Rifleman Archive

Damage Sliced, definitely.

i'm going against you two.. I say speed slice/damage powerup, or damage slice, speed powerup; she won't hit the cap with a damage slice/damage powerup.

at +90, a 7.4 gun shoots strafe2 at 2.6 secs each... that's a 62% damage reduction over capped shots.

c'mon guys..

To elaborate a little more, see the examples below and make up your own mind:
If you have Master Marksman AND Master Rifle, then your rifle speed should be at least +95.
If you only have Master Rifle, then your rifle speed is probably only +90.
The "default" speed on most T21's is around 7.8, so with that in mind......

The formula for firing speed is:
weapon_speed * shot_delay * ((100 - your_rifle_speed_modifier) * .01)

Example: T21 with speed 7.8, firing SS2 (5 sec delay modifier)
If your rifle speed is +90, then SS2 firing speed = 7.8 x 5 x ((100 - 90) * .01) = 3.9 seconds
If your rifle speed is +95, then SS2 firing speed = 7.8 x 5 x ((100 - 95) * .01) = 1.95 seconds

Lets assume you do NOT have MM and your rifle speed is +90.
Now there are a couple of ways to look at this data. You could get DAMAGE powerups and do 1.33 x the damage every 3.9 seconds, or you could get SPEED powerups and do regular SS2 damage about every 2.6 seconds. Given all this, I'd probably still goe with damage. Notice that rifle speed attachments totalling +3 would help a lot also, bringing your rifle speed to +93, for example:

With rifle speed +93, then SS2 firing speed = 7.8 x 5 x ((100 - 93) * .01) = 2.73 seconds

Please, everyone, let me know if my math or logic is wrong here.

CRAP! Looking back at an old post, I think I got the delay modifier of SS2 wrong. I dont think it is 5, it may be only 3.5 seconds, which speeds up your SS2 firing rate a lot. If it is 3.5 instead of the 5 I used in the examples, then I'm right back where I started (LOL!)... go with Damage sliced!

Can someone confirm the Shot Delay modifier for SS2?

errmmm... did the devs change something? a 5 sec speed mod on strafe 2?

i've always used 3.5x base attack speed, after adjustments.

i.e. 7.4 gun, 3.5x strafe 2, +90 speed for Master rifle, no sea's, no master marksman.

7.4 x ((100-90)/100) = .74 x 3.5 (strafe 2 delay) = 2.6 secs per shot.

5.4 x ((100-90)/100) = .54 x 3.5 (strafe 2 delay) = 1.9 secs per shot.

let's assume her two given examples: Master Rifle, +90 speed. Ignore AP.

Gun 1: 7.4 speed, 540 max damage. 2.6 sec strafe 2. 5x damage mod. 540 X 1.5 (ranged weapon mod) x 5 (strafe 2 damage mod) = 4050 pts base x 2.6 sec per = 1557 DPS

Gun 2: 5.4 speed, 450 max damage. 1.9 sec ss2. 5x damage mod. 450 x 1.5 x 5 = 3375 pts base x 1.9 sec per = 1776 DPS

Further:

Gun 1 with 33% speed powerup-- 7.4 x .67 = 5.0 speed. DPS = 2314
Gun 2 with 33% damage powerup-- 450 x 1.33 = 599. Top end shot damage = 4489. DPS = 2362

and just for kicks

Gun 1 with 33% damage powerup-- 540 x 1.33 = 718. Top end shot Damage = 5386 DPS = 2071
Gun 2 with 33% speed powerup-- 5.4 x .67 = 3.6. DPS = 2678

So, guess what-- the faster gun with a speed powerup wins.

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BlasterForHire wrote:
i'm going against you two.. I say speed slice/damage powerup, or damage slice, speed powerup; she won't hit the cap with a damage slice/damage powerup.

at +90, a 7.4 gun shoots strafe2 at 2.6 secs each... that's a 62% damage reduction over capped shots.

c'mon guys..

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Only if they are doing the same damage. Which isn't true since we are talking about increase the damage of one over the other. We have to figure the average DPS. Lets say the it's a 200/400 T21 ( I know the min is higher than normal but makes the calculations a bit easier). The average damage is 300. At the speed cap that gives an average DPS of 300.

But lets make it slower and with damage slice/powerup. Lets say you get 30% slice and powerup. That comes out at 507 average.

Lets get a 30% speed slice and powerup on that weapon and the 7.4 drops to 3.63. Or 0.36 after the speed mods.

Now the 7.4 weapon at +90 speed makes it 0.74 speed. Round up to the speed cap. That is with no specials. Now lets look at two of the more common specials at Master. HS2 and SS2. Their delays, according to the FAQ is 1.75 and 3.5 respectively. That means here is the average DPS on those two weapons.

The speed slice will fire HS at the speed cap. Which means average DPS of 300 * 2.5 (HS2 damage multiplier) * 1.5 (base attack mod). That comes to 1125 average DPS.

On SS2 that weapon will fire at .36 * 3.5 (SS2 speed mod) = 1.26 seconds. Damage would be ( 300 * 5 *1.5 ) / 1.26 = 1786 average DPS.

The damage sliced weapon is as follows.

HS2 fires HS2 at 0.74 * 1.75 = 1.295 seconds. Average DPS is ( 507 * 2.5 * 1.5 ) / 1.295. Average DPS is 1468 with HS2.

SS2 fires at 0.74 * 3.5 = 2.59 . Average DPS is ( 507 * 5 * 1.5 ) / 2.59. Average DPS would be 1468.

If we compromised and did a speed slice and damge powerup (or vice versa) you come out with the following.

HS2 fires at .518 *1.75 = 1.0 (cap). Avg DPS ( 390 * 2.5 * 1.5 ) / 1 = 1462.

SS2 firest at 0.518 * 3.5 = 1.813. Avg DPS ( 390 * 5 * 1.5 ) / 1.813 = 1613

So the speed/damage combo is the best compromise but it is going to depend on the base speed. As the starting speed of the weapon drops lower than our 7.4 example, the damage/damage combo becomes the better choice. So it really depends on what special you are using and the base speed of the weapon.

As you can see, the damage/damage combo wins with HS2 over the other two. While loosing out on SS2. The reason being the much lower delay mod in HS2. So as the base speed decreases, the difference also decreases exponentialy.

With this example and this base speed. The damage/damage combo is less than 1% better than the damage/speed and 30% better than speed/speed with HS2. With SS2 speed/speed is 11% better than damage/speed and 22% better than damage/damage.

The best tactic would therefore be to have two rifles. One speed/speed the other damage/damage. Use the speed/speed when using high delay attacks. Use the damage/damage when using lower delay mod attacks.

Though you may not want to do this with the new weapon delay thing. In which case the damage/speed compromise will work, depending on the base speed of the weapon as stated above.

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CamiGreen wrote:

Thank you all for the Very Detailed info. I normally don't use power ups on my rifles, but I think I'm gonna have to added some now. I will have to do some In Game testing to make my final desision but I will still keep both in my inventory for any situation.

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One word of warning. Slicing, powerups, and using specials is suppose to increase the decay rate also. Though you should still get plenty of use out of your weapon.

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BlasterForHire wrote:

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Casaad wrote:

Damage sliced > all

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you're misguided if you think that's always true. it's not.

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