Shipwright Archive
Thread: Ship speed: shouldn't the ship mass affect this?
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certifiedandrew
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:06 pm
#1
I was doing some thinking. Force = mass * acceleration, so a greater force is required to move a bigass ship like a Y-wing at the same velocity as a Light Duty TIE. Currently, a 67 speed engine will move any and every ship at 67 speed. Are they telling me that the engine is capable of producing that much more force when in a huge ship, but it can't produce that same extra force while in a small ship?
Here's my thought. Strike it down or support it, just give me an opinion.
*The lightest of ships, like the TIE Light Duty and the Z95, should get 100% speed efficiency out of an engine, even at max mass. This Engine Efficiency would be displayed along with Mass and Energy on the main management screen.
*As ship mass increases, the engine efficiency should decrease. In other words, a Y-Wing with 30k mass on it should get, say, 85% speed efficiency (56.95 speed from the 67 speed engine), and a model with 150k mass should get 50% efficiency. We could use a scale that mimics reality, but then the hulking ships would move much too slowly, so we should give them a little room. The multiplayer ships should only suffer a 50% efficiency loss--at most.
*Ships like the A-Wing and TIE Interceptor are supposed to be extremely fast badasses. Right now, they're no faster than a hulking vessel equipped with an identical engine. Perhaps we could have an option to equip them with two engines. Of course, each engine would only get like 77% efficiency at max mass, but this would cause them to live up to their legends. Two 67 speed engines would result in 103.18 speed, but sacrifices would be made in accordance with mass. In other Star Wars literature and games, these ships are fast enough to outrun missiles, but have weak shields and their blasters aren't up to par with the X-wing, for example.
*Mark V engine speed needs to be increased, or perhaps a special Mark VI is in order, but restricted to Multiplayer vessels. Using kickass resources and subcomponents, I can currently make a Mark V that is only about 8 speeds faster than a Mark IV, but adds a ton of mass. Not many ships would be using these, and ships like the YT1300, Decimator, and Nova could certainly use the extra speed.
Comments, questions, ideas?
Here's my thought. Strike it down or support it, just give me an opinion.
*The lightest of ships, like the TIE Light Duty and the Z95, should get 100% speed efficiency out of an engine, even at max mass. This Engine Efficiency would be displayed along with Mass and Energy on the main management screen.
*As ship mass increases, the engine efficiency should decrease. In other words, a Y-Wing with 30k mass on it should get, say, 85% speed efficiency (56.95 speed from the 67 speed engine), and a model with 150k mass should get 50% efficiency. We could use a scale that mimics reality, but then the hulking ships would move much too slowly, so we should give them a little room. The multiplayer ships should only suffer a 50% efficiency loss--at most.
*Ships like the A-Wing and TIE Interceptor are supposed to be extremely fast badasses. Right now, they're no faster than a hulking vessel equipped with an identical engine. Perhaps we could have an option to equip them with two engines. Of course, each engine would only get like 77% efficiency at max mass, but this would cause them to live up to their legends. Two 67 speed engines would result in 103.18 speed, but sacrifices would be made in accordance with mass. In other Star Wars literature and games, these ships are fast enough to outrun missiles, but have weak shields and their blasters aren't up to par with the X-wing, for example.
*Mark V engine speed needs to be increased, or perhaps a special Mark VI is in order, but restricted to Multiplayer vessels. Using kickass resources and subcomponents, I can currently make a Mark V that is only about 8 speeds faster than a Mark IV, but adds a ton of mass. Not many ships would be using these, and ships like the YT1300, Decimator, and Nova could certainly use the extra speed.
Comments, questions, ideas?
Mithraw
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:25 pm
#2
as we are in space, with no atoms blocking/slowing down the ship anywhere that would help for old newtons axiom, the mass does not affect the speed at all
so long for the RL physics ^^
so long for the RL physics ^^
duncje
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:36 pm
#3
With no friction, there is no need for acceleration once you get to a set speed. No force is required to retain speed. However, it would take longer for a higher mass ship to reach top speed, and more force to maneuver the ship.
Anywho, something like this is already in the game. It is the "spdx" factor in SSSnuggles's FAQ that is stickied above (however, they are blank at the time, as he's waiting for info on it).
Malitevv
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:41 pm
#4
they attempt to model this in gamewith the way yaw and pitch works. the more massive ships yaw and pitch very innefficiently at high speeds. they are required to decelerate in order to yaw and/or pitch at their max rate. the lighter ships are able to yaw and pitch very easily at close to max speed. true. this is not the way the physics should really work. but it's a model that does convey the feel that lighter ships are agile and heavier ships are not so agile.
certifiedandrew
Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:00 pm
#5
I see. Good counterpoints. 
But don't you guys think that the A-Wing and Interceptor are awfully gimped compared to how they exist outside of SWG? Surely something regarding speed should be done so they can outperform others. 2 engines, perhaps?
But don't you guys think that the A-Wing and Interceptor are awfully gimped compared to how they exist outside of SWG? Surely something regarding speed should be done so they can outperform others. 2 engines, perhaps?
ajac09
Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:27 pm
#6
Their to small for 2 engines. I think the A-wing should be able to take special high performance engine same with the tie intercetpor since both of them were suppose to be designed for interceptor missions and tight g manuvers ( and yes thier is g's in space ) thier designed for more extreme speeds and manuverability.
PetaByte32
Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:50 am
#7
Dont know if this counts. But I have an engine I made that in an Interceptor the speed is 608 and in a Bomber its 552. So mass I think does affect engine ship speed.
Tyranus
psyanide
Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:42 am
#8
if you look at your engines pitch/roll/yaw ACCELERATION number, you'll notice that it changes depending on what ship it's installed in. sitting in your inventory, the engine will have, say 180 in each of these stats. but installed in a ship, they'll go up or down, affecting ship performance. in a z95 i believe all of these numbers shoot up to 600. in a y-wing, they're like 80/80/40. check it out.
WS-GodLike
Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:52 am
#9
ajac09 wrote:Their to small for 2 engines. I think the A-wing should be able to take special high performance engine same with the tie intercetpor since both of them were suppose to be designed for interceptor missions and tight g manuvers ( and yes thier is g's in space ) thier designed for more extreme speeds and manuverability.
How can there be G force in space when there is no gravity?
Weaponsmith111
Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:54 am
#10
actually there are atoms.... called interstellar dust matter 
but the amount that there..... about 20 million cubic kilomiters holds 1 gram of matter.... force is negligable
PetaByte32
Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:16 am
#11
WS-GodLike wrote:
ajac09 wrote:
Their to small for 2 engines. I think the A-wing should be able to take special high performance engine same with the tie intercetpor since both of them were suppose to be designed for interceptor missions and tight g manuvers ( and yes thier is g's in space ) thier designed for more extreme speeds and manuverability.
How can there be G force in space when there is no gravity?
Actually there is gravity in space. But its tiny compared to being in an atmosphere. Planets have gravity wells. Any large body can have them. Dont ask me how. I aint Stephen Hawking.
Tyranus
Message Edited by PetaByte32 on 11-05-2004 07:17 AM
psyanide
Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:25 am
#12
PetaByte32 wrote:
WS-GodLike wrote:
ajac09 wrote:Their to small for 2 engines. I think the A-wing should be able to take special high performance engine same with the tie intercetpor since both of them were suppose to be designed for interceptor missions and tight g manuvers ( and yes thier is g's in space ) thier designed for more extreme speeds and manuverability.
How can there be G force in space when there is no gravity?Actually there is gravity in space. But its tiny compared to being in an atmosphere. Planets have gravity wells. Any large body can have them. Dont ask me how. I aint Stephen Hawking.
Tyranus
Message Edited by PetaByte32 on 11-05-2004 07:17 AM
i think my prom date had a gravity well
styx66
Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:32 am
#13
hrmm...
G-Force, a term used loosely, doesnt require gravity. It's the effect of a change in direction that makes you experience what seems like gravity. A rapid change in direction in space will create G-Force. Hence the hypothetical (though would most certainly work)space station in 2001 that spun around its axis and created gravity for the interior that was along the inside of theouter edge.
As for the physics in the game...
No, mass shouldn't have an effect on your top speed, only your acceleration. F does equal MA, so yes accel is affected, but velocity is just the rate at which the engine (who's thrust dynamics are anyones best guess) can push off itselff in a forward direction, and should be the same for all ships once this rate is reached. Or maybe we're not using 'thrust' per se, and its some different mechanic all together, but that brings me to another interesting thought....
When your engine is blown off, why do you stop?
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