Scout Archive
Thread: Brainstorming: Making Camping more Attractive
As it is currently, camps are useful in the following situations, and in the following frequencies (in my experience):
- To (re)call pet(s); disbanded immediately (most frequent - 95% of my camps).
- To grind Survival XP (frequent, until mastered, then not at all).
- To auto-heal minor wounds when soloing (somewhat frequent - the other 5%).
- Used in large group hunts far from civilization for healing (fairly rare).
- Camping for role-playing/social purposes (rare).
- Show off Ranger camps (very rare - only a few times per Ranger)
- Used when AFK to repel aggressive creatures (N/A, that feature is reportedly broken).
- Other (so rare I can't think of any)
Prompted by a thread on another forum discussing camping, I started to think of ways to make camps attractive as more than just a 15-second throwaway so a pet can be called, or a necessary grind to make it to Master Scout. Here's what I came up with:
- Give camps and medical droids stacking healing powers. Currently, camps and medical droids grant the exact same healing properties. This is redundant: you have to drop a camp to call a medical droid, but once you drop the camp you don't need the medical droid. Camps do auto-heal over time, but again, anyone using a medical droid is a Medic, and can heal wounds him or herself. So, how about giving camps and medical droids stackable benefits? Sure, you can call your medical droid in the wilds without a camp, but impose healing penalties - make the healingmuchless effective than it is in cities or camps, and maybe even deal a little mind damage to the healer (like /tendWound). Want to heal faster? Better have a Scout with you. Want a dancer to heal the mind damage the group Doc has gotten from healing outside of camps so much? Better have a Scout with you. Conversely, camps without a Medic with a droid would still auto-heal as they do now, but would obviously be far less efficient than having both.
- Fix camps so that they actually do repel aggressive creatures. 'Nuff said.
- Grant Rangers the ability to craft camps that Merchants could use to place temporary vendors. Might not be used that much if implemented, but wouldn't this be kind of cool? Merchants could travel place to place to test different market demand, or to follow a current trend (e.g. around the spawn-camp flavor of the month) without having to spend all the effort of placing a building, or to allow temporary one-stop shopping on no-build adventure planets. Rangers could craft these tents and sell them to Merchants; the tent would last a certain amount of time (depending upon the Survival skill of the Ranger and the Decay Resistance of the materials used), maybe afew days, max, and thendisappear (returning vendor and all goods to the Merchant,of course). Rangers get more useful as well, and get another potential source of income.
- Food tastes better (i.e. buffs better) in a camp. S'mores, anyone? Seriously, this would enhance Chef somewhat (and boy, do they need it), create a nice role-playing environment on group hunts ("Pass the Bantha dogs, that piket took a lot out of me"), and allow Scouts (soloing and grouping alike) the ability to buff somewhat without a Master Doc on hand. (This assumes that food is eventually made more useful, like increasing the duration to 15+ minutes and increasing the enhancements to somewhere in the neighborhood of 50% of Doctor/Entertainer buffs).
- Sub-proposal based on the above food idea: Hungry, in a camp, but nothing to eat? Let's make foraging and fishing mean something. Scouts get very basic food schematics in their datapads, and the ingredients would all be smallish units of meats & hides, small units of fish (i.e., just one fish caught), along with single units of the stuff we can find foraging. These MRE-quality foodstuffs could only beconsumed in camps, and would not be nearly as effective as Chef foods (again, this assume buffs to Chef. I'm thinking that Scout & Ranger-cooked rations would be about of the potency and duration of the best Chef goods now).
- Entertainers can heal Battle Fatigue in camps. This was apparently originally going to be implemented, but was removed. I don't see what it could hurt; no one's going to abandon cantinas because there might be a dancer in a camp somewhere nearby. I've rarely been grouped with an Entertainer when in hunting parties, so it would just be something nice for well-organized excursions to adventure (no-build) planets that bring an Entertainer along.
- Give Master Rangers a schematic for a "foxhole" camp. A logical combination of the /conceal and Survival branches available only to Master Rangers, the foxhole is a single-person camp that, when deployed by a Ranger also using /conceal, renders the Ranger invisible on other players' radar until the Ranger initiates combat, or is detected by a player who makes a luck roll, perhapsusing the Alertness mod (which currently doesn't do anything that I know of, so this would kill two birds with one stone). This would be an awesome benefit for Rangers engaged in GCW PvP, and would alsodelay response times whenused against NPCs. A Rifleman/Ranger, /concealed,in a Foxhole camp, and using /concealShot would be darn near invisible.
Let me know your thoughts on one or all of these ideas, or post your own thoughts on how to make camping cooler!
As it is currently, camps are useful in the following situations, and in the following frequencies (in my experience):
- To (re)call pet(s); disbanded immediately (most frequent - 95% of my camps).
- To grind Survival XP (frequent, until mastered, then not at all).
- To auto-heal minor wounds when soloing (somewhat frequent - the other 5%).
- Used in large group hunts far from civilization for healing (fairly rare).
- Camping for role-playing/social purposes (rare).
- Show off Ranger camps (very rare - only a few times per Ranger)
- Used when AFK to repel aggressive creatures (N/A, that feature is reportedly broken).
- Other (so rare I can't think of any)
Prompted by a thread on another forum discussing camping, I started to think of ways to make camps attractive as more than just a 15-second throwaway so a pet can be called, or a necessary grind to make it to Master Scout. Here's what I came up with:
- Give camps and medical droids stacking healing powers. Currently, camps and medical droids grant the exact same healing properties. This is redundant: you have to drop a camp to call a medical droid, but once you drop the camp you don't need the medical droid. Camps do auto-heal over time, but again, anyone using a medical droid is a Medic, and can heal wounds him or herself. So, how about giving camps and medical droids stackable benefits? Sure, you can call your medical droid in the wilds without a camp, but impose healing penalties - make the healingmuchless effective than it is in cities or camps, and maybe even deal a little mind damage to the healer (like /tendWound). Want to heal faster? Better have a Scout with you. Want a dancer to heal the mind damage the group Doc has gotten from healing outside of camps so much? Better have a Scout with you. Conversely, camps without a Medic with a droid would still auto-heal as they do now, but would obviously be far less efficient than having both.
- Fix camps so that they actually do repel aggressive creatures. 'Nuff said.
- Grant Rangers the ability to craft camps that Merchants could use to place temporary vendors. Might not be used that much if implemented, but wouldn't this be kind of cool? Merchants could travel place to place to test different market demand, or to follow a current trend (e.g. around the spawn-camp flavor of the month) without having to spend all the effort of placing a building, or to allow temporary one-stop shopping on no-build adventure planets. Rangers could craft these tents and sell them to Merchants; the tent would last a certain amount of time (depending upon the Survival skill of the Ranger and the Decay Resistance of the materials used), maybe afew days, max, and thendisappear (returning vendor and all goods to the Merchant,of course). Rangers get more useful as well, and get another potential source of income. *this is sort ofmentioned in the Rangercorrespondent's "State of the Profession" post, I just saw. However, the version mentioned there is suggested as unbuildable on adventure planets, while I think that would be the one type of place that makeshift, temporary vendors would be the most beneficient*
- Food tastes better (i.e. buffs better) in a camp. S'mores, anyone? Seriously, this would enhance Chef somewhat (and boy, do they need it), create a nice role-playing environment on group hunts ("Pass the Bantha dogs, that piket took a lot out of me"), and allow Scouts (soloing and grouping alike) the ability to buff somewhat without a Master Doc on hand. (This assumes that food is eventually made more useful, like increasing the duration to 15+ minutes and increasing the enhancements to somewhere in the neighborhood of 50% of Doctor/Entertainer buffs).
- Sub-proposal based on the above food idea: Hungry, in a camp, but nothing to eat? Let's make foraging and fishing mean something. Scouts get very basic food schematics in their datapads, and the ingredients would all be smallish units of meats & hides, small units of fish (i.e., just one fish caught), along with single units of the stuff we can find foraging. These MRE-quality foodstuffs could only beconsumed in camps, and would not be nearly as effective as Chef foods (again, this assume buffs to Chef. I'm thinking that Scout & Ranger-cooked rations would be about of the potency and duration of the best Chef goods now).
- Entertainers can heal Battle Fatigue in camps. This was apparently originally going to be implemented, but was removed. I don't see what it could hurt; no one's going to abandon cantinas because there might be a dancer in a camp somewhere nearby. I've rarely been grouped with an Entertainer when in hunting parties, so it would just be something nice for well-organized excursions to adventure (no-build) planets that bring an Entertainer along.
- Give Master Rangers a schematic for a "foxhole" camp. A logical combination of the /conceal and Survival branches available only to Master Rangers, the foxhole is a single-person camp that, when deployed by a Ranger also using /conceal, renders the Ranger invisible on other players' radar until the Ranger initiates combat, or is detected by a player who makes a luck roll, perhapsusing the Alertness mod (which currently doesn't do anything that I know of, so this would kill two birds with one stone). This would be an awesome benefit for Rangers engaged in GCW PvP, and would alsodelay response times whenused against NPCs. A Rifleman/Ranger, /concealed,in a Foxhole camp, and using /concealShot would be darn near invisible.
Let me know your thoughts on one or all of these ideas, or post your own thoughts on how to make camping cooler! Also, check out Nraas'stickied "State of the Profession (Dec. 5)" thread at the top of this forum, it has some other camping ideas under the "Wishlist" heading.
* Be able to play small games like chess-like games inside camps. Like the game that is on the table in high-tech camp.
Very nice post... Here is my retort:
"Currently, camps and medical droids grant the exact same healing properties."
That would be nice indeed, but a boost of that sort would be horribly unbalancing, considering the sheer size of a Doctor buff already...
- If such a move were made, most likely the buff size available to only Droid users would be decreased to make room for a camp improvement, and the Doctors would probably beat our craniums in with a rubber hammer.
"Grant Rangers the ability to craft camps that Merchants could use to place temporary vendors."
TheHunting Cabin proposal suggests a permanent structure that was meant to circumvent the Adventure planets no-build zones...
- Since the advent of Player Cities, those restrictions have been loosened considerably making the Cabinrequest rather pointless.
Beyond that request, I have tried to stay out of the perview of the Architect, whose sole existence is to build permanent structures.
As for the vendor, they would not be suited to a temporary structure which could vanish without notice, taking all the vendor items along with it.
"Seriously, this would enhance Chef somewhat"
I wouldn't worry about Chefs...
- I have seen some of the stuff coming down the line for that profession (as GreenMarine has kindly shared his ideas with the Corr.), andthey are delicious indeed.
I do like the idea of improved food buffs in camp though, and I will add it to the list. 
"Let's make foraging and fishing mean something. Scouts get very basic food schematics in their datapads"
I believe that would indeed encroach too far into Chef territory...
- If a player wishes to cook up some food and be a Ranger, they can pick up Artisan for some schematics.
Anyways, we do have the /forage goodies, even if they don't have much duration.
"Entertainers can heal Battle Fatigue in camps."
This one we all seem to agree on, in principle... And already has a listing in the SotP.
"Give Master Rangers a schematic for a "foxhole" camp."
From the sounds of it,the Hunting Blind proposal described in the Holocron post at the top of the forum might fit this bill.
As for the name Foxhole, I believe that one should be left to our brethren, the Squad Leader...
- The SL also derives from the Scout Survival branch and are entitled to some camps of their own.
Of course, they have a different idea about how to utilize the name Foxhole, more related to Defensive bonuses and such, rather than Stealth.
"Like the game that is on the table in high-tech camp."
A request to play Dejarik is in the list...
- Though I have no clue as to whether it will ever come to fruition.
Snoop,
You've got a bunch of good ideas in there - some of which we are already fighting for, like fixing the repelling bug and the BF in camps issue (although that's likely never going to happen).
I'll add your requests to my State of the Profession wish lists - at least, the Scout portions. The Ranger portions are best left to N'Raas.
B
"The Ranger portions are best left to N'Raas."
My responses are on Snoopacca's cross post in the Ranger forum.
Re: Brainstorming: Making Camping more Attractive
"Still, it doesn't hurt anything to throw ideas out there, right?"
Never hurts... Keep 'em coming.
I'm probably in the minority, but I would like to be able to fish from camp without having to place my camp underwater. Either get rid of the dead area around a camp or expand the camp's area to include all affected terrain (terrain that is leveled off to place the camp)
Well all the ideas were interesting however i would just like to see a long standing issue fixed. Make the ranger camps actually repel animals and perhaps make the advanced camps defensive or sealable
i think the best idea is the fox hole thing. that would be really kool.
"Currently, camps and medical droids grant the exact same healing properties."
That would be nice indeed, but a boost of that sort would be horribly unbalancing, considering the sheer size of a Doctor buff already...
- If such a move were made, most likely the buff size available to only Droid users would be decreased to make room for a camp improvement, and the Doctors would probably beat our craniums in with a rubber hammer.
On this point, I didn't intend to suggest that a Doctor should be most effective when in a camp with a droid; I was always under the impression that the medical professions were supposed to be most effective when in a medical center, with a medical droid. A Doctor ina campsite with a droid should be slightly less effective than a Doctor in a med center or city, but significantly more effective than a Doctor outside of a city, without a camp. I suppose this would be considered a "nerfing" of Doctor abilities, but for one thing, I've never been buffed outside of a city (and I seek buffs all the time), and for another, allowing a Doctor to be at maximum effectiveness anywhere and everywhere with just a droid seems gratuituous and doesn't make sense (tantamount to suggesting that a surgeon with just an advanced first aid kit is just as effective as a surgeon in a fully-stocked hospital).
"Seriously, this would enhance Chef somewhat"
I wouldn't worry about Chefs...
- I have seen some of the stuff coming down the line for that profession (as GreenMarine has kindly shared his ideas with the Corr.), andthey are delicious indeed.
I do like the idea of improved food buffs in camp though, and I will add it to the list.
To clarify,I didn't intend to suggest that food should be most effective when consumed in a camp. I think food should fall into the same effectiveness pattern as I suggested for healing:
Outside, no camp < Outside, camped (based on healing modifier) < Outside, in a city < Outside, in a city, in a cantina (for food) / med center (for healing)
Creating an in-between would help create the makeshift home-away-from-home feeling that camps are supposed to give. And I certainly didn't mean to suggest that camps should be improved just to throw a bone to Chefs
"Let's make foraging and fishing mean something. Scouts get very basic food schematics in their datapads"
I believe that would indeed encroach too far into Chef territory...
- If a player wishes to cook up some food and be a Ranger, they can pick up Artisan for some schematics.
Anyways, we do have the /forage goodies, even if they don't have much duration.
Respectfully stand my ground on this one
"Give Master Rangers a schematic for a "foxhole" camp."
From the sounds of it,the Hunting Blind proposal described in the Holocron post at the top of the forum might fit this bill.
As for the name Foxhole, I believe that one should be left to our brethren, the Squad Leader...
- The SL also derives from the Scout Survival branch and are entitled to some camps of their own.
Of course, they have a different idea about how to utilize the name Foxhole, more related to Defensive bonuses and such, rather than Stealth.
/agree with you on this one on all fronts. Hunting Blind sounds awesome, and a combat-themed camp for Squad Leaders does make more sense than for Rangers.
Thanks for your time!
"I was always under the impression that the medical professions were supposed to be most effective when in a medical center, with a medical droid."
I believe that impression would be incorrect then...
- Only the maximum of the Droid capabilityvs. the Structurecapability is taken into account.
So if you have a +110 Droid, you have the same bonus inside a Med Center as you do outside: +110.
"I didn't intend to suggest that food should be most effective when consumed in a camp. I think food should fall into the same effectiveness pattern as I suggested for healing:"
I like your improving effectiveness idea, perhaps you should bring up with SirVimes (the Chef Corr.).
"Under no circumstances should a Ranger food buff be preferable to any of the Chef buffs"
My suggestion would be to improve the foraged items to the point where someone would actually use them for more than pet food...
- Rather than adding food schematics to our profession.