Scout Archive
Thread: The scout apprenticeship XP project
I will create a character on that server to help you, what time are you normally on. I am normally available any nights 7pm to 11pm eastern.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Niunu Na`loo
Intrepid
Scout 4 4 4 4
Marksman 0 3 4 3
and some other minor stuff =P
I'm central US, so I play from 7pm or so to 10pm during the week. Longer on weekends.
I have a relatively new character on Chimaera, I'm located in California though.
Name: Mustapha Mond
Usual Location: Tatooine/Endor
Skills:
Scout - 4/0/4/1
Marksman - 4 Pistol, 2 Support
Brawler - 1/0/0/0
I'm going out for a CH/Smuggler combo.
Usual playing time:
Weekdays, 3:00PM - 4:30 PST, Friday nights (most of the time), 3:00PM - 7:00 PST, Weekends, 9:00AM - 10:00 PST and evenings.
I'd be glad to help out other scouts or marksmen, plaese send me an in-game email or PM here if you want to hunt or train! Good luck to you all.
Hi all Krelian here. I'm currently 4-3-4-3 Scout. 4-0-4-4 Marksmans, and some more in Medical and Artisan. I'm looking to make Ranger, so i'll be more than happy to assist.
My Info:
Bria Server
Times online Tue-Sat 10pm-12mid after work & Sun-after 3pm, and Mon-all day until 12mid. All times are Central Standard Time.
I think this is actually rather lame
The apprentice point system is supposed to reward interaction between characters, real characters that is, not manufactured characters that you power-level then delete. It is supposed also to be challenging to get
I suppose really they should have tackled exploits like this at the design stage but it still seems pretty dubious to me to be using the official boards to organise exploitation of a loophole using dummy characters
Brista,
Aiding our fellow players is exactly what the game is all about.
It is easier for some playing styles to gain AXP than it is for others. If not getting AXP is not making the game fun for someone, and this helps them to remove that obstacle to them having fun, then its not an "exploit", and its not "rather lame" - it's using a novel approach to solve a problem.
It's what I would call "good Scout thinking".
Don't be so judgemental, lest ye be judged.
B
Delta, the game is not perfect
There are a number of ways that players can cheesily exploit the system
But using exploits diminishes the fun for both yourselves and others
Look around at the mixed reviews this game is getting. It is a great game in many ways but it has a very unfinished feel to it because of exploits like this
The AP system is designed to make certain professions harder. Politician and Bounty Hunter for instance
AP is supposed to encourage advanced players to help new ones. It is a really good feature of the game except when people like you exploit it
If people lame their way through to these professions they get there without the sense of achievement that qualifying for one of those deserves and without the playing experience to get the most out of the harder professions
You can lame your way through pretty much all the boxes in Scout. Scouting exp and Survival exp you don't even need to be at the keyboard for. There is probably a way to lame your way through Trapping.
So you can get a Master Scout title and still be a complete NooB
Because that is what exploits do: they power up the character and they power down the player
You should be ashamed of yourself as an official correspondent helping people lame their way through your profession. What's next? duping?
Brista,
Delta, the game is not perfect
Of course not. That's why I'm here - to act as a go-between for the Devs and the players to make it better. I also do my best to provide as many answers to players who need them. That's my job. This is something that people wanted. You can tell by the number of posts here with people asking for help - that's why it's been stickied.
There are a number of ways that players can cheesily exploit the system
There are - duping, buying stuff off ebay, all sorts of horrible exploits. This isn't one of them.
But using exploits diminishes the fun for both yourselves and others
I agree - but many people would disagree with you. Why else would those exploits become popular? Some people think its fun. I don't like it - think it makes things harder on the rest of us, but they do. You can't place your defintion of fun on someone else. I think watching C-Span and arguing obscure military history to be fun. I think most people would be bored crapless with that.
Look around at the mixed reviews this game is getting. It is a great game in many ways but it has a very unfinished feel to it because of exploits like this
This isn't an "exploit". It's not taking advantage of a game flaw or a bug to massively power up your character. Your creating a character and helping another player get AXP by hunting with them. And frankly, it's a slow process. It's not something that will make you a master overnight. Training exploration over and over only gets you 20 AXP each time. That means you've got to do it 31 times to fully take someone from no AXP to enough for Master Scout. C'mon - no one is going to do that. This is just a temporary aid to those who are stuck. There's nothing wrong with that.
The AP system is designed to make certain professions harder. Politician and Bounty Hunter for instance
No, it's not. Its designed to foster communications between players. But at the point in the game when this project was brought up - 4 months in and no holocrons to get people to switch professions - there was a significant dearth in people needing training, particularly in basic skills. That's why the whole project was setup in the first place - and not by me, by other players. I saw that it was a good idea and lent my support.
AP is supposed to encourage advanced players to help new ones. It is a really good feature of the game except when people like you exploit it
Throwing the "exploit" term around isn't going to make this an exploit. Its simply a way for Scouts to help each other out. And we're doing it in a legitimate way, using the game functions the way they were designed to be used. And it may be a good feature, but it makes it extremely difficult for casual players - those who just want to log on for an hour, kill some stuff and log off - to level their characters. They don't have time to sit in a starport spamming "Teaching all skills!" until they get 31 people to come by and help them. These players pick Scouting as a profession because they like to solo, and we're the best profession for doing that. Under your philosophy, we'd just give the finger to players who don't want to spend their hour a night begging people for training. That's just wrong - it's not fun, and it's not why the AXP system was devised.
If people lame their way through to these professions they get there without the sense of achievement that qualifying for one of those deserves and without the playing experience to get the most out of the harder professions
Brista, they're not laming their way through. They still have to gain all of the XP and training for Master Scout. They still had to use all of your skills. This is a stupid argument. You're judging how other people play the game based on your personal feelings. That's not fair. Getting AXP is just tougher for some people.
You can lame your way through pretty much all the boxes in Scout. Scouting exp and Survival exp you don't even need to be at the keyboard for. There is probably a way to lame your way through Trapping.
How is it possible to not be at the keyboard for scouting XP? I would love to hear this. There is no way to completely AFK your way through Scouting, like there is for artisan or entertainer. This argument is completely false. Why don't you look through some of the posts in this thread - there are a number of excellent scouts - scouts who have contributed to these boards, worked hard to get where they were, and slammed up against a brick wall. They aren't lamers who are trying to blow through scouting. God knows, I've been at virtual war with those types since I became correspondent in July.
So you can get a Master Scout title and still be a complete NooB
There are ways to do this for EVERY profession. This isn't a point.
Because that is what exploits do: they power up the character and they power down the player
Power up the player - who has already learned what he needs and has gotten to a point where he needs help. C'mon. You're grasping at straws here. This isn't an exploit. It's just a way for Scouts to help each other, and that's in the best interests of the game.
You should be ashamed of yourself as an official correspondent helping people lame their way through your profession. What's next? duping?
If you have been reading any of the nearly 2700 posts that I've written, you'll know that I am the last person who wants to help anyone lame their way through this, the best profession in SWG. I've been a tireless advocate for Scouting and for this profession, and I take personal offense to this. How many guides have you written about Scouting? How many months have you been a correspondent? How many Scouts have you spoken with who have told you that they owe you for all the help you gave them?
Brista, I'm happy that you're writing on our boards, and I'm happy that you have opinions on this, but I would much rather see you helping out your fellow scouts than berating them and me for trying to help. That's the whole point of this thread - working together to make a more positive gaming experience for everyone. That's what SWG is about - that's what MMORPGs in general are all about. Comparing this to duping is just asinine - the two are 100% different, and youknow it.
I'm not ashamed at helpingmy fellow Scouts and I'm going to keep doing it.
B
Brista,
The role of a Master Scout in SW:G is defined by the game system. Traps + survival + scout skills + passing it all on. Without all of those you are NOT a Master Scout
The role of a Master Scout is whatever you want it to be - that's what the games all about. It's not just traps/suvival/scouts/passing it all on. Because, like you said before, someone can do that without knowing anything about actually having to be a Scout. So it can't just be this+this+this=Master Scout.
Now it is unfortunately possible to acquire scout exp, survival exp and apprentice points without earning them. This is because there are unintended loopholes (and no, I'm not going to say how to do it)
Brista, if you know about exploits then I suggest that you send a PM to Taurin. He's the dev responsible for fixing exploits and dealing with exploiters. I have sent him a number of PMs outlining a number of exploits that have been brought to my attention, or I have discovered. If you think that what we're doing here is an exploit, then by all means - send him a PM and tell him to check this thread out.
I have been very disappointed that these boards permit the free discussion and dissemination of exploits. But this is the first time I've seen a correspondent support it and I really think that you've not given this the thought it deserves, Delta
I've given it plenty of thought. I don't consider this to be an exploit. None of the Devs I've talked to consider this to be an exploit. There are no bugs involved here. There is no duping. There are no AFK macros. There are no 3rd party programs. There are no ebay sales. Nothing that could be considered "an exploit". Just because YOU think it is, doesn't mean that it is. This thread has been on here for nearly 3 months. And Xahn hasn't shut it down. Jaessa hasn't shut it down. And I know they've seen it.
You have a notion that a scout is a solitary hunter, well that's fine and that might be so in many other games. It isn't in this one.
C'mon, Brista. Have you ever read anything I've written?
And Scouting is one of the few professions that if someone wants to go solo, they can. If that's how you want to play the game, why can't you? Don't force your playing style on others.
And once you start supporting people in getting unearned progress you kill the fun of the game. For yourself, for me, for them even. Someone could buy a master bounty hunter on E-Bay but would almost certainly get bored of the game really fast. Because progress is the game, not achievement
It's not "unearned" progress. Do you realize that they have to do? They create a new character, get some equipment and then go out into the field with the person who needs the AXP and they HUNT. They go out and hunt together, and then the player who needs AXP trains that guy. How is that an exploit? They're just playing the game together.
Delta, have a good hard think about this. You're bringing preconceptions to your idea of what a scout should do in order to become a Master and they're just plain wrong. The game defines the requirements, not you
I have thought good and hard about this - I have made it my responsibility to help my fellow Scouts. If that means going to bat for them with the Devs, I do. If that means writing guides to help players along, then I do. If that means hunting with them so they can get the AXP they need, then I do (although, I've never done that - have been too busy to actively take part). I want the Scouting profession to be as fun for others as it was for me. That's why I do what I do here. This is a labor of love. I'm not getting anything in return here.
Brista, one of the wonderful things about MMORPGS is that they are constantly changing. The game may define the requirements but the players can REDEFINE them. When I started playing this game and when I made master there were about 50 things that were different from now. And working with the Devs, I and the other scouts, got important changes implemented that made the game better - and helped "define the requirements".
You've only been playing since September. You don't know what the game was like on June 29. And you don't know how far we've come. And while you claim that you "help scouts" and you "teach scouts" the only three posts you've ever made on this forum have been in this thread.
Take a few minutes - read the other posts on here. Read my guides. See exactly how the Scouts work, before condemning us.
How about posting some advice on how players who don't have AXP and are having trouble finding people to train should go about doing so? That would help keep people from turning to threads like these, right? Be part of the solution, not just another critic.
B
OK, let's clear up some misconceptions here
The role of a Master Scout in SW:G is defined by the game system. Traps + survival + scout skills + passing it all on. Without all of those you are NOT a Master Scout
Now it is unfortunately possible to acquire scout exp, survival exp and apprentice points without earning them. This is because there are unintended loopholes (and no, I'm not going to say how to do it)
This means that it is possible to become a Master Scout without earning it in the way that the developers intended the game to be played
And this is just as lame as any other method of achieving unearned progress
I have been very disappointed that these boards permit the free discussion and dissemination of exploits. But this is the first time I've seen a correspondent support it and I really think that you've not given this the thought it deserves, Delta
You have a notion that a scout is a solitary hunter, well that's fine and that might be so in many other games
It isn't in this one.
And once you start supporting people in getting unearned progress you kill the fun of the game. For yourself, for me, for them even. Someone could buy a master bounty hunter on E-Bay but would almost certainly get bored of the game really fast. Because progress is the game, not achievement
I find this assertion particularly poorly thought out:
Why else would those exploits become popular?
Cheating is popular. So is duping. So, in the real world, is war. I reserve my right to object
Delta, have a good hard think about this. You're bringing preconceptions to your idea of what a scout should do in order to become a Master and they're just plain wrong. The game defines the requirements, not you
For the rest of you just get out there and play. So what if you don't make Master the first day, you'll have a far better time with this game if you stop trying to avoid playing bits of it
As for me I do help Scouts. I learn from them. I teach them. I hunt with them. And I have a lot of fun doing it