Rifleman Archive

Thread: Conceal shot?

Idoli
Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:05 am
#1

I second box in rifleman. I have the combat exp box and conceal shot, of course along with novice rifleman. I walk up to a Bol on dantooine. I am at least 64m away and I go prone. I conceal shot this bol at least 5 times in a row and by the 4th one he is running at me. What am I doing wrong?



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Iclor Ibib
Master Brawler\\Master Swords\\Master Tera Kasi
Corruptive Minds
" I feel within me a peace above all earthly dignities, a still and quiet conscience."
William Shakespeare
Zelbrick5
Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:26 pm
#2

First take cover then fire off your conceal shot. He will not be able to tell where the shooting is coming from. But beware some big mob's can detect you and be up on your nuts in no time at all.










Freddi Soci
Master Doctor / Master Rifleman
Colonel for the Rebellion

"Snipers only know of two different kinds of people, Other snipers and Targets."
OditeFosore
Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:52 pm
#3

Conceal shot will work as long as you do not miss more than twice in a row or stick a dot. What most likely happened is you missed 2 times in a row, which cause a MOB to aggro. Try it out again and see if it works. There is a "feature" introduced by the developers that there is a random chance to land a 1 point bleed when using conceal shot. This feature makes it harder for riflemen to solo high-end MOBs.


BTW, taking cover has zero affect on your ability to successfully land conceal shots. Taking cover increases your ranged defenses. If you are attacking human NPCs it is useful, but not ever against creatures.



♣Odite Fosore Rahu Coteau
Imperial Soldier 12 Point Master ChefΨ

Empearian
Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:55 pm
#4

Does mask scent, or Ranger Concealment help I dont want to train it if it doesnt





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OditeFosore
Thu Jul 01, 2004 7:44 am
#5




Empearian wrote:

Does mask scent, or Ranger Concealment help I dont want to train it if it doesnt



No, not at the moment. We're hoping that it does in the future as it would make sense for a sniper to use those sorts of tactics.




♣Odite Fosore Rahu Coteau
Imperial Soldier 12 Point Master ChefΨ

Empearian
Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:04 am
#6

ok, thanks for the Info





Specialist ~ Elder Jedi
NNNNNNNNN
Srv ~ Ex Buffing Doc to South Villas
NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
Selmak ~ Master CreatureHandler / Master Artisan
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"Every time a Rebel dies, an angel gets its wings"

Sotaudi
Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:13 am
#7






Empearian wrote:

Does mask scent, or Ranger Concealment help I dont want to train it if it doesnt







Keep in mind the way Concealshot and creature/NPC responses work. You can usually go prone at long range and get off 3 to 6 shots (depending on your speed) before the creature/NPC will attack you. This is because, you will pickup a TEF (Temporary Enemy Flag) as soon as you attack, making you a threat, but the creature still has to detect you before it can attack. Your range and your posture will affect how quickly the creature/NPC will detect you. The lower your posture and the greater the range, the harder it is for the creature to detect you. Thus, if you are prone and at 50m - 60m, you will be harder to detect than if you are standing and within 10m of the target. The harder to detect you are, the more shots you will get off before the creature responds. However, for shots other than Concealshot, if you do not kill it first, the creature will eventually automatically detect you and respond.


For Concealshot, all that happens is it prevents the creature from detecting you simply because you are shooting it. It does not prevent the creature from detecting you for other reasons. For instance, if the creature wanders too close and would normally detect you because it was that close, it will still do so and respond. As mentioned in a previous post, if you miss twice, it will detect you and respond. Also as mentioned elsewhere, any shot can cause a random bleed. If this occurs, when the bleed ticks off, the bleed will cause the target to detect you. If the creature is already aware of you when you start shooting, it will attack.


Therefore, Mask Scent and Conceal will help in that they will allow you to get into position undetected. At some point, the Devs decided that Mask Scent would break as soon as combat started. I have not had Mask Scent for a while, and do not have /Conceal, so I do not know if this is still the case, but I suspect that it is. So while it will not likely help prevent them from detecting you once the combat starts, it will allow you to get into position undetected, which means you will have a better chance of starting out undetected.





Sotaudi Crestlighter
Master Rifleman / Master Combat Medic
"The Physician's Pain Reference"

Former Professions
Master Doctor | Master Swordsman | Master Brawler
Master Scout | Ranger



LyteFoot
Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:04 am
#8

Mask scent doesn't break in combat, it only breaks if a creature "detects" you "despite your attemptsat camoflage". I often fight and clear a whole layer with mask scent in place, both in up close and ranged situations. I've had situations where I had to run in and stim a brawler friend, continue shooting the creature I'm engaged with, and have another creature 10 meters away ignore me.


Just last night I was running the squill cave, not the best place for ranged combat. I tapped several squill to agro them to me for a lower level friend to get xp off of. Even with 5 squill pounding on me I had mask scent hold once.


Is there a macro that will do conceal shot twice then peace? I've tried /concealShot; /concealShot; /peace and it goes directly to the peace command.



Elwyn LyteFoot - Corbantis server
smugglercm
Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:36 am
#9

ok so you have 0/1/0/3? or something like that well you chance to do conceal shot and not get agro is in the smiping line at novice you have low conceal chance



Enuendo Kaiba
corruptive minds

Still unwilling to make sacrifices -- that's what makes you weak.
Yeah i hate wookies. why you ask? Because they smell funny.
Redrazors
Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:24 am
#10

Cover adds to your ranged defense, not your chance of being seen right? So how useful is having about 100 cover?

Also are there any bio-clothes that can add to our conceal chance?

Cheers.
perfavorebasta
Tue Jul 06, 2004 5:07 am
#11

Sincerely!

Iherversted some 60k herbivore meat on Dantooine using conceal shots so I think I have enough experience to replay to you.


Bols are bastards, definitely!! The upper levels are so much more! The seething is a champion in this!!


I observed that they charge in several direction, also if they don't discover you exactly. And doing so they can choose the right direction. The same things doesn't happen with pikets, nor with the protectors. That's why when I see bols on terminals I'm not so happy and I go elsewhere ... lol


So if u need the experience to get master,do piket or thune missions that is better also for the number of creatures spawn (specially thune). They drop the same meat and all are in the 3300-4500 exp/each. The only bad news is that the piket and the thune have a better energy protection that simple bols so u will have to do some more shoots to kill them.


I use to take the bols too but I'm TKA master and I can do my job till if they discover me nor I fear the light disease they put.


Have fun, the way to master is long!

Opith





*Opith & Laara & Nanobit (Flurry)
Opith - forever lightsaber master
Laara - Former Bio-Engineer
Nanobit - Droid-Engineer & Artisan
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Sotaudi
Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:39 am
#12






LyteFoot wrote:

Mask scent doesn't break in combat, it only breaks if a creature "detects" you "despite your attemptsat camoflage". I often fight and clear a whole layer with mask scent in place, both in up close and ranged situations. I've had situations where I had to run in and stim a brawler friend, continue shooting the creature I'm engaged with, and have another creature 10 meters away ignore me.


Just last night I was running the squill cave, not the best place for ranged combat. I tapped several squill to agro them to me for a lower level friend to get xp off of. Even with 5 squill pounding on me I had mask scent hold once.


Is there a macro that will do conceal shot twice then peace? I've tried /concealShot; /concealShot; /peace and it goes directly to the peace command.





I think that everybody makes this mistake. I certainly did. We mistakenly assume the macro processor will shoot a /Concealshot, wait for the first shot to finish, then fire the Concealshot, then wait for the second shot to finish, then execute the /Peace. But that is not the way the macro processor works.


/Concealshot (or any /specialofchoice) does not mean to the macro processor, shoot this special. It means add this special to the combat queue.Since thecombat queue is a separate process from the macro processor, that only takes milliseconds for the macro processor to execute. So a macro with 15 specials will queue up all 15 specials and end long before the specials actually execute in the queue, most likely before the first special actually even fires.


Now consider what /Peace does. Peace ends combat (for you, not necessarily your target) and clears the combat queue. This keeps you from continuing to shoot and allows you to do things like /healdamage without having to waitfor the queued specials to fire.


So what your macro will do is what you have told it to do, queue up two concealshots, then immediately clear them from the queue and stop fighting.


The way around this is figure out how long it takes for your two concealshots to fire and put in an appropriate /Pause to allow both shots to fire. Then do the /Peace. This works because the /Pause does not go into the combat queue, but works on the macro processor saying,"don't do anything for this amount of time." Therefore, the /Pause before the /Peace keeps the /Peace from queueing to the combat queue, allowing the shots to actually fire before the /Peace clears the combat queue and ends combat.


For instance, if you are at Rifles Special Abilities 1 and are using a 7.5 second T21, you would make your macro look something like this: /Concealshot;/Concealshot;/Pause 15;/Peace. This will queue up two Concealshots, wait 15 seconds, then do a Peace. Why 15? because at Rifles Special Abilities 1 with its +40 to Rifle Speed, it will take 13.5 seconds to fire Concealshot. Thus, the macro will queue the two Concealshots, and, assuming nothing else is going on, the first will fire almost immediately. 13.5 seconds later, the second Concealshot will fire. Then there will be another 13.5 second delay before the next special or Autofire will go off. Thus, as long as you do the /Peace sometime in that second 13.5 second period, you will have given sufficient time for both shots to have fired but not enough time for the second delay to expire. Having a pause somewhere in the 15 - 17 second range should give sufficient time for the second shot to have fired but execute the /Peace long before the delay for the second shot expires


However, keep in mind that if you change rifles, if your speed mod changes (e.g., you move up inRifle Special Abilities), or if you are lagging, you may need a different time for the /Pause. For instance, at Rifle Special Abilities 4, you would fire Concealshot with that same rifle at only 6.8 seconds per shot, meaning you would be ready to do another special or would start autofiring at 13.6 seconds from the start of the macro, which is 1.4 seconds before the /Peace takes effect with a 15 second pause. Thus you would need a shorter pause at that point.


Also, queuing up a second round of this macro before the delay from the previous shot expires will throw off the timing. For instance, you queue up this macro. The two Concealshots fire, and the /Peace goes into effect at the approprate time. However, you get ahead of yourself, and you fire off the macro right after the /Peace from the first one takes effect, you could, say, have 10 seconds left from the delay from the first go around. Thus, the second attempt will queue up 2 Concealshots, but the first one will not fire for 10 seconds. It fires, then 5 seconds later, the /Peace will execute, clearing the combat queue, which will keep the second Concealshot from executing.


You may also want to add a /Aim before each /Concealshot, because this will make it less likely that you will miss. However, you will need to adjust your /Pause accordingly since /Aim will add some time to the execution of both shots.


However, as long as you know the behavior, you can work with it.


Personally, I have not bothered going this route. My Concealshot macro simply queues up 3 Concealshots. I typically fire off a couple of those to get 6 or so Concealshots in the queue then watch the target and damage. If I miss twice, I hit peace immediately. Also since any shot can trigger a random bleed, if I see a bleed show up on the target's status, I wait for the target to aggro from the bleed then hit peace and switch to a faster, higher damage special. I also watch the target's range. If it starts getting too close or goes out of range, I will hit peace and setup again at the appropriate range. Conversely, if I do not miss, if I get no random bleed, or if the target stays in range, I just hit the button to queue up three more Concealshots before the last one queue fires, usually while there are two left in the queue. This prevents me from inadvertently autofiring, and I just keep doing this until the target is dead.


I find having a macro with three better than just hitting /Concealshot three times and not so many that the queue fills up too quickly. Anyway, it works for me.




Sotaudi Crestlighter
Master Rifleman / Master Combat Medic
"The Physician's Pain Reference"

Former Professions
Master Doctor | Master Swordsman | Master Brawler
Master Scout | Ranger



Waste93
Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:25 pm
#13

Do you have /Aim from ranged support (Marksman). If so you'll want to use it with your /ConcealShot to decrease your misses.


The number of misses you are allowed before being detected depends on your posture. If standing you will be detected on the first miss. Kneeling it's the second miss. Prone it's usually the third miss.


/ConcealShot also seems to cause a 1 point bleed sometimes. This was probably put in so that we couldn't just sit and /ConcealShot a Kraty or something with impunity. Just make sure you pay attention and take appropriate measures if you see it start to bleed.


/MaksScent should help you set up your firing position so you are less likely to get detected by aggro MOB's.


If a MOB starts coming towards you hit /Peace and either relocate or wait for it to wander off. If you start to miss also hit /Peace and start over. If you /Peace you reset the miss counter.


Some MOB's wander around more than othes. As someone else already stated, Bols like to charge around which increases their chance of detecting you. Others like Pikets don't do this. Watch the MOB's to see which behaviour they have and plan accordingly.


For a macro you will have to find out how long you have between shots. If you turn on the clock on your messages it will be easy to determine. Then you will need to put in a /pause XX command in the macro. You may want to do just two shots. So if it's a 5 second dealy between shots here is what I would do for my macro.


Name the macro conceal. /ConcealShot ; /ConcealShot ; /pause 6 ; /macro conceal . That last part will loop it. You can take it out if you don't want it to keep looping. I would put the pause at 1 sec more than the delay between your weapons to make sure you get off both shots. If you use the loop version and can stop it with /dump . Just be careful of the bleed instance that will cause aggo. You can also put in an /Aim in the macro before each /ConcealShot to increase your hit rate, though it will double your attack time. I would not recommend doing this as an AFK macro since if the target does aggro you will be unable to hit it from the prone position if it gets into melee range with you. Which means you will get incapped. Also since this macro would keep running, as soon as you recovered from the incap, you would start shooting at the target again causing an instant aggro in a very weakened state. End result will be a three incap death.


You will have to adjust the /pause time if you change weapons or increase your base speed by getting Rifle Abilities IV.



Colonel Waste - The Wookiee Crusader
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