YPR? If you stick a well crafted engine into ships intended to be highly maneuverable, then you're probably doing alright.
Second, I know this is a game, but I view the space-aspect of the game to be a simulation. In reality, you have to sacrifice speed for maneuverability (in accordance with Newton's lawes of motion).
Third, I absolutely oppose the combination of YPR experimentation tracks into a single track. This would greatly detract from the distinction of individually crafted engines. I have some customers that are die-hard pilot sim types, and they want me to experiment only on pitch and roll, because in reality, these are the axes used to maneuver most craft/ships (yaw is used for making fine adjustments to firing position). Others like other things; for example, I have one customer that like high pitch and thus wants all the points I can put into that stat.
Glad to see this has been so well received 
I guess this is the biggest problem, contrasting points of view.
I'm basing my issues off what my customers want. They want higher total coverage YPR. I understand what you're saying about the effect a forcing everything into a single line of experimentation would have on customization, but what if they added a combined line of experimentation and left the old lines still there, so you could do an overall boost, and if you wanted to spend extra points you could further tweak it on one axis or another. The speed is great,ya know, I'dbe fine with shaving a bit of speed off ifI could get consistantly high 60s low 70s on YPR stats on lvl 7 engines and above. Really we're only 5 or so points away from that currently, it just needs a bit of extra oomph. I don't see why we can't get a YPR boosting subcomponent added to the mix... even atthe cost of speed, just something else to be able to offer.
Now taking Jagged's input, I'll try making some two axis focused engines and offer a "test sample" so to say for some of my better customers, see what their thoughts are.
Its just hard when a customer comes to you and says, "Ok, this is the engine I am running now, how much can you improve upon it?" "I can make it faster, but its impossible for me to get those kind of YPR values" is not what they want to hear.
Rypht wrote:
Glad to see this has been so well received
I guess this is the biggest problem, contrasting points of view.
I'm basing my issues off what my customers want. They want higher total coverage YPR. I understand what you're saying about the effect a forcing everything into a single line of experimentation would have on customization, but what if they added a combined line of experimentation and left the old lines still there, so you could do an overall boost, and if you wanted to spend extra points you could further tweak it on one axis or another. The speed is great,ya know, I'dbe fine with shaving a bit of speed off ifI could get consistantly high 60s low 70s on YPR stats on lvl 7 engines and above. Really we're only 5 or so points away from that currently, it just needs a bit of extra oomph. I don't see why we can't get a YPR boosting subcomponent added to the mix... even atthe cost of speed, just something else to be able to offer.
Now taking Jagged's input, I'll try making some two axis focused engines and offer a "test sample" so to say for some of my better customers, see what their thoughts are.
Its just hard when a customer comes to you and says, "Ok, this is the engine I am running now, how much can you improve upon it?" "I can make it faster, but its impossible for me to get those kind of YPR values" is not what they want to hear.
With deference to your customers, understand that your average player will always request the ideal. However, at some point reality has to kick in. This is a game, and games have rules, and sometimes those rules impose constraints. I don't mind a customer that comes into my shop requesting a level 7 engine with a speed of 115 and a YPR of 70--doesn't hurt to ask. It is my job at that point to educate them as to what is possible. Sometimes I have to hear some flack about how their friend looted an engine that does this or that, and my response is simply, "Well, you need to get out there and start farming loot, if that is what you want, or you can let me make you something close that you can overload to your heart's content, because you can always come back and buy another." If after this they continue to complain, then I simply inform them that if they change their mind they can send me mail. If they persist, then I put them on ignore and eject them from my shop.
I cannot and will not tolerate the players in this game that think they can bend the devs to their will through incessant whining and crying and complaining that they are the ones paying $15/month and they deserve the change. Hogwash! This leniency is exactly what killed the ground game before the CU.
Let me put it to you another way. You ever receive customers that want you to craft a full complement of level 7 components for their A-wing or TIE Advanced? Of course you have, but I don't see you making requests to the devs to increase the mass of the A-wing and/or TIE Advanced, or to decrease the mass of level 7 components.
The customer can desire all they want. However, as the crafter, you have a job to educate your customers. A truly excellent shipwright understands not only how to craft find components, but how to use his knowledge of the components that he/she can craft to configure players ships in a way to squeeze every last ounce of capability out of them.
YPR is very important in pvp situations. After the initial approaches most pilots just start doin cirlces around each other till someone gets an edge and is able to shoot the other.... while these may not be the best dogfighting tactics they are still what most people do. To put the value of high YPR in perspective you have to keep this in mind. I fly 2 different pvp ships. One is an advanced- I have a looted lvl 8 108.9spd with high 7's and low 8's on YPR- this ship typically can outmanouver and destroy anything that tries to get around me. Just for fun when ROTW came out i decided i would take the jedi starfighter and take advantage of its tottally sick handling abilities. I used an Re'd lvl 10 engine. 96.1spd 9's across the board on YPR. While not being able to outrun all competition- nothing in this game can currently handle better. The sacrifice on the lvl10 is mass... but man is it fun to mess around with.
here's my point. if you are 1 of the 11 people in the whole game that actually pvp in space regularly no stat on your ship is more important than YPR.... period. once your close it doesn't matter how fast you are, how hard you shoot, how good you defenses are- none of that. all that matters is how well your ship can handle.
Iluvatar- Master Fencer/Master TKA/Imperial Ace Pilot/ Master Brawler/ Pikeman 4-3-4-0:
Rypht wrote:
Wow... just calm down and breath a minute. No need to get so damn worked up.
I would not say I am worked up. However, I am passionate about the space-aspect of this game, and don't wish to see it mucked up too much like the ground game became pre-CU (I am still reserving all comment on the CU).
Fact of the matter is that looted components still far outclass crafted engines in turning. I was
I don't agree with this statement. Yes, thereis stillexceptional loot that outclasses anything we can make--that includes all components. A friend of mine just looted a reactor this weekend that has a generation rate of 26K and only weights 23K. Another friend found a weapon that does 4400 damage and has a 0.39 refire rate. However, this is after months of finding nothing. I spend quite a bit of time in space and look at all the loot I get (although I sell it all to the chassis dealer), and over the last two months have notseen an engine that I would classify as "exceptional".
offering suggestions and hoping for dialog, not some nut going off on a tear because someone wants something changed. Your example of chassis sizes is a really bad example, because there's no relevance. Players cannot go out, blow stuff up, and find an A-wing chassis in the loot with an ungodly maximum mass. We're talking about two different things here.
The subcomponent issue I feel at least deserves dev commentary. Every other of our subcomponents manipulate the critical aspects of each component... why is it engines are the only ones that have speed+, and energy drain-, and nothing touching YPR? I'm not demanding anything here, I do think we've gone a step in the right direction, we just need another step to come inline with junk floating in space.
I like this idea--add an upgrade for maneuverability. However, all upgrades cost something. What stat do you sacrifice for maneuverability. In my opinion, it would have to be speed.
I am not a big fan of space loot at all. I have suggested several times since JTL went live alternatives to the current space loot. My favorite idea is the notion of a "power-up". Something that can be attached to a component by the player.
On a final note, no one's thrown around dollars spent per month, being owed respect, and adirect say in the game. That's an underlying issue you have to resolve on your own...outside of trashing other people's threads. Switch to decaf man...
I am not trashing your thread. I am conveying a response to your post. If you're not prepared to handle such responses, then maybe you shouldn't be posting. In my opinion, I am within the guidelines of our EULA.
Wompm wrote:
YPR is very important in pvp situations. After the initial approaches most pilots just start doin cirlces around each other till someone gets an edge and is able to shoot the other.... while these may not be the best dogfighting tactics they are still what most people do. To put the value of high YPR in perspective you have to keep this in mind. I fly 2 different pvp ships. One is an advanced- I have a looted lvl 8 108.9spd with high 7's and low 8's on YPR- this ship typically can outmanouver and destroy anything that tries to get around me. Just for fun when ROTW came out i decided i would take the jedi starfighter and take advantage of its tottally sick handling abilities. I used an Re'd lvl 10 engine. 96.1spd 9's across the board on YPR. While not being able to outrun all competition- nothing in this game can currently handle better. The sacrifice on the lvl10 is mass... but man is it fun to mess around with.
here's my point. if you are 1 of the 11 people in the whole game that actually pvp in space regularly no stat on your ship is more important than YPR.... period. once your close it doesn't matter how fast you are, how hard you shoot, how good you defenses are- none of that. all that matters is how well your ship can handle.