Rifleman Archive

Message Edited by Waste93 on 08-16-2004 05:09 AM

so... what changes are thier? or is their none that pertain to Rifleman?

howdy, all.

currently on TC, I have at least one master toon in the following professions:

brawler
marksman
medic
scout

BioE
doctor
rifleman
swordsman
TKA

I have one force-sensitive toon.

with this spread of professions, I try to keep on top of more than just rifle-specific changes, but rifle is still my first and greatest love.

I try to keep up with the QA's for specific bug identification and recreation, and there are a few that I regularly harass (they don't seem to mind yet). I run solo, and also with a loose band of ne'er-do-wells known locally as the 'roughnecks' of TC. you might remember them as the first players to make mandalorian armor on any server.

I've already had the pleasure of hunting with waste on a few occasions on TC. while mobs can be entertaining targets, I find /bug hunting to be more rewarding overall. with waste around, I have high hopes for juicy prey.

I'll do what I can to keep TC changes posted 'round here, but if you have specific questions, try the following:

post here.
PM me.
log on to TC and look for one of my toons.

don't expect an immediate response... but neither will I be unavailable for days at a time. my days off generally stretch from monday to wednesday. I usually play latenights even when I DO work, so I keep well abreast of TC changes (and the forums) all week.

tomorrow morning, I get up early to shoot paint at some of my friends... and foes. to keep my aim steady and fluid, I depart now to sleep.

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Kinnison75 wrote:
so... what changes are thier? or is their none that pertain to Rifleman?

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RIGHT now? not much.

we're always trying to pin down existing bugs... and some of the recent changes (already pushed to Live) are notable. offhand, I'd say the NPC patch (which gave mobs the ability to use weapons, switch weapons, and use specials... all abilities they HAD in the past) has a direct effect on COMBAT, though not specifically on the RIFLE profession.

you'll know more about TC changes as they're revealed to us in code.

Whats the progress about the LOS changes to the enviroment?

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KardenTyrell wrote:
Whats the progress about the LOS changes to the enviroment?

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The LoS on TC doesn't work as well as I would hope. Probably why it hasn't gone live.

It measures from feet to feet so it is easy to get a 'can not see target' message as the feet are obscured by small objects, gulleys, or the angle of an incline.

This seems to become a bit worse when going prone since your feet are now behind you and changes the angle especially on non-level ground.

This leads to on sharp inclines it's better to be below the target instead of being above it.

I would love to see a LoS system go in. But I don't like the one they have now.

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KardenTyrell wrote:
Whats the progress about the LOS changes to the enviroment?

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as waste said, the changes still have some problems. LOS seems to be mostly a PvE change, since PvP usually involves plenty of movement... movement that makes the LOS less of a problem.

the LOS problems are best illustrated with lairs. since lairs are static, and since they can bury themselves in terrain to some degree, it's easy to see some of the problems are less noticeable on mobile targets.

lairs seem to be targetted (for LOS) at the 'feet to feet' level, as waste explained. the problem with that aim point is that the 'feet' of a lair can be IN the terrain, and you essentially need to attack from below or across the slope.

the biggest problem I have with the changes: at night, in dark environs, against small targets, etc, it's nearly impossible to SEE if the target is behind a rock, tree, or hill. since the TAB to target and the /exa both show FULL targets, your target can be slightly obscured (feet only in a small dip in terrain, etc) and the LOS will block the shot.

while it's easy enough to move and re-line the shot, most of the downside of this will be seen at longer ranges... meaning a melee won't USUALLY have this problem (but lairs can still be 'out of sight' within 5m), a pistol/carbine will see this occasionally, and a rifle will get many 'can't see target' messages. additionally, movement masks many of the LOS blocks, and since rifles are likely to move less than most professions, we're more likely to notice some of the sticky spots. if you're doing prone shots, you can lose the target pretty frequently.

so: you're sitting at a comfortable 60m with what appears to be a good shot. you take the shot, the target is behind a rock or some other feature of the terrain, and you can't see WHY the shot isn't completing.

BEST possible solution (and least likely): allow a visual 'zoom in' on the target, scoped or not. if the head of the target is just above the crest of the hill, allow for targetted shots. if the target is obscured, allow the terrain to block out the image. /exa doesn't do this... a target behind a wall is shown in full detail.

GOOD solutions (if only because of likelihood of implementation): target center-of-mass to center-of-mass. or head-to-head. feet-to-feet is the biggest problem currently, and it makes prone shots (already a liability) even less useful.

one of the most DANGEROUS problems with LOS is AOE spread... walls have holes, and anyone who has popped a stray /strafeshot2 is likely well aware of this. I've killed one QA so far: I was OUTSIDE the base strafe'ing defending factional NPC's, and he was INSIDE the base and at least one level down. I've been able to consistently gain the attention of mobs WELL outside my intended target area in the Geonosian caves and the Death Watch bunker.

until LOS patches up some of THESE holes while blocking what appear to be clean shots, it needs more tweaking.


also among my concerns: NPC's.

they already cheat. they wear armor up to AR3. they buff themselves to 100k+ HAM. they have weapons with cooked stats. too many seem to be master riflemen and TKM's. these problems aren't likely to go away, and with the limited AI of mobs, these 'exploits' are an understandable defense against sentient player tactics.

but they seem to ignore LOS and range. I've taken hits from mobs at 80m... which is well past the 64m limit for players. I've been down in a gully, or on the other side of a ridge, and taken shots from mobs. mobs can attack while in the water... and change postures while swimming. these behaviors are no good, and really ought to be addressed.

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Towelie-LXIX wrote:

T21s on TC2 are -90at0m and 0at0m.

Not sure if crafted ones are the same.

If I remember right the ideal was something like -50? at 60m?

Could definately use verification.

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1) TC2 doesn't really exist. it's there, you can (sometimes) log on to it, and testing IS happening there: but it's not a real server. right now, the testing there is supposed to cover p10 force sensitive/jedi quests.

2) the items coming from the terminals (blue frogs) on TC2 are suspect. they're not derived from the loot tables, and they aren't crafted. more than that, we can only speculate.

3) I remember seeing stats similar to this, ages ago, on the republic blaster (where /pointblank and /medium range were the same distance, with differing range mods). I haven't toyed with one in a while, but I suspect this isn't a new glitch.

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dragonisthedoor wrote:
What I would like to be added when it comes to LOS is that if you can't "see" an object then the accuracy mod next to the name should read "---" like it does when you are out of range then it telling you "+50" even though you can't see it. Currently the only way you know whether you can see something or not is to try to shoot at it.

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at the VERY least, I'd like to see this. again, it's nearly impossible to see the little rock or terrain wrinkle that's blocking your shot at 60m or so... and in the dark, even CRTL-L doesn't shed enough illumination to get a clean line of fire on distant targets.

I have a suspicion that the server doesn't actually KNOW if the shot is good or no until you take it, while the accuracy mod is updated constantly (it's a VERY rough calc, and adding LOS to the equation might add an enormous load on the equation).

the fact remains... if LOS is going to block shots, there should be something more than 'sorry, try again' when you find terrain in the way.

What I would like to be added when it comes to LOS is that if you can't "see" an object then the accuracy mod next to the name should read "---" like it does when you are out of range then it telling you "+50" even though you can't see it. Currently the only way you know whether you can see something or not is to try to shoot at it.

I have also been on TC for some time, and I can add to this. You can be right there inside 15m and not be able to shoot, but I switch to sword and lunge and this hits.

They will need to drop the LoS check for ranged at PB or include melee as well. Hopefully, this will not be much of a problem if/when they switch the check from head-to-head instead of feet-to-feet. You can be fooled on rolling terran and get into situations were clearly you should have a shot but the tiny bit of "hill"blocks theLoS algorythm. Would be nice to have a log be useful for cover too (instead of just blocking both ways), now that would be using tactics (/cover while kneeling?).

Luckily, if I can't range attack them, they can't do it to me... so far. I would be screaming if that were the case...