Rifleman Archive
Thread: Ok, so I was thinking that Riflem... NERF NERF NERF
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Oasa
Sun Mar 21, 2004 9:42 am
#1
I read that liek 90 page long (not all, I have a life, only the first 43 pages) post on how riflemen are gimped. I was someone to explain it to me in terms, NOW, because evidently that was a bit behind the times. No mind healing? They have that now. Tusken Rifle doesn't do KINETIC DAMAGE??? WHAT WOULD YOU WANT THAT FOR??? YOU HAVE AN ENERGY GUN THAT DOES HEAVY DAMAGE AND DOES +500 DAMAGE!
Ooooo commando's kill me... WHAT? You're kidding me right? commando's will miss you every time, with your defense mods.
Oooo Pistoleers.... im sorry what? their guns don't fire accuratly at 64 meters.
You can't get away from melee's? Burst run... it'll take them a long time to realize it.
If you didn't know this, you're an idiot and have no right to complain because you're just incompetant
Any decent rifleman has it EASY in PvP... its not hard to kite is it? really, i mean seriously
IF YOU CAN RUN AND SHOOT ACCURATLY WITH ONE ARM OUT HOLDING A GUN THE SAME SIZE AS YOU, YOUR PROFESSION IS OVERPOWERED, AND NEEDS TO BE CHANGED.
Now, you say to get stun resistance helmet, right? Well what if your server hasn't had the 3 resources to MAKE stun resistance layers FOR OVER THREE MONTHS???
And if you're complaining about the fact you SOMEHOW get within melee range (you'd be an idiot to) you should pick up a melee profession if they're so GODLY.
Yes I've picked up rifleman, and yes, it was good. very very very good.
Anyone who is complaining about your suckyness in PvE, conceal shot first off. If you need to grind there, go to a high level world, and let some group tank for you while you destroy the creature from 64m.
My last gripe I can think of is that I was fully buffed, fully armored, fully MIND BUFFED fully powerboosted, and had popped brandies. I hid behind a wall until a rifleman came within 20m of me. I pop out, and try to kd him. I miss. I miss 4 times. (I'm a master btw) He kites.... jawa ion rifle... 250 dmg over and over and over again.
Yes, he shot me, without missing from under 30m away. And I'm a master fencer... with COB on. HOW is this fair to you??? What other RANGED profession can do this? Melee's are just crushed and not worth comparing....
Please, explain HOW your profession is gimped. PLEASE!
I just don't get it. I don't get how youcan defend against getting nerfed....
PS: If you give me that BS about "Don't nerf us, make the other ones better" it won't work... the only way I could be as good as you, is if I had ninja throwing stars that had poison on them... and thats just stupid. Much like the 'don't nerf' response is. Or better yet, I want my character to have a pet called thorg (level ten of course) that has 9999999999 HAM and goes around clubbing people to dead. THAT would level us up. Because the only way to kill you is to get a CM.... and poison you. And even then, if you're a half decent PvP'er, you'll be 64m away and have already killed them.
PS: If you give me that BS about "Don't nerf us, make the other ones better" it won't work... the only way I could be as good as you, is if I had ninja throwing stars that had poison on them... and thats just stupid. Much like the 'don't nerf' response is. Or better yet, I want my character to have a pet called thorg (level ten of course) that has 9999999999 HAM and goes around clubbing people to dead. THAT would level us up. Because the only way to kill you is to get a CM.... and poison you. And even then, if you're a half decent PvP'er, you'll be 64m away and have already killed them.
Adam723
Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:01 am
#5
Rifleman arnt all that overpowered. There are just some things about them that are out of whack.
1. Why do they have melee defense, they shouldnt have any. Pistoleers should get melee and we do, but rifleman get just as much.
2. The way accuracy is done makes them too accurate at short range. There guns should be like -150 at PB. Ive been shot by a rifleman at under 10m while he was running and he didnt miss once.
3. There Speed is a little too fast. The DEVs have said that the speed system they developed is stupid. Good job devs.
Overall, rifleman as a stand alone profession isnt that overpowered or unbalanced. With the changes to the mind damage and profession changes, everythinf should be in order. But knowing the devs riflman will get nerfed hard and they will suck. And everyone will jump on whatever profession they over-balance.
The big problem is when you stack rifleman and tka or fencer, that y you cant hit them. 125 for a cap seems high to me. I have 160 pistol accuracy and i still miss stackers alot.
Message Edited by Adam723 on 03-21-2004 09:02 AM
PsychoticChipmunk
Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:24 am
#6
Range itself is screwed up. I've been shot by a pistoleer at 60 meters and he didn't miss me once either so that just needs to be worked on. I don't mind taking a hit to point blank as long as you guys take a hit to long range. As per the original poster here
Since we seem to be getting a larger influx of nerfherders recently for some reason I figure doing this can't hurt so here are some of the best non flamatory responses in the nerf threads that I know of all compiled here with credit given where credit is due. This may help lower the number of posts or allow you, my brethren, to pull up facts and good responses quite easily.After all,you can only explain simple game mechanics so many times before the tedium annoys you. Please read through this before posting your remark, both sharpshooters and others,and for the members of other professions crying out against us. Run your post through word and remove all the little green and red lines that are likely to spring up, it makes it easier for us to read and see your logic as well as add credibility to you beyond contempt at our "power."
Thank you.
Thank you.
Marco Renaldi
1. If you profession has broken skills (pistoleers) get them fixed instead of breaking ours.
1. If you profession has broken skills (pistoleers) get them fixed instead of breaking ours.
2. If you are a non master fighting a master and get owned then you need to suck it up and leave
3.IF you are complaining that we are impossible to hit.........We have stated several times this is a bug and it will be fixed
4. (cont from 3)using the defense stacker argument is pointless as that too is getting fixed
5. RIfleman are horrible until they cross that master gap, dont say thaty are not because unless you have crossed that gap then you have no idead the difference it can make.
6. The jawa ion is a awesome PVP weapon and is what really set us apart from the other classes. Dont nerf this as it is the balancer for those who can afford comp to those who cant. Yes more weapons need to use stun dmg to offset the power of this gun. This way people will have to choose if they will be safer with or without armor.
7. All armor should have weaknesses unfortunately the only major one is stun. There should be a decent stun protection armor, but the downside is that it should be vulnerable to almost everything. Otherwise PVP boils down to has the best armor. Stun weapons are meant to be the equalizers, but more classes need access to this damage.
8. Another point I would like to shut down is our accuracy up close. Up close we do hit a little too often, but pistols also hit way too often at ranges over 30meters. Until this is "Fixed" it would be unfair to lessen our accuracy.
9. Stop complaining about mind damage. Until master BH and CM's deal mind damage much much better than us. Also without food and buffs we do roughly 100 points more dmg to you than we do to ourselves. Before you say use food and buffs, we do but why dont you when fighting us?
10. Mind is also the hardest stat to buff. It takes approx 8-10 min for a full buff and that buff only doubles our current stats unlike getting between 1000-3500 for all the other stats in side of 2 mins.
11. Riflemen have a tremendous dmg potential at master, and up until a few months ago this was balanced by being one of the hardest proffessions in the game to master. However with the removal of the 2.5x melee dmg and the fixing of conceal shot made leveling easier. This was compounded with the Holo grinders and the defense stackers. Thus before the fix the power at master was very justified as only a very few number had the will to stick through the grind.
12. As for our speed...IF we fire a 3 sec spd cap and we miss our opening shot or do low dmg we are toast, as most other classes in teh game can shred anyone in that 3 sec timeframe
Sotaudi
Regarding Shot Speed:
Regarding Shot Speed:
Shot speed = weapon speed [* special delay] * (1 - (personal speed modifier * .01))
T21 at 7 second delay.
Personal Speed modifier at Master Rifle: 90
On autofire:
Shot speed = 7 * (1 - (90 * .01)) = 7 * .10 = .7 seconds per shot, so firing at the speed cap.
Headshot 2: Speed modifier 1.75
Shot Speed = 7 * 1.75 * (1 - (90 * .01)) = 7 * 1.75 * .10 = 1.225 seconds per shot (not the speed cap)
Strafeshot2 (our best damage multiplier): Speed modifier 3.5
Shot Speed = 7 * 3.5 * (1 - (90 * .01)) = 7 * 3.5 * .10 = 2.45 seconds per shot (nearly 2.5 x the speed cap)
Cairn SB
* as a side note I am a TKA master as well so I am posting this in the rifle and TKA forums
The reason why people cry nerf on TKA and rifle (and soon any class that targets the mind pool) is simple.
They don't understand the game!
People go out and buy composit armor (usual at 50% or lower resists to electric or kinetic)
They then get a doc to buff them, put there armor on and say "NOW I AM UBBER"
WRONG
The mind pool is the one pool that can not be healed fast (combat medic aside I am talking 1 on 1 PVP)
Sure you can take drugs and food, but you can't heal the mind pool constantly like you can health or action.
And the mind pool is typically the lowest pool in most charactors because the guns they use take action or health.
PVP (to my knowelge) has a 75% damage reduction.
So these people are used to getting shot for 150 damage.
The Rifleman will use a T21 or a Jawa ion rifle.
The TKA will use knockdown + dizzy + warcry to keep them on the ground (and vibroknuckles)...
The rifleman uses headshot3 (3x damage increase minus the 75% pvp = 2.3x damage)
The TKA uses knockdown combo (2x damage for being knocked down + 3x damage for UAH3 - 75% pvp = 4.3x damage)
So you can see - if I have not made it clear....
We are hitting the one pool (the mind pool) that con not bea healed.
And we are using armor peircing weapons (t21 and VK) to penitrate your armor.
And we are doing damage multipliers (specials).
So OF COURSE we are going to mess you up.
Point in case I was waiting on a shuttle and some random newb wants to duel.
he said something rude and challenges me.
I am not wearing armor
I am not buffed
I am holding a t21
I have "TKA Master" over my head
I look at him and examine his charactor....
He has mastered marksman and scout.
He has novice bounty hunter over his head.
He is buffed to the eyeballs on health and action (2500 ha)
He is wearing a full suit composit armor
He is holding a LLC
His mind pool is 200 out of 600 (and not regenerating fast)
He is standing 5m from me (omg can he be so dumb)
So I accept, the battle lasted all of 3 seconds and went something like this....
Me = KD + Warcry + Equip T21 + Headshot3
Him = begging me not to deathblow him.
(as a side not I could have easly used a vibroknuckles and used mind hit to waste him)
he then says he is taking a screen shot and sending it to CSR and reporting me of cheating.
So I take the time to explain the above to him and he said...
"ya right I am a bounty hunter I should have won"
I laughed so hard I almost fell out of my chair
DO NOT - i repeat - DO NOT
Duel someone that can target your mind pool UNLESS you bother to BUFF your mind pool.
DO NOT - i repeat - DO NOT
Duel an elite class (let alone two) when you are a beginner and expect to win.
This game is NOT based on your skill using a keyboard and mouse.
IN FACT
This game is 90% based on skill modifications and tactics
The other 10% seems to be simple luck
* as a side note I am a TKA master as well so I am posting this in the rifle and TKA forums
The reason why people cry nerf on TKA and rifle (and soon any class that targets the mind pool) is simple.
They don't understand the game!
People go out and buy composit armor (usual at 50% or lower resists to electric or kinetic)
They then get a doc to buff them, put there armor on and say "NOW I AM UBBER"
WRONG
The mind pool is the one pool that can not be healed fast (combat medic aside I am talking 1 on 1 PVP)
Sure you can take drugs and food, but you can't heal the mind pool constantly like you can health or action.
And the mind pool is typically the lowest pool in most charactors because the guns they use take action or health.
PVP (to my knowelge) has a 75% damage reduction.
So these people are used to getting shot for 150 damage.
The Rifleman will use a T21 or a Jawa ion rifle.
The TKA will use knockdown + dizzy + warcry to keep them on the ground (and vibroknuckles)...
The rifleman uses headshot3 (3x damage increase minus the 75% pvp = 2.3x damage)
The TKA uses knockdown combo (2x damage for being knocked down + 3x damage for UAH3 - 75% pvp = 4.3x damage)
So you can see - if I have not made it clear....
We are hitting the one pool (the mind pool) that con not bea healed.
And we are using armor peircing weapons (t21 and VK) to penitrate your armor.
And we are doing damage multipliers (specials).
So OF COURSE we are going to mess you up.
Point in case I was waiting on a shuttle and some random newb wants to duel.
he said something rude and challenges me.
I am not wearing armor
I am not buffed
I am holding a t21
I have "TKA Master" over my head
I look at him and examine his charactor....
He has mastered marksman and scout.
He has novice bounty hunter over his head.
He is buffed to the eyeballs on health and action (2500 ha)
He is wearing a full suit composit armor
He is holding a LLC
His mind pool is 200 out of 600 (and not regenerating fast)
He is standing 5m from me (omg can he be so dumb)
So I accept, the battle lasted all of 3 seconds and went something like this....
Me = KD + Warcry + Equip T21 + Headshot3
Him = begging me not to deathblow him.
(as a side not I could have easly used a vibroknuckles and used mind hit to waste him)
he then says he is taking a screen shot and sending it to CSR and reporting me of cheating.
So I take the time to explain the above to him and he said...
"ya right I am a bounty hunter I should have won"
I laughed so hard I almost fell out of my chair
DO NOT - i repeat - DO NOT
Duel someone that can target your mind pool UNLESS you bother to BUFF your mind pool.
DO NOT - i repeat - DO NOT
Duel an elite class (let alone two) when you are a beginner and expect to win.
This game is NOT based on your skill using a keyboard and mouse.
IN FACT
This game is 90% based on skill modifications and tactics
The other 10% seems to be simple luck
DomMantell
Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:44 am
#7
1. Why do they have melee defense, they shouldnt have any. Pistoleers should get melee and we do, but rifleman get just as much.
Until a few publishes ago we had a 2.5x melee modifier where we took 250% damage from melee attacks, to compensate for this the devs gave us extra melee defence. Then the devs changed the it from a damage modifier to a to-hit modifier (messing up at the same time so we were harder to hit instead of easier). They failed to remove the extra melee defence.
2. The way accuracy is done makes them too accurate at short range. There guns should be like -150 at PB. Ive been shot by a rifleman at under 10m while he was running and he didnt miss once.
Personally I miss a great deal at close range but we do hit a lot, probably as much as pistoleers hit at 50m and over. The 64m max range doesn't offer enough variation between weapon ranges.
3. There Speed is a little too fast. The DEVs have said that the speed system they developed is stupid. Good job devs.
All professions are supposed to attack at approximately the same rate once you hit master. Currently a master rifleman gets +90 rifle speed at master, this isn't enough to fire at the speed cap with our elite weapon (T21 rifle)unless it has a speed slice. However this also means that we need fewer rifle speed skill enhancing attachments to hit the 1 second cap, a +7 attachment will allow us to use any attack every second whereas a master gunfighter will require a +20 attachment to achieve the same results.
I seriously doubt that any rifleman would argue against ALL elite combat professions being rewarded with +90 speed to their chosen weapon.
The big problem is when you stack rifleman and tka or fencer, that y you cant hit them. 125 for a cap seems high to me. I have 160 pistol accuracy and i still miss stackers alot.
Master rifleman only gets +160 rifle accuracy. Pistoleers aren't the only ones who have trouble hitting the stackers, I miss them a lot too. The quickest way to deal with the stackers is to get a highly accurate weapon (get a scoped weapon, experimented for range instead of damage), use /aim and if you can, stun them to lower their defences.
I hope that we don't get hit with the nerf bat, if we do it will only cause another nerf cycle where no one will benefit.
People may want riflemen (and pikemen????) to get a 3 second speed cap, but would those same people agree to that cap if they knew that as a result or the nerf cycle within3 months pistol range would be reduced to 48m, melee range would end up being reduced to 10m, etc?
Blaxx
Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:31 am
#8
I was a TKA/DOC a long Time. But the ranged guys hunted me , kiting me , smoked me and there is no way to safe your Mind. Thy want not wait for me to come close . And my Spezial needs almost to long to kill a ranged guy , if i was lucky and KD/Dizzy them , The 80% kinetic Head you know .
I read a lot about nerfcrying about TKA , and dont understand but this Profession can ongly Figth in 0- 6 m Range .
Anyway , i found my own way to the Force -> Now i am reborn as an RM/Doc and the TKA should be nerfed .
Dont touch the RM , is all ok. 
Jeassa
Sun Mar 21, 2004 12:13 pm
#9
Greetings,
This thread has been closed as it violates the forum policies. Please understand that you agree to follow the Forum Policies when you sign up for your forum account and we do enforce the policies.
DomMantell
Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:21 am
#10
1. Why do they have melee defense, they shouldnt have any. Pistoleers should get melee and we do, but rifleman get just as much.
Until a few publishes ago we had a 2.5x melee modifier where we took 250% damage from melee attacks, to compensate for this the devs gave us extra melee defence. Then the devs changed the it from a damage modifier to a to-hit modifier (messing up at the same time so we were harder to hit instead of easier). They failed to remove the extra melee defence.
2. The way accuracy is done makes them too accurate at short range. There guns should be like -150 at PB. Ive been shot by a rifleman at under 10m while he was running and he didnt miss once.
Personally I miss a great deal at close range but we do hit a lot, probably as much as pistoleers hit at 50m and over. The 64m max range doesn't offer enough variation between weapon ranges.
3. There Speed is a little too fast. The DEVs have said that the speed system they developed is stupid. Good job devs.
All professions are supposed to attack at approximately the same rate once you hit master. Currently a master rifleman gets +90 rifle speed at master, this isn't enough to fire at the speed cap with our elite weapon (T21 rifle)unless it has a speed slice. However this also means that we need fewer rifle speed skill enhancing attachments to hit the 1 second cap, a +7 attachment will allow us to use any attack every second whereas a master gunfighter will require a +20 attachment to achieve the same results.
I seriously doubt that any rifleman would argue against ALL elite combat professions being rewarded with +90 speed to their chosen weapon.
The big problem is when you stack rifleman and tka or fencer, that y you cant hit them. 125 for a cap seems high to me. I have 160 pistol accuracy and i still miss stackers alot.
Master rifleman only gets +160 rifle accuracy. Pistoleers aren't the only ones who have trouble hitting the stackers, I miss them a lot too. The quickest way to deal with the stackers is to get a highly accurate weapon (get a scoped weapon, experimented for range instead of damage), use /aim and if you can, stun them to lower their defences.
I hope that we don't get hit with the nerf bat, if we do it will only cause another nerf cycle where no one will benefit.
People may want riflemen (and pikemen????) to get a 3 second speed cap, but would those same people agree to that cap if they knew that as a result or the nerf cycle within3 months pistol range would be reduced to 48m, melee range would end up being reduced to 10m, etc?
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