Scout Archive

I know some (if not all) of this has probably (definitely) already been posted on here, in this Scout section even, but I'm just not going to look through ALL the pages of ALL the threads here, so here goes:

My suggestions (all based, I think, on common sense) for modifications/changes for XP's for Scouts (and subsequently to Rangers as well):

1) Fishing, Foraging, and Camping should all give Wilderness Survival XP (leading up the Survival tree of Scout) - it just makes sense. It doesn't have to be a LOT of XP for fishing and foraging, but if you're going to put an in-depth multi-step game mechanic, like the fishing process, into the game, you should at least give people a reason to use it (besides the 1-5 units of fish and the 1-5 units of chum bait they get out of it). Also, it would help alleviate some of the BOOOORING camp time that's spent JUST to get those Wilderness Survival XP by a) giving something to do during that time (foraging that's worthwhile), and b) every XP accumulated this way is one you don't have to accumulate through camping only.

2) Trapping seems fine to me, as is.

3) Scouting XP should go away and be replaced by Hunting XP and Exploring XP (for each of the respective "trees" of the Scout chart. "Hunting XP" would be gained by harvesting creature kills. "Exploring XP" would be gained by, imagine this, EXPLORING! I know, I know, it's a crazy concept, but it might just make sense if you think about it. There is already some kind of an invisible barrier around the various cities in the game and this can be used to determine the "Exploring XP" accumulation. You've all seen it before - the notice of "You are now leaving CITY NAME." Therefore, the Devs should just institute an "odometer", if you will, that records the number of meters of travel for a character OUTSIDE of the city (i.e. after you've "left" the city limits/departed through the city barrier). Then "Exploring XP" should be given based on your exploring (travels). That way, you wouldn't have some "Urban Ranger" who gained all of his Scouting XP by killing and harvesting the minor creatures on the city's edge and has practically NEVER traveled for any extensive time out to the wild (other than finding a spot to set up his camps and parking there). This would also give a lot of people incentive to actually explore a lot of the remote areas of the worlds instead of just going to and from mission locations and cities. I'm not sure, but I think it'd be a relatively simple concept to implement considering all of the distance measurements that are already being used throughout the game (range to creature, range to mission waypoint, etc).

Just my 2 creds... (Input is welcome).

Thanks,

Malborka

Aspiring Ranger, Talus/Endor, Tarquinas Server

i concur :]

Is there any way to get general scouting experience OTHER than just skinning animals? I am kinda frustrated by this seeing as I am advancing in every other tree almost 3 times as fast as I am in scout.

I agree 100%. Scouts should be renamed creature killers, because bascially that is all you do. Here is a typical scouting day for me:

Kill mobs using traps & rifle/Harvest - Camp..... Followed by more killing. KILL KILL KILL!! I can't say that this is what I imagined it would be. Trapping XP is fine and that is probably the thing that I enjoy most about the profession. But they really need to rethink the other three branches. I remember the first day I was online and being a total noob, I thought "Cool, I can get some XP by just cruising around and checking out the wildlife!" So I go running around like a total idiot thinking this is great and the points "must" accumulate after I have logged off to determine how much ground I have covered. Imagine my surpise when I logged back on and found out that I got squat for it. I was even entertaining the idea of fishing until I found out the I'm not going to get anything for it; that makes it about as much fun as camp grinding!

Anyway, I'm not going to give up scouting... I still have aspiring hopes to be a hippie Ranger/CH Wookie living off the land with only my wits and bowcaster (pass the granola please.) But maybe they can make the profession a little more interesting so that average joe players like myself can enjoy it more and feel less like some power-grinder (no offense.)

Well, I'm glad to see I'm not alone here. I actually was excited when I first saw all the things the devs had put in the game for those of us aspiring for master scouts/master rangers. I thought, "How cool! I can even fish?" Only to have my enthusiasm dampened when I realized that for all the time it took to do it, I ended up with nothing really substantial to show for it (not even meager XP's). The same goes for foraging. I mean, yeah, you can get some kinda interesting stuff by foraging, but nobody wants to buy it in one-sies and two-sies, so now you're stuck either giving it away, or stockpiling all the different types of goods until you accrue a sellable amount (which takes forever at that rate).

Anyway, I just felt that I had to post this suggestion more for the Role-Playing purpose than anything else. I'm not a powergamer or anything, and I'm not asking for rapid XP progression. But if something just makes sense, then there's no reason not to do it that way, you know? I mean, I can't see that fishing/foraging XP's, or even Exploring XP's, are going to make Scouts/Rangers soooo easy or tough that it would be a game balance issue, so why not?

Besides, also from a Role-Playing aspect, don't you think that if you met a Master Ranger in the cantina of whatever town, he should have some very interesting stories to tell about all the various places he's been and seen? The many planets and different terrains? The hidden places he's found and explored? Not just the million or so Fynocks or Paralopes(Talus) he's skinned?

2 creds, resubmitted...

Malborka

Aspiring Ranger, Talus/Endor, Tarquinas Server

I also am against--So Much--harvesting. Number one, I wanted this profession (unknowing to the requirements, prior) because I love animals and thought I could finally have a profession, in a game, that didn't require more killing--wrong. But the main thing is that, while in RL, a Animal Trainer doesn't have to go through Veterinary school to train, they also don't kill to train. Picking one or the other I would say that a Veterinary line (tied to the Medic profession) would really make more since as you help animals instead of kill them. The "skinning" aspect is necessary in a Scout profession so some Resource harvesting would be required--but not 2 Trees of it, please.

This post will all be for naught for myself soon--YEA!--but for others who aren't into killing and/or monotonous harvesting, I just wanted to also put my 2 cr in.

I also concur with the fishing, foraging idea. It really would make it way more fun and interesting to do the things Scouts/Rangers do all the time, not just focus on shoot/harvest, shoot/harvest, shoot/harvest for what some 70,000 points? ugggh. I also think Explore should require some terrain work in other actual terrains. Trapping is fine. I don't have too much of a prob with the camping line as I do crafting at that time; but being able to get points fishing and better stuff foraging at that time would make it a much more enjoyable, realistic experience-yes.

Happy Scouting

Malborka,

I like all your ideas. I would like to add something to your exploring XP idea. I see a potential exploit and a possible solution too it, just not sure if I can explain it. :-)

If each PC had an "odometer" all they'd have to do is walk back and forth between two nearby cities. Maybe even making it worth their "while" by doing delivery missions on foot (something I do a lot anyway, but for fun, plus, my RAM is so low that I have more fun walking ig than twiddling my thumbs IRL).

Considering what I think you're trying to get at (i.e. PC scouts going to remote places), I think there should be some kind of log on PCs instead of an odometer. The log would differentiate between "explored" and "unexplored" areas. This could be manifested in percent of explored areas per planet or maybe every section of land has an explored or unexplored flag, "explored" obviously being activated upon one's first visit to that section of territory. If this idea was implemented, I'd like to add that I think you shouldn't have to explore EVERY planet FULLY to become a Master Scout (or Master Ranger either if it goes this way, too). Ambitious people can do that if they want, but if you think about it, being a Master Scout (or Ranger) shouldn't require (that much) space travel.

All this info and tracking could be "behind the scenes" or visually represented for each player's information. Either way, I don't care. I think good forms of representation would be a tab on the map (Ctrl+V or Ctrl+M, take your pick) highlighting areas (un)explored (if the sections of land idea is a go) or maybe adding a tab to the Character Sheet showing the percent of (un)explored terrain for each planet (if the percentage idea is a go).

Again, I like your ideas, I just thought I'd offer some positive feedback.

Maybe this should be mirrored on to the development forum as well. You think?

Just Nick
Nikrae Kieff
Zabrak Scout
Valcyn Galaxy

Mal,

I've incorporated some of your ideas into my list for this week. Thanks for posting this thread!

B

Hey, thanks for the input.

I had thought of that alternative to the "odometer" idea as well, but the reason I didn't stick with it was because of the "targeted number of (or amount of) explored areas in order to achieve different skill levels" thing. Basically, I also didn't want to force a potential Master Scout or Master Ranger to have to utilize space travel, when it's just as conceivable that one could be a Master Ranger/Scout while staying on one planet and just exploring it. However, I also realize that both ways could be exploited, but how is that different than macro-surveying or macro-camping now? I know they aren't listed technically as "exploits", but I mean, if someone wants to exploit the game, they can usually find a way.

The only question that comes to mind now about each of the three manners of "Exploration XP" (or exploration goals, if you will) is should non-scouts/rangers accumulate those "odometer miles"/explored areas or percentages as well, because they too are traveling to these places? If the answer is yes, then whichever method is used, the character doesn't have to be a scout/ranger but would be able to accumulate the "mileage" (or checked off explored areas) during the course of their surveying, missions, normal travels, etc... and then would be able to jump into Novice Scout and rocket their way through the Chart. The only way to alleviate that, would be the same way they do it now, which is to require that you learn a skill, then start your accumulation over again, I guess, in order to work toward the next skill level.

Just ideas...But, I like the suggestion.

Thanks,

Malborka

Aspiring Ranger, Talus/Endor, Tarquinas Server

Cool, thanks for taking the time to read and consider the thoughts/ideas. As I'm sure you already know, there are a lot of people who seem to be pretty passionate about not only the Star Wars environment (die-hard, immersive role-player types, like myself) but also the Star Wars Galaxies game (I'm hopelessly addicted and probably bordering on needing therapy). Therefore, I'm sure you'll see tons and tons of different ideas on these posts -some good, some not so good. I, for one though, appreciate the time you take reviewing all of these posts (suggestions and rants alike), and I can't wait to see the results of your diligence and hard work.

Thanks again.

Malborka

Aspiring Ranger, Talus/Endor, Tarquinas Server

Just Nick,

Upon further review, I'm thinking of perhaps an Exploration XP accumulation method that might go something like this (please review and give me your thoughts on it):

In order to accumulate Exploration XP's for the Exploration (Scout) and Wayfaring (Ranger) trees, the Scout/Ranger would have to accrue a certain amount of mileage (or "meter"-age, I guess would be the most appropriate term) OUTSIDE of city limits (the invisible barrier surrounding the cities). In addition, the acquisition of the Skill Boxes on the Skill Tree Branch from the profession chart could require that the Scout/Ranger have "checked off" a certain number of "Region" boxes, I guess. The planet map could have an overlay for divided regions as an option on the right side (where the notable places are now). The Scout/Ranger would basically be required to at least be just inside a new Region (which could be a pop-up notification just like the "You are now entering CITY NAME" thing) and then he/she would have to accrue a certain amount of "meter"-age within that Region in order to qualify as having "explored" it. I realize that the individual could then go just inside the new Region and just go back and forth to accumulate the "meter"-age, but this system would at least force them to go to different Regions in order to progress up the skill tree and it could be made so that one can accrue enough "checked Region boxes" on one planet (thus being a Master Scout/Ranger of Naboo, for example) or, should they choose not to have to travel too far from the cities, they could accrue the different Region boxes by only exploring (and thus "checking off" Region boxes for) Regions surrounding cities, but they'd have to travel to other planets then to accrue enough Region boxes for progression.

I think this idea, while hopefully not being TOO convoluted and difficult to program, would serve to realistically portray the development of the Exploration and Wayfaring skills and would basically result in two type of Scouts/Rangers - the expert Scout/Ranger who specializes in all terrains/regions on one planet, and the planet-hopping Scout/Ranger who accrued his skills by being exposed to the wide variety of terrains/regions that the different planets provide.

I don't know, but I think both would be pretty cool from a Role-Playing perspective and at least for now, this seems like a pretty interesting and realistic method for handling this situation (as long as it's not too difficult to program of course).

What do you all think?

Malborka

Aspiring Ranger, Talus/Endor, Tarquinas Server

Mal,

Those are some good ideas. I was thinking something along the samelines. I was toying around with the idea that there are a multitude of "special", unique sights in the game. In Naboo, for example, you've got ruins in lots of places, the Emperor's Retreat, the Lianorm Swamp and other places that can be quite difficult to get to, if you aren't careful. I wonder if it would be possible to give Scoutnig XP for visiting those locations - discovering a new ruin, finding a dungeon, or visiting a POI could all have varying levels of XP, based on the difficulty it takes to get there. Finding an Ewok village on Endor would be a lot harder - and thus give a lot more XP - than finding a Gungan ruin on Naboo.

Just an idea.

B

Delta,

No, that sounds good too, but the only thing I'd consider is to make sure these sites basically only give exploration xp bonuses, and aren't requirements that need to be checked off for progression, you know?

I'd hate to become a very knowledgable scout/ranger for my home planet, but be forced to travel to somewhere else in order to satisfy the "you must have explored this many unique sites" requirement, when my planet may not have but a couple of unique sites, you know?

But, if going to those sites gave you XP bonuses, that'd be nice, yes.

Oh, another thought I just had - this Unique Site idea has me thinking now - Would it be possible, since Scouts/Rangers should be the perfect guides as well for people who want to get to the unique places, to have a way to "store" the maps of some of these places (kinda like schematics, I guess) in our datapads? That way, when you go and explore one of these places, you acquire a map (like any good scout) and can look at it at a later time, even if you aren't at the location (which is the only way I know of to be able to see the map of a location now). Those maps, and the waypoints to those locations, would also be items that a good scout would have and be able to sell as a commodity to interested parties in town. This would especially be useful if there was some kind of mechanic implemented to allow a player to make annotations on these location maps. That way, if there were hidden items or locations (hidden doors to secret areas, for example), then the scout could explore, find these things, annotate them on his map in his datapad, and sell the map later in town to others. This map annotation function would also help regular folks (non-scouts) find the elite profession trainers again when they go into town, and things like that. Just an idea.

Thanks again for the consideration and the readings.

Malborka

Aspiring Ranger, Talus/Endor, Tarquinas Server