Scout Archive
Thread: DEVELOPER RESPONSES Top 5 Issues from our State of the Profession
In my opinion, Scout has lost a lot of its "personality." with the recent updates. The POI tab makes actual scouting unneccessary and vehicles limit the value of Terrain Neg.
I want to be clear. . . Scout is NOT broken, and never will be when it is the only source of hide, bone, and meat. Its just become more of a hunter instead of a scout. Here are some ideas to add some flavor back to the Scout profession.
1) Give Master Scout a +1 to Max. Creature Level. This will add even more variety to the pets used in game and would demonstrate the basis of Scout as part of the Creature Handler chain. I don't think a +1 would be disruptive to game balance as most CH's go with at least level 15 pets. (Ranger's could get an additional +1.)
2) Reduce faction penalty for NPC combat. US Cavalry scouts wereboth welcome guests of the Native Americans and their worst enemies depending on the situation and timing of the encounter. Making our NPC faction loss (NOT Rebel or Imp) 80% of the norm would make it again clear that we are the profession to send for overland missions without dramatically disbalancing things.
3) Give us traps that actually trap. Allowing Scouts to harvest hide (pelts) while off-line, even in small numbers, would give us the ability to be more economically viable. Currently, a Artisan can harvest 1000's and 1000'sof units of resources with harvestersand log an hour of playing time a week. A Scout logging an hour a week can harvest maybe 1000 units of organics if that's all they do.
4) Delay the posting of waypoints on the POI tab. By creating new content, and moving around some of the existing content (Rebel bases, for example) you create new areas for Scouts to explore. By delaying the placement of these locations on the the POI tab you allow Scouts to find them before some guy on a Swoop. By the time they become the next parking lot, we'll be moving on to locating other new content.
5) Allow us to plant the flag. Give the first Scout to reach a new POI the ability to plant a banner which states his or her name when examined. Every new update you will have Scouts and Rangers racing to find the new content and prove that they were the first. It might be wise for the banners to take up a property lot to keep the database from becoming even more cluttered, but that is beyond my area of knowledge.
In essence, a lot of the reasons I first took scout (i.e. exploring) are now available to everyone. The new additions to the game have been good ones (even the POI tab has its place), but I'd like to see something given back to the Scouts that want to be just that. . . Scouts.
Tam Darkfell (Intrepid/Infinity) / Vendt Darkfell (TC)
P. S. I'm asking for any ONE of these to be implemented, not all of them. Ok, maybe two. . . it is Christmas after all.
Guys,
TH's second post here was a Lithium fart. Ignore it.
Watching,
I've discussed the forage issues with TH and with Green on a number of occassions. The main problems as I understand them is finding a way to make forage useful that doesn't make it unbalancing - both to us (such as giving XP that is then easily macroable) or to other professions (making Scouts not need medic services, etc.). So I'm going to try and talk it up a bit more, and see if it goes anywhere. Any indepth, well thought out ideas on how to make forage better would be great. Maybe I'm missing something in my arguments.
Trap and Camp experimentation is easy - and I think I am definitely going to add it on my next Top 5.
Trystan,
I don't think that we, as scouts, are going to see any traps that are going to work on NPCs or PCs. Those I would expect to be reserved for Rangers, if they are ever developed. And they should be - Rangers are elite. We're novice. However, a CH pet is still a critter, and there's no reason why we shouldn't be able to trap them. The only issue that I think we need to deal with here is the exploit of it. If we can find a work around, such as restricting pet traps to PvP, then I think it could work. That's what I'm proposing, at least.
I think the issue regarding camps was that you didn't have a place where you could run back to that was made you unattackable. But...since camps don't repel critters worth a darn, this may be something I can push harder for. I'll add it to my list.
Vendt,
You've got some good ideas in there. Lemme talk about a few of 'em quickly.
I like the +1 creature level. However, the main issue here is that you're going to PO the CHs. And what really is the difference between a level 10 and a level 11 creature? There are other things that I would rather see happen in the Master Scout line - like a "Mounted Negotiation" modifier, that lets us use our mounts over hills faster than non-Scouts. That's something I'm going to push some more. Mounts are getting ignored now that vehicles are out, and they need to be important for more than just RPing.
#2 seems fine. I don't know exactly how helpful it is, but I don't think it's a huge problem. And be careful - remember that there are a zillion definitions of "scout". Not all of 'em are analagous to real life. 
#3 isn't a good idea. These were in Beta, and they destroyed the market for hide/bone/meat because people were trapping tens of thousands of pelts, etc. In order for the market to work well, there needs to be some kind of cost to getting those hides. And hunting them is much better than simply checking a harvester. In order to keep harvestable materials at some price that makes it worthwhile to sell them, we need to limit the amount brought into the world.
#4. I don't know that this is really a bad thing, the POI tab. None of those spots weren't easily findable by going to a fan site and looking up the waypoint. This just made it a bit easier. And you still need to take the time out to actually go visit these spots. Not everyone is willing to stop powerleveling, grinding their holos, or PvPing to do this.
#5. This was something that we asked or a while ago - and I'll bring it up again. It's the reason I feel that the exploration badges were added to the game.
Squid,
The Creature Harvesting Notification thing was just a way for us to tell which creatures are unharvested and which are harvested, so we don't have to keep clicking all over the place. Just a little thing to make our lives easier.
See my forage response above.
Burst run - we asked that as our burst run modifier went up we would recover from being tired faster, or get a longer timer. As it stands our burst run efficiency only minimizes the HAM costs of the skill. And I'm trying to make sure the Devs know that that's how we see it. If that isn't the case (meaning our tests haven't been accurate), then I'd like to know that.
Anyway, keep up the good posts here guys! Let's get some ideas going. We haven't had a good debate on Scouting in here in a while.
B
DeltaXi65 wrote:
Vendt,
You've got some good ideas in there. Lemme talk about a few of 'em quickly.
I like the +1 creature level. However, the main issue here is that you're going to PO the CHs. And what really is the difference between a level 10 and a level 11 creature? There are other things that I would rather see happen in the Master Scout line - like a "Mounted Negotiation" modifier, that lets us use our mounts over hills faster than non-Scouts. That's something I'm going to push some more. Mounts are getting ignored now that vehicles are out, and they need to be important for more than just RPing.
There isn't much difference. I just don't like the way that pets are currently tiered instead of a natural variation. Non-CH all want level 10's. CH's all run around with the best they can get as they progress, leaving several pets ignored. Remember also that a Master CH could spend the skill points to take Master Scout and nudge his max level of pets up one as well. . . can't imagine they'd complain much about that. Besides, we still couldn't TRAIN/TAME them w/o CH involvement.
#2 seems fine. I don't know exactly how helpful it is, but I don't think it's a huge problem. And be careful - remember that there are a zillion definitions of "scout". Not all of 'em are analagous to real life.
Just a flavor thing, really. It will only matter for those who actively try to maintain good relations with all NPC's but are forced to combat by the random aggro or mission.
#3 isn't a good idea. These were in Beta, and they destroyed the market for hide/bone/meat because people were trapping tens of thousands of pelts, etc. In order for the market to work well, there needs to be some kind of cost to getting those hides. And hunting them is much better than simply checking a harvester. In order to keep harvestable materials at some price that makes it worthwhile to sell them, we need to limit the amount brought into the world.
I can accept this response, and expected it. I do want to be clear, however I'm not talking about a harvester in the traditional sense. I'm talking about something analogous to a bear trap. You spend a property lot to place a trap and it collects the equivilent of a single creature's worth of Hide. It would then need to be reset or rebuilt or whatever. The idea being that a wilderness type that doesn't want a house or several harvesters would be able to get maybe 100 - 500 extra hide if they went through the effort to craft and place traps before signing off. Again, more flavor than anything else.
#4. I don't know that this is really a bad thing, the POI tab. None of those spots weren't easily findable by going to a fan site and looking up the waypoint. This just made it a bit easier. And you still need to take the time out to actually go visit these spots. Not everyone is willing to stop powerleveling, grinding their holos, or PvPing to do this.
I keep harping on the POI tab because when I first learned about this game (about a year before release) the Devs kept making statements about this being a highly "internet-proof" game. Additionally, Internet searches for WP are as much time sinks as going out to find them in game and both promote communication between players instead of just making everything easy access.
#5. This was something that we asked or a while ago - and I'll bring it up again. It's the reason I feel that the exploration badges were added to the game.
Sorry if I was rehashing,I haven't really been on these boards long so I'm sure I've missed a lot of good discussion. SWG is my first experience with message boards in general, so I'm still learning about the proper ettiquette. At any rate, Explore badges are a step in the right direction, but I'm looking for some differentiation for Scouts.
Thanks for the response!
Tam Darkfell (Intrepid/Infinity) / Vendt Darkfell (TC)
I think starting with it not giving us "your inventory is full" and showing us what these rare forages are would be a good start. How can we suggest lots of improvements when the system doesn't even work as intended?
- Next give us smaller, but longer lasting buffs. If we can prevent them from stacking from the same source, a +25 to +50 for 15-30 minutes would be useful, but still not on the level of spice or (hopefully after the revamp) chef food.
- Make the items stackable. It is a serious waste of database and my inventory space to do otherwise. We don't need serial numbers or the like because these aren't used in crafting (it could be argued even then it isn't necessary), so let us treat them more like a consumable resource.
- Let us select whether we are looking for food, bait, or any other category that might be desirable. /forage food or /forage bait would be minor, but wonderful additions.
- Why not give small, like 10-25 xp, awards for foraging? It's impossible to macro this for an extended period because after 3-4 successes, there is nothing to forage in the area. We have to move. Are the devs considering this at all when they claim they worry about macroing? The problem is already solved.
he only issue that I think we need to deal with here is the exploit of it. If we can find a work around, such as restricting pet traps to PvP, then I think it could work.
The solution is very, very simple. Don't give xp for using traps against pets. Tada! Problem solved, there is no exploit and scouts and rangers can actually provide a benefit to PvP.
#3 isn't a good idea. These were in Beta, and they destroyed the market for hide/bone/meat because people were trapping tens of thousands of pelts, etc. In order for the market to work well, there needs to be some kind of cost to getting those hides. And hunting them is much better than simply checking a harvester. In order to keep harvestable materials at some price that makes it worthwhile to sell them, we need to limit the amount brought into the world.
I can accept this response, and expected it. I do want to be clear, however I'm not talking about a harvester in the traditional sense. I'm talking about something analogous to a bear trap. You spend a property lot to place a trap and it collects the equivilent of a single creature's worth of Hide. It would then need to be reset or rebuilt or whatever. The idea being that a wilderness type that doesn't want a house or several harvesters would be able to get maybe 100 - 500 extra hide if they went through the effort to craft and place traps before signing off. Again, more flavor than anything else.
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I like this idea alot. You could in effect run a "trap line" like artisans run harvesters. It makes sense to me. Scout is actually a pretty well rounded profession - it's ranger that's fubar. Who needs a camp with a crafting sation when there is a house every 100m and a town every 500m?
2.) Terrain Negotiation changes
The Devs believe that the Terrain Negotiaton skill is one of the defining characteristics of the class - one of our primary draws - and they are loathe to make major changes.
I brought up the idea that we get a bonus for using mounts on terrain, and they felt this was an interesting idea, and possibly something that we could have added to the Master Scout bonuses we receive.
all i got to say is DONT YOU DARE TAKE AWAY MY TERRAIN NEGOTIATION.....Please.
sorry if i read it wrong but you said changes which useally means nerf. i dont know what i would do with out it.can i get a clearifaction on this please.
Oonak,
If so - you should seriously think about becoming an Artisan.
Crafting items that non-Scouts and Rangers can use isn't our job. That's their job.I don't want them harvesting creatures, so I'm not going to ask to be able to make a Slitherhorn.
B
I have a few suggestions as far as forage goes.
The first is of course we should receive xp for successful forage.
The second is that treasures should be randomly (and rarely) included in successful forage. How great would it be to find a rebel transmission part or a signet ring just lying on the ground because you looked.
While foraged foods should remain directly edible certain items should be available to add to traps/meals in crafting. Adding complexity and yet another reason for scouting professionals to take up cooking. There is nothing like having a meal with your group at a campsite, it makes it all so much more fun.
I think these would be changes for the better.
delta, i may have a foraging solution if it has not been suggested yet and if so then i do not understand why it is not possible:
first have the exp yielded from a SUCCESSFUL forage be extremely low ie. 5 or 10 xp.
second allow foraging every 15 or 20 seconds so that one can only forage 3 or 4 times a minute (heck make it 30 secs if necessary). this will reduce the number of xp per minute to maybe 15 or 20 from foraging so that the extra points help out a little, but leave little to be desired.
third add a pop up window for EVERY forage attempt that says what it looks like you found (to satisfy the bait hunters) and requires someone to actually click ok so that macros become useless.
all of this implemented as a package should help out a little with the survival xp and yet should essentially eliminate macro exploitation. thank you.
DeltaXi65 wrote:
Lore,
No no no no no no no no no no. There will be no nerf to terrain negotation.
That's not what we're talking about here. What we're talking about here was the suggestion that we develop some means to restore the value of Terrain Negotiation now that Mounts and Vehicles are out. We suggested that Scouts be allowed to use their Terrain Negotiation modifier while mounted. That's what we're talking about here.
No worries - there's no need to nerf us because we are one of the very few balanced professions in the game.
B
thanks delta now thats that can clear up i can breath easy again...............
Lore,
No no no no no no no no no no. There will be no nerf to terrain negotation.
That's not what we're talking about here. What we're talking about here was the suggestion that we develop some means to restore the value of Terrain Negotiation now that Mounts and Vehicles are out. We suggested that Scouts be allowed to use their Terrain Negotiation modifier while mounted. That's what we're talking about here.
No worries - there's no need to nerf us because we are one of the very few balanced professions in the game.
B