Rifleman Archive

Thread: I am sick of all the nerf talks: all you need to know about rifleman and how to take them out

KiernanDeschain
Fri Apr 23, 2004 7:42 pm
#1


Fist of all this is my roomates account. I play Kwisatz on the Valcyn server. I can't post with my account for some reason. Second I don't spell check so take it easy on the spelling flames ; )


Here are the pro's and con's of the Rifleman proffession from my perspective.


Rifleman is for the most part a working proffession. They have a couple of damage types to choose from including the almighty ap 1 jawa ion rifle. They also have the ability to target, not just hit,the unhealable mind pool. Their speed bonuses let them hit the 1 second speed cap. They have the highest armor piercing weapon for ranged combat the T21 witch does ap3 and has huge base damage stats.


Rifleman also has the least defences of any class for states. They cannot apply any states except dizzy. Their weapons and specials take away from the mind pool. They have terrible point blank attack mods. They have little accuarcy while moving. This gives them terrible odds of hitting anything moving up close. They can't do kinetic damage witch makes alot of targets for PvE impossible to take down.


Ithink that covers most of the arguments on both sides. Now what does this mean? I hope to start a thread that will discuss these issues in a clear and concise manner. If both sides just complain back and forth the devs will decide what is best. Do you really want that to happen? Or do u want your input to count. If you chose the latter, please read on and feel free to contribute to the discussion. Remember, if your words are the only thing that people will judge you by. If you whine like a child people will ignore your post or treat you like a child whenthey respond.


Now why are rifleman so powerful? The main reason is that they are always prepared. They have found out how to maximize their stregths and minimize their weakness. Some of that is part of the game design and some is not.


They were the first to use moun gold as a base stapple of their proffession. Why, because they had to. Their weapon attack costs made it neccessary to do it. They are not all powerful with rifleman alone. They usally team it up with TKM or CM. Another step in the preparation. They either get great defences or more attacking power with these proffessions. They did thier homework people don't blame them for it. And as far as saying they have *blank* skill points invested in there proffession I should be equall to them...don't forget to add the points they spend on the secondary proffessions. They invest more of their skill points in combat and should see a return on investment. This holds true except for comando (that proffession is just plain broke) and BH witch should be filed under "needs some love with all the invested skill pts".They also choose the right power ups for their weapons as well,30% max and15% min are not the only stats on these items people! They have food for extra stats as well. Doc buffs andgood stun composite are availible to anyone and are a must for pvp. Any Rifleman who is serious about pvp will have all of the above and maybe dancer and musican buffs on top. If you don't have Doc buffs and to a lesser degree mind buffs, stun layered composite, a variety of food and drink (once again brandy and canape are not the only choices out there, if you don't know this find out and you will be spending less time flat on your back!), or a semi combat template you have no bussinesscomplaing about losing in pvp! You are going up agaist players who are well prepared and know what they are doing. In my mind that is the most evil combate templateyou can possibly have.


Now to game design. Some of the balancing issues are valid and are needed and they will be changed. First of all the speed equation. It is wrong. If you look at the weapons high damage is often offset by slow speed. Weapons were never intended to fire at such great speed. The mods to speed lets u fire a weapon that is 6.0 speed with a "insert special delay here" at 1.0 seconds or "the speed cap". This is due to the fact that the speed curve is not linear, its exponential. Any weapon can be fired at 1.0 with a 100 mod to speed regardless to the delay on the special. This is going to be fixed the devs know it is a problem. But, give the devs a break. Alot more goes into this than u may think. Writting code for games is not easy and they have to completly change part of the game without messing up the rest. They only get one shot at fixing it so they want to do it right or there will be hell to pay because most of the subscribers will quit the game. I am willing to wait it out for things to be done right instead of it being rushed and incomplete. If it is done incomplete, minus a few tweeks, I assure you I will be the first to quit the game. In the mean time i belive that they are going to implement a 3 second cap for Rifleman and that will definatly bring some much needed balance. With this their damage will be cut by 2/3 while pistols stay the same and carbineers get cut by 1/2. This should even things out untill the balance happens. The game was rushed into live before it was ready and tested fully. Don't blame the devs for this, the decision was made by the people signing the devs checks, not them. So if you want to blame someone for this leave the devs out of it and blame the executives who rushed the game into live. They are getting it from both ends. We complain about the game, their bosses complain to them about everything else. Anyone who has a job knows this situation well and how bad it sucks! Devs and especialy TH, i feel your pain being stuck in the middle. Now this is for all the 13 year olds out there , You know nothing about whats its like in the real world. Stop posting! You have no comprehension about anything nor do u have real life experence to back it up. You are wasting the devs time and diverting it for more important issues. /end Dennis Miller style rant. For all of you who pay for the game with the money you earn. I know it is frustrating paying for a product that is incomplete, but i feel that the game is going to get much better very quickly. Please stick with it untill the combat balance goes through, or at least come back and check it out when it is finally done.


Part II takeing on the rifleman.


"Every battle is one before it is started". This is from Sun Tzu The Art of War. It was written about 2700 years ago and it is just as realevent today as it was when it was written. You can't log on and beat someone who does twice the preparation as you do. It just won't happen. Lets assume that you have taken the time to get all the materials you need to compete with everyone else on the same level, oh wait that will never happen! Someone will always have a better weapon, better buffs, get a few higher rolls on the random number generator, dodge your KD combo, ect...But, if you are prepared well you should win 50% of the time. Ask yourself this question, Do I want to play a game that i win everytime with no effort? My answer in hell no! I want a challenge! So you should never win everytime. If you do average prep you should win 50% of the time no more no less. Having done more prep should entitle you to more victories, but u will never find the "I win every time" combination.


With this in mind now ask yourself, Do I really know my proffession? Just because you wear the master tag of a proffession does not mean that you are a master of it. Most of us have "grinded" up to master killing the same NPC/creatures over and over again. If you have done this, you have learned only alittle about your proffession. Let me guess, you chose critters/NPCs that were vulnerable to your damage types and were easy kills that gave great experience? I know I did You still have to test yourself agaist targets that have the potential to kill you once you are master. Go looking for the big bad and try to kill it! Try different tatics, combos, food combinations to see if you can take it down. Now, bring a friend to the same target. See what you work together and play off your strenths and weaknesses. Rinse and repeat with different combinations. Do this enough times and you will acually know how to use your master tag solo and in groups. Now battle in pvp and see how it goes but, remember pvp is harder than pve and there will be a learning curve on what to do and what not to do.


Now your asking yourself "I thought this part was supposed to tell me how to take down a rifleman"? Well, your opponent knows all that information and has done all his prep. If not, you will take him out with ease congrats on your victory! Take a look again at the advantages and disadvantages of the rifleman. Now commit them to memory. Get close, apply states if you can, keepmoving, and above all play to your strengths and his weaknesses. Its as simple as that. You will be generally be fighting the same players alot. If he/she is mind poisons you, guess what he is a Rifleman/CM. If he sees a red dot 80m away he throws a mind poison C and runs twards you to get in range for mind shot 3. You have two choices. Run or fight. He has the advantage since you are poisoned,but he is running at you. This means that if you decide to fight you can close quickly but hitting a /follow;/burstrun macro you should already have on your hotbar. He is running (hopefully burst running to close the gap, since he has learned to do that before you get away) and his accuacy is low because he is running, you are burstrunning (thus lowering his accuacy even more), have taken a muon gold and a combination of food and drink (only you will know whats best for your profession through trial and error), your chances are just about even (considering u have a sliced for effectiveness psg for 61% against stun & energy now that they will be working!). Now he can't deek you out because you /followed. It is even now! You are at his worst range moving while he is moving. He can't escape, now do your best moves and combos. Now its a fight to the death. Win or lose its your best shot at a victory. Also remember the players name and fighting style. He might always use anti KD food, so don't waste your time with trying to KD you. If he used KD food he must have neglected something else, find out what it was as exploit it. Try differnt tatics too, they will not work agaistall but u can't defend everything at the same time. And above all, get to know your opponents and you will do much better in pvp!


This is a verysimplified way at looking at a battle. But you get an idea of what to do. You have to do the work to be prepared to fight. You have to assume that the other guy did. This kind of planning is overlooked by alot of players and the advice is good for any proffesion and all players. I just hope all the 13 year olds out there can understand, /sigh i don't think they will. Feel free to paste it onto other proffession boards if you feel this post is worthy enough.


Kwisatz





======================================================================
Kiernan Deschain
Scoundrel, Card Player, Gunslinger and Smuggler's Alliance Ace
Captain of the YT-1300 "Serenity' and pilot of the KSE Firespray "Masuimi Max"

J'axxon Deschain
Jedi Adept and pilot of the Eta-2 Actis "Bogan Nemesis"

The'man Behindthecurtain
Master Shipwright, Architect, and Artisan
CEO and Director of R&D, Waystation Construction Systems
KiernanDeschain
Fri Apr 23, 2004 7:57 pm
#2

I forgot to say, don't nerf the rifleman learn how to fight him!



======================================================================
Kiernan Deschain
Scoundrel, Card Player, Gunslinger and Smuggler's Alliance Ace
Captain of the YT-1300 "Serenity' and pilot of the KSE Firespray "Masuimi Max"

J'axxon Deschain
Jedi Adept and pilot of the Eta-2 Actis "Bogan Nemesis"

The'man Behindthecurtain
Master Shipwright, Architect, and Artisan
CEO and Director of R&D, Waystation Construction Systems
JerikArca
Fri Apr 23, 2004 8:17 pm
#3

Well written, but even a Carb King (like me) with a 200-450 dmg Elite Carbine which Ifire at the speed cap can't bust through 90% Comp armor. The poison and mind shots just keep wearing you down until there's nothing left. I beleive that a general reduction in armor ratings (to balance stun dmg vs regular) is needed, and the correct speed cap installed.



"If we make enough of a fuss we might get the attention of the devs."
"Long Live the Empire"
Colonel Nom Anor
Oby-Won
Fri Apr 23, 2004 8:19 pm
#4

mother of.....that is the smartest thing i have ever read. you are absolutly correct



_________________________
what have i missed?
KiernanDeschain
Fri Apr 23, 2004 8:52 pm
#5

Jerikarca 90% composite is not that common. U have to get a 35% effective slice on 67% base armor to get it. To have a whole suit of it is unheard of you would have to lice hundreds of pieces of armor to get that. Granted u would just have to have the legs chest and helmet to besemi effective, but i don't think it is standard issue stuff. But like i said it all comes down to prep. How many credits did it take to make the armor, credits to buy it, and time to slice it? Do you remember the name of the player that you fought? You might want to avoid him next time or call in backup and attack from 3/4 different directions so he can't area you all in one shot. Sounds like he/she would be confident/overconfident in his armor/poisons. He probably will just sit in one spot and wait to take player out. If you want to take out a player that has this kind of equipment you'll have to work hard to do it. You know he ran missions till his eyes bled, mined materials/harvested resources, or sold loot to get it. either way, he did alot of work to get that armor and you'll have to do alot of work to kill him. Maybe you should try to put a dizzy state on him and suppression fire 2. Your weapon is good enough with arp 2 do dish out some damage. What other fighting skills do u have? He has a good templete. You'll have to try to match it with some melle counter attack from whatever stacks with carbineer. He put his skill pts in CM/Rifleman witch should tell you he can be KD easily with out food. And his defences are lacking so he can be hit with multiple states too.



======================================================================
Kiernan Deschain
Scoundrel, Card Player, Gunslinger and Smuggler's Alliance Ace
Captain of the YT-1300 "Serenity' and pilot of the KSE Firespray "Masuimi Max"

J'axxon Deschain
Jedi Adept and pilot of the Eta-2 Actis "Bogan Nemesis"

The'man Behindthecurtain
Master Shipwright, Architect, and Artisan
CEO and Director of R&D, Waystation Construction Systems
Jmercenary
Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:53 pm
#6

Its the best ranged profession mixed with another profession hands down right now. Pistoleer and Carbineer don't even come close, thats your balance. This is coming from a Master Rifleman btw.



Mercenary

"Its daddy sh!thead now wheres my bourbon."
kpr
Sat Apr 24, 2004 2:36 am
#7

Your sick of all the nerf calling and here you are calling for one.


First off DPS is not the end all of proffession balance. You have to take into effect the Defense Mods (and not just ranged either, Im talking about the useful ones like kd),specials (like delay moves and kd moves, rifleman have neither), secondary defense skills (like dodge, which is 100x's more useful than block), ham costs (ours are much higher than anybody elses, granted buffs have ruined the effect but that is not the fault of the rifleman class), and stacking (rifleman can only grab classes to help defensively or to complement it like doc, while pistols and carbines can do bh and go offensively)



As for fireing at 1 second well youll need master marksman to do that with most shots, and youll not get there with our best (straff 2) without some speed tapes.


One last point to make out, why isnt our rifles able to fire as fast as everyone else, its got the same trigger, and ive alway been able to fire my rifle just as fast as any pistol out there. And no Im not a noob 13 yr old who comes to the board, Ive fired many types of rifles, my father has a collection of them and I spent 4 years in the USMC. My M-16 A2 could outshot any pistol out there and Ill hit way more often too, even at close range, were taught how to fire up close with them. So it wouldnt matter if you were 2m infront of me or 500m away, my target would be dead.



Im not saying that Pistols and Carbines need some fixes.


Pistols need more ranged defense, there specials to work, and a little more speed.


Carbines need more accuracy, some defense (something like 50 range and melee would be good) and a stun weapon.


And for your info there is no speed cap coming into play.


Why dont you wait till the combat revamp happens before you start posting nerf cries again.





Nevek
Master Rifleman(retired)
Master Marksman(retired)
Master Creature Handler(retired)
Master TKA (retired)
Master Squad Leader(retired)
Master Commando(retired)
Master Medic(retired)
Master Doctor(retired)
Master Swordsman(retired)
master lightsaber/master enhancer/healer4/4/0/0
kpr
Sat Apr 24, 2004 2:39 am
#8

sorry about the double post, it was acting weird.



Nevek
Master Rifleman(retired)
Master Marksman(retired)
Master Creature Handler(retired)
Master TKA (retired)
Master Squad Leader(retired)
Master Commando(retired)
Master Medic(retired)
Master Doctor(retired)
Master Swordsman(retired)
master lightsaber/master enhancer/healer4/4/0/0
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