Scout Archive

Good morning,

Originally had this on the discussion forum but it got quickly eaten twice so I decided this is probably a much better place to post it so here goes.....

I read the test center update notes and they all sound great. I just have one concern about the group scouts harvesting multiple times on an animal. From the test center notes I'm assuming this is how it is going to work, please tell me if I'm wrong. If a group contains more than one Scout the animal is then flagged to be a multi harvested kill. I have no problem that it is reduced to 60% for groups that have multiple scouts that actually want to harvest a creature but what about the two or three man group in which you have one real scout working on advancing his skills and two dabblers that only took it to get Explore III and Terrain Negotiating +40??

In this scenario, you have group members that have no intention of wanting to harvest....they only dabbled in the scout profession so they didn't crawl like a worm up the side of a hill. What you are automatically doing to the true scout is lowering his experience gain by 40%. I would love to see one extra tweak done to this system that would opt the scout dabblers out of the system if they wanted to so if you have a three man group and only one true scout he can still advance at 100%. Maybe a /harvestoff command?

I can't see this type of command being abused at all. On an animal that could yield for instance 10 hide, 10 bone, and 10 meat theone true scout only gets10 units of either hide, bone, or meat. Compare this to the 6 hide, 6 bone, and 6 meat that three scouts could harvest for a total of 18 units harvested from that creature.

Something I just thought of and please tell me if I"m correct. If only one person is giving 'looting' rights does this automatically make them the only person that can also harvest? Anyway...just my two cents. Thank you for listening.

Sakarab, Ranger
Tempest

Sakarab,

You are not alone in your concerns. I have passed them along to the Devs.

However, I do want you all to recognize that the 60% system (without the ability to opt out) is vastly superior to the current system in place. Even without being able to have "scout dabblers" opt out, this will be a boon to us in general.

First of all, at this time, there are no incentives for Scouts to group up. We can kill and harvest more by ourselves than in any group - except of course when you are with close friends who know you need the XP and let you take all of the harvests. But those groupings are, unfortunately, rare for the young Scout who hasn't been playing the game very long.

The 60% system was not designed to be a means to quickly level a Scout. It was designed to remove an obstacle to Scouts joining groups and getting XP. And even if you happen to be in a group with some "Scout dabblers", you will still gain XP far faster than solo, because the creatures you can kill in a good sized group (even a three of four man group can make short work of a Fambaa or a Ronto) grant XP in far larger amounts than any group of creatures you could solo over time. The XP over time will be greater, which is what I believe is the concern here.

Yes, the 60% rule will kill off powerlevelling Scouts if it doesn't have an "opt out" command. But again, philosophically, I can't disagree with this. If your only goal is to get that next level, or get that new title, what happens when you finally get there? You get bored, lost and quit playing. Constantly having a goal to shoot for is part of what makes SWG a fun game. The 60% rule shouldn't massively increase the quickness in levelling, but it will make your hunts more profitable (more hide/bone/meat) and more fun (social interaction), while cutting down on griefing (ninja harvesters) and frustration due to poor leadership (crappy group leaders).

So even if we can't get an "opt-out" command, the 60% rule will be advantageous for all of us.

B

I agree with youDelta. I just hope they do include an opt-out for people like myself and my friends. I group with the same two people all the time (friends from work) and we all chose professions that complement eachother. I happen to be the only true scout of the group and they only took scout to get Explore III so they could keep up with me. They have no intention of going further in the scout tree (well, one may be becoming a Bio-Engineer....) so without an opt-out it really does make my progression slower. I know it's a great change to the scouts but I really don't want to see my professions (ranger and scout) get a 40% reduction in rewards because I play with the same group of friends 90% of the time.

I don't know about this. It seems to me that if we need more animal resources in game we should just boost the resources. I also don't understand why a group of scouts can't just alternate who gets to loot. I think this adds a complication for little real benefit. As far as helping newer scouts, I currently am trying to master and I need the apprentice xp, so I've been helping newer scouts gain from higher level creatures and such. I'm not sure such a change needs to be made.

Cephalo,

First of all, its not about the resources. It's about making Scouts viable in groups.

There's NOTHING so hard about "rotating the harvest". If you have a good group leader, a good group of players who are mature and work together well, then this works like clockwork. It is slow, but it works.

But here's the rub:

1.) You've got to have a good group leader.

2.) You've got to have mature players.

Not everyone who is playing this game is my age (26, going on 40) or mature enough to care about their reputation in-game and their relationships with others. They are focused solely on themselves, and really don't care if they "ninja harvest" and steal the XP. By the time the group leader (if he's competent) kicks them, they've already gotten what they were looking for, and they go find another group and do the same thing over again. There's little or no recourse against this - less than 5% of the people playing the game read these boards, so posting here doesn't do much. And unless they're willing to duel you, there's no way to stomp them into changing their behavior.

Scouts, thus, tend to eschew joining groups in order to raise their XP faster. This is a shame, because the whole point of MMORPGs is to be social. Being in a profession that makes it mutually exclusive to group and gain XP is contrary to the underlying purpose of the game.

And I'll be honest - while I consider myself to be a good group leader, there are many out there who think that being the group leader means they have to invite the other people in and that's where their responsibility ends. I hear on an almost daily basis from new people trying out for TMB or grouping with me for some quick XP that they have tons of fun with us (and me) because I'm organized and lead effectively. But there's no way to force a group leader to do that.

Adding the 60% in gives Scouts an incentive to join groups - the larger the group, the quicker the larger critters go down, to the point where the 60% is almost nullified. This gives Scouts a good way to make XP and gives them an incentive to quit being so anti-social.

It's a good idea, one that many Scouts (including myself) have worked hard to have implemented, and I am sure that once it gets in game you will wonder how you lived without it.

B

Actually, this system should make it a little easier to power level scouts. No one is suggesting that scouts should group to kill Nunas. Grouping should occur when hunting much larger game. So lets say your group goes out and kills 15 Mountain Squills. Lets say your grouped with one other scout, and your set to alternate harvests per your group leaders instructions. Lets also say, for simplicity, that each harvest would net 100 XP for a solo scout. With the new system, each scout would recieve 900 XP. With the old system one scout would've gotten 800XP while the other had 700XP. That is also assuming that each scout honestly harvested creatures during their individual turns.

Granted, if only one scout was allowed to harvest, he would've gotten 1500XP. While that may seem like a better solution, you actually bring more experience into the game if multiple scouts are in the group. In my example above, 1800XP was actually acquired from the 15 Squills. If you had 3 scouts, those same Squills would've been worth 2700XP, etc.

Well, not to be one that says, "I told yeah so" (well, okay I just did) but I saw this coming two weeks ago. Scouts want to be able to toggle this new system on or off. It can't be that difficult as a switch already exists (you can't harvest creatures until you learn Novice Scout so the switch is there). Give us the ability to turn the switch off now please.

Sak,

Whatare you saying "I told you so" for? You're the only one who has asked for this again.

In any event, the toggle will go on my list.

And Holy, the concern is more for the XP, than for the resources.

B

It's all over the Ranger boards....people want to be able to opt out of the system. It's not about getting 180% of the resources but losing 40% of the EXPERIENCE when you're the only true scout in the group. Now that you need 140,000 more scouting experience to get master ranger losing 40% when you're the only true 'scout' just hurts a little bit more.

Not that I care anymore....I'm now a 4-2-4-4 Ranger. I beat the xp changes thank goodness. Trained in Advanced Trapping IV last night at midnight.

Hang on a sec - isn't this actually a good thing in your scenario? Let's say that you're in a three-man group, all of you are at least one level of scout. Previously, you could only harvest the creature once. Let's say for 10 resources. Now, you can each harvest resources at 60% of the total. So each person gets 6 resources instead of 10.

All you have to do is convince the dabblers to go ahead and harvest, then give you the resources. You'll now be making 18 resources for each 10-resource creature. In other words, you've multiplied your productivity by 180%!!!

This is soooooo not a bad thing!

Here's another scenario for why it doesn't work:

I often go out with just one friend. He is a Medic/Rifleman/CH.

Did ya' catch the last one? Yeah. CH. He only has what Scout skillshe needed to get to CH. He doesn't harvest, doesn't trap, doesn't camp.

But now I lost 40% because he HAS to be a Scout to be a CH? So now, once again, it makes not sense for us to actually group. They go to great pains to MAKE us interact with each other, and then they don't think out stuff like this?

This game is SO backwards sometimes.

Here's another thing. If I'm grouping with my pet.. the group harvest code kicks in. I now get 40% less scout exp and resources than before.

And if I group with my Doc/CM buddie...who isn't a scout AT ALL.. it still kicks in. He now get 40% less resources to make his stims.

I love the concept... wish we had it when I was slogging through my scouting exp. But we really need a way to toggle it off. Or at a minimum.. it should only kick in when there are more than one SCOUT.

No... someone NOT the leader shouldn't be able to make the decision. What will happen this is Scouts will remain in the group to get the other benefits (weapon/combat/etc.), but will opt-out, and then the ninja-harvests will start again.

It simply needs to be a GROUP command by the group leader. IT can simply be turned on/off by them. Because even if there ARE more than one scout in a group, they don't always want to harvest. For instance CH's sometimes are scouts, only so they can be CH's.