Rifleman Archive
Thread: Rifles in melee...
I understand that a lot of these things are in place for balance reasons, but the increased melee damage against rifle users just doesn't make sense to me.
In the real world riflemen were trained to use the rifle as a melee weapon if the enemy closed with them, thus they were never truly vulnerable in melee combat (unless they were prone or kneeling, of course). Their heavy stocks and staff-like design was ideal for this dual purpose, although it was hardly good for the gun...
In SWG, pistoleers get special moves to use their weapons in combat (which should be about as effective as a hand-sized rock), no penalty for melee, and can relatively easily hit their target at that range. Meanwhile riflemen get NO extra maneuvers, suffer a sizeable penalty, and they can't hit a melee target at close range.
In order to have this make sense, I suggest that riflemen get a couple of melee attacks with their rifles at the cost of the weapon's condition. Also, the damage bonus against riflemen should be removed in favor of a damage bonus for the position (i.e. prone, kneeling, etc.) and since riflemen are often found in those positions, they will still be affected. Lastly, I suggest that rifles have a damage REDUCTION at extremely close range (unless they're using melee maneuvers listed above).
It would make better sense and would still have it's share of penalties and benefits. Melee types would still be able to run up to riflemen and whip up on them, but it wouldn't be a one-shot kill. I mean, really... What sense does it make that my tough and mighty wookiee can be brought down quicker than a bothan just because I have a rifle equipped?
the chance of a UA fighter getting to you as a rifle man should be slim to none, all you should have to do is blast off 2 supressions and make them dizzy
IMO the real problem is that pistoleers don't suffer this penalty, so naturally everyon gravitates towards that profession -- all the benefits of a ranged attack, none of the vulnerabilities.
I think pistols should suffer from melee attacks the same way that rifles and carbines do.
Though I would also agree with the concept that it doesn't make sense for rifles to take more damage in melee than pistols. Blocking a sword with a rifle is a lot easier than blocking a sword with a pistol.
Jedi_Master_Fiction wrote:the chance of a UA fighter getting to you as a rifle man should be slim to none, all you should have to do is blast off 2 supressions and make them dizzy
That's true, but many rifles fire so slowly that by the time the second one goes off, they have already gotten up from the first one and are already on you. I agreee, though that you should be able to stop them before they get to you, but how many rifles do you know in the real world that can't shoot beyond 64m? In a real world situation, you'd be able to shoot them at 150m and shoot several times in the 15 seconds it takes to get to you. On the other hand, the scale in SWG is such that they can close 64m in about 3-4 seconds.
I've posted on this issue before and it continues to annoy me...
Example...
Last night I am standing behind one of my PA mates healing him while he is shooting his pistol against an unarmed NPC...He's going through lots of them cause he's killing them in about 6 hits with the pistol and I'm healing him (although only about once per fight, he could solo one at a time with no healing, but I want xp). Well he's not paying attention to his mind, even though I'm trying to warn him, and he gets incapped by mind damage (full on other 2 stats). I notice that the NPC was almost dead, very little ham left...I take one shot with my rifle...miss...lol, he 2 hits me dead...to make it worse...I'm wearing chitin armor andmate waswearing none (wookie)...I should miss more than I hit at close range...like I did...but 3x dmg?????
ridiculous...
Seriously though, I agree with you totally. If there was some real world reason for it that made some sense, I would agree, but there simply isn't. Otherwise, why do most militarys across the world train their troops how to fight with a rifle in melee. They ALL do it to some degree, and some even design their rifles with attachments for bayonets! I survive longer by unequipping my rifle and equipping my freaking slitherhorn!!!
Darcimir,
lol..."wookie envy"
Of course he would have same problem if he was holding his bowcaster...
Thoth