Rifleman Archive

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Atobusarragra wrote:

Ok, what I meant to ask is: Does Vulnerability work the same way as resists? If my gun shoots stun damage, and my target is vulnerable to stun the bonus I get from AP is lost because the AP is reduced to 0 due to the target being vulnerable to stun. Is it the same with resists? Do I lose the AP bonus?

I have been checking targets and found three categories: Special protection, Effectiveness, and Vulnerability. Can someone tell me what each one represents? I'm assuming the vulnerability means totally vulnerable to that damage type and AP bonus is reduced to 0. Special protection are resists, again assuming? Effectiveness, hmm, what is this? A bonus to the damage above normal if I use a weapon that does this type of damage? How is AP affected in this case?

Thanks,

Ato

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I'll apologize ahead of time for the maths involved.

If a target has a vulnerability to, say for example energy, then any damage to that target that occurs from an energy weapon bypasses all AP/AR calculations. You get no AP bonus against a vulnerability.

If you had 2 (imaginary) weapons, a DLT20a (AP0) and a T21 (AP3) rifle both 399-400 damage then against a target that's vulnerable to energy both weapons would do exactly the same damage.

Special protection doesn't work correctly. In theory a special protection should also negate any AP bonus, so an AR0 target with 50% energy resists would have 50% energy resists regardless of the AP of the weapon that's being used to attack them (an AP3 weapon would gain no AP bonus). However, it doesn't work correctly. Special protections work in exactly way that effectiveness works (this may change in the CU, but I'd not like to guarantee it).

Effectiveness works on top of AR. Once damage bonuses/reductions based on AP/AR have been calculated the effectiveness is then applied to the damage calculations. An AP0 weapon against an AR0 target with 50% resists would see the damage from the weapon reduced by 50%. An AP3 weapon against the same target would first have the AP bonus applied (25% per extra AP) so an AP3 weapon would gain 1.25*1.25*1.25 damage (95.3%) before having that damage reduced by the 50% effectiveness. An AP0 weapon against an AR1 target with 50% resists would lose 50% damage for the AP/AR reduction before losing a further 50% damage due to the effectiveness.

Hope this helps.

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Atobusarragra wrote:

If an enemy is vulnerable to a certain type of attack, then the AP of the gun is counted as 0 (and the AR of the enemy is also 0).

Now, is vulnerability the same thing as a resist? That is, when I examine a creature it states resists to cold and kinetic for 50%. It alsostates vulnerabilty to stun and lightsaber (no percentages given). Do the resists here mean vulnerabilty, in terms of reducing the AP of a weapon that causes that damage type to 0? Ie, does this mean if I use a SG82 (cold dmg) on this enemy, then the AP and AR will be 0 because the 50% cold resist is counted as a vulnerablilty? Or, if I use T21 on a creature with 50% energy resists, does this mean the T21 AP is 0? Basically, are resists and vulnerabilites the same thing?

Thanks,

Ato

P.S. I'm still searching, but I feel another question regards ranged/damage mitigation coming on....

P.P.S. Finally get a weapon that does heat damage...back....Yay for the berserker rifle....now only if the tusken would be made kinetic...again...

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Thats a really confusing way of thinking about Vulnerability. Just think of it as bypassing resists altogether, not both counting as 0 lol.

As for what you were saying after. if the type of damage is in the Vulnerability list, it wont have any %, just a - meaning that it doesnt have any resists to that damage type. You'll never see something with Stun in the Vulnerability section and it have a % resist there, if you do, get a screenie of it lol.

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Atobusarragra wrote:

Ok, what I meant to ask is: Does Vulnerability work the same way as resists? If my gun shoots stun damage, and my target is vulnerable to stun the bonus I get from AP is lost because the AP is reduced to 0 due to the target being vulnerable to stun. Is it the same with resists? Do I lose the AP bonus?

I have been checking targets and found three categories: Special protection, Effectiveness, and Vulnerability. Can someone tell me what each one represents? I'm assuming the vulnerability means totally vulnerable to that damage type and AP bonus is reduced to 0. Special protection are resists, again assuming? Effectiveness, hmm, what is this? A bonus to the damage above normal if I use a weapon that does this type of damage? How is AP affected in this case?

Thanks,

Ato

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You only lose the AP bonus IF the target is vulnerable.

Resists are a percent reduction to damage done. So if you have a target that has a 50% resist, then you are only doing half the total damage. A good way to see this is to compare combat spam damage to floaty damage. The combat spam does not take into account the targets reductions such as armor or resists. The floaty damage that appears over the target is the actual damage done.

Special Protection and Effectiveness are the same thing bascially. However Special Protection overrides any corresponding stat in Effeciveness. So if you have something that shows Energy 50% under Special and it shows Energy 30% under Effectiveness then it only has Energy 50% resists. They do not stack.

Another good example is armor. When I was slicing I could only increase the Effectiveness on an Effectiveness slice. You can't modify the Special Protection value.

I know it's fairly confusing have these two seperate but basically identical stats. Hopefully they'll get rid of one in the CU/R/B and just have resists and vulnerabilites.

Special versus Effective resistance on creatures play an important role for Bio-Engineers, it matters when making pets. When you attack a mob do not pay attention to the words "special" and "effective", keyword is "resistance".

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BrerLapin wrote:

So hold on your saying that if a target is vulnerable to Energy & I shoot it using my T-21 250-500 my T-21 will do 250-500 & not 488-977?

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It would depend on the type of attack that you were using (headshot1-3, strafeshot2, etc.). You will get the normal damage multiplier from that attack, but there's no bonus for AP against a vulnerability.

If you want to test it, go to Endor & find a Delirious Merek Avenger, Merek Harvester, Toxic Merek Battlelord, King Merek Harvester or Queen Merek Harvester. All 3 are vulnerable to energy damage. Try walking about 1km south of the Smuggler Outpost there, you can usually find wild lairs with ease.

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BrerLapin wrote:

So hold on your saying that if a target is vulnerable to Energy & I shoot it using my T-21 250-500 my T-21 will do 250-500 & not 488-977?

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Yep. You'll still get the specials damage multiplier. But no AP bonus at all.

Is it just me or is that a major design flaw ?

If thats working as intended Then AP should be expressed as a percentage of damage type & the resists subtracted from that amount.

But then if its working it aint SWG ;D

Message Edited by BrerLapin on 01-12-2005 03:53 AM